Kristel Acevedo: A Way in the Wilderness

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:10] Speaker B: Welcome to Becoming Church, the podcast where we discuss how the message and movement of Jesus is not just about becoming Christians, but about becoming the church. I'm your host, Kristin Mochler Young, and my guest today is Christelle Acevedo. Christelle is a ministry leader and Bible study writer, and today she's leaning on her Nicaraguan background with a new study that's available in both English, English, and Spanish. It's called A Way in the Wilderness. And it's an excellent study to use on your own or in a group because it's got video elements, personal reflection prompts, and discussion questions. But Christelle is here, so I'll let her tell you more about it. All right, Christelle, welcome. Welcome back, actually, because you've been on the podcast before. [00:00:57] Speaker A: I have, yes. Yes. [00:00:59] Speaker B: Last time, I think we were talking about three big questions. [00:01:03] Speaker A: That's right. And now we're gonna talk about the wilderness. What a time. [00:01:10] Speaker B: What a time. Not only are we gonna talk about the wilderness, and we are, but this is a Bible study experience that you put out bilingually. Correct? This is your first one. [00:01:22] Speaker A: Yeah. So technically, you know, I wrote a Bible study years ago that came out in English and in Spanish, and it was my first time doing that. [00:01:31] Speaker B: Okay. [00:01:32] Speaker A: And I'm really glad that I was able to have that experience because I feel like it prepared me for this one where it's like, okay, the world. This is. The world is going to read this one. This is going to be like, you know, IVP's putting this out, so, you know. Yeah. And. But yeah, it's my first time writing in English and in Spanish in this big format. So it's something that I never imagined that I would do, and I'm really glad that God has given me the opportunity to do it. [00:02:03] Speaker B: Oh, good. Well, I. We are going to get into the study and talk about the whole thing, but I want to play a quick game with you. Really quick. [00:02:09] Speaker A: Yes. [00:02:11] Speaker B: Because I think it's so fun and special that you speak two languages, because I do not. I took a couple years of French in high school, and my husband is fluent in French. And so every now and then, like, when we're at dinner with his family, you know, people will say things, and I'm like, I can pick up a couple of the things. [00:02:30] Speaker A: Right. [00:02:30] Speaker B: I can't speak in the language. [00:02:32] Speaker A: Oh, man. That's okay. Google Translate. [00:02:35] Speaker B: Yes. Yes. All right, so I'm gonna give you. I thought this would be fun. Right. So I'm gonna give you a spiritual phrase in English, and then I want you to translate it to Spanish and not just translate it, but tell me which version has better vibes. Because, like, just because, you know, just because it sounds different, it feels different too, right? [00:02:56] Speaker A: Definitely. [00:02:57] Speaker B: So the first one, very English spiritual, you know, phrase is just the idea that God is with you. How do you say that in Spanish? [00:03:04] Speaker A: Yeah. You would say, dios esta contigo. [00:03:08] Speaker B: Contigo. I'm gonna see. I'm gonna try and repeat it. Kristen, stop. Yeah. Which one has better vibes? [00:03:19] Speaker A: You know, simply because of the phrase contigo. I like that. I just like the way it sounds. And it's one of my favorite phrases in Spanish or my favorite words is saying contigo. I just. I don't know. I just feel like it's. It's because it means, like, you and I together, and I don't know, like, so I like. I like the Spanish one for that one. For sure. [00:03:42] Speaker B: Yeah, I was gonna. I was gonna give that point to Spanish, too. All right, how about this one? Be still and. No. [00:03:50] Speaker A: Okay, so you can translate this very literally. But then I also looked it up in the Bible to see how they have translated. So you can say. And that's literally like. Okay, but then that comes from, I think, Psalm 46, 10. And so I looked it up, and it says. And this is God talking, right? Because. So this is, like, the Lord, right? And it says. And I just like that because there's. You can translate things literally word for word, or you can translate how it's meant to. To feel. [00:04:32] Speaker B: Right? [00:04:33] Speaker A: And so I like that one. The. The. How it feels more than, like, the literal translation. [00:04:39] Speaker B: Honestly, I picked this one specifically for that reason, because I was really curious to see what you would do, because, yeah, you can translate but be still and no word for word, but, like, it means at least you know, to people that know that phrase. It means so much more than just, like, be still and know, like. [00:04:53] Speaker A: Right. [00:04:54] Speaker B: A lot more to unpack there. [00:04:55] Speaker A: Exactly. Exactly. So point to Spanish once again. [00:04:58] Speaker B: Okay. All right. How about grace upon grace? [00:05:02] Speaker A: Okay, this one's very similar. It's gracia sobre gracia. [00:05:06] Speaker B: Okay, that's it. [00:05:08] Speaker A: So I don't know. Well, let's. Let's give it to English, you know, let's. Let's let them have a point. Right? [00:05:17] Speaker B: All right. Two more on earth as it is in heaven. That's a very churchy phrase. [00:05:21] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. This one is enlara como en el cielo. So I know, like, to me, I kind of like the English One, just because that's. I. Although I speak Spanish, most of my theological and biblical learning has been in English. And I'm used to that phrase. Like, that phrase is so powerful. And I've said it so many times. I've read it so much on earth as it is in heaven. And then so when I see it in Spanish in la tierra comon el cielo, it sounds almost more scientific to me. [00:05:58] Speaker B: Okay. [00:05:58] Speaker A: You know, like, yeah, is like, it's Earth, but, like, it's like the Earth. You know what I mean? Like the planet Earth. [00:06:05] Speaker B: Right. [00:06:06] Speaker A: And when I think about Earth in English, I think of it less scientific, and I think of it more as, like, oh, like where we live and like this. The realm, you know? And then cielo is like. I also. That's also the word for sky. So then I think about sky. I don't necessarily think about heaven. [00:06:24] Speaker B: Sure. [00:06:24] Speaker A: So I'll give this one to English. [00:06:27] Speaker B: Okay, we're at a tie here. [00:06:28] Speaker A: We're at a tie. [00:06:30] Speaker B: Good thing. I have one more. I'm glad I didn't even number. [00:06:32] Speaker A: Okay, let's see. [00:06:33] Speaker B: All right, here's the last one. And I already have my. From the little bit that I've heard of the Spanish language. I think I already know what I'm going to give this to. But let's see. [00:06:41] Speaker A: Okay. Okay. [00:06:43] Speaker B: Right. The last one is the phrase let there be light. [00:06:45] Speaker A: Okay. Let there be light would translate to que a luce. [00:06:51] Speaker B: See, I just like the word loose first. [00:06:54] Speaker A: Yeah, I do like loose. I think I like it in Spanish. I don't know. I like it. How did you. What did you have in your. In your brain? [00:07:03] Speaker B: My friend Quinisha has a tattoo that. Something about loose. And so I knew. I already knew that that was a Spanish word for. And it's L, U Z. Right. Isn't there a Z in it? That just feels like extra. And so I like that. [00:07:17] Speaker A: I know a Z. Like, when do you ever see Z's in words? Like, almost never. [00:07:21] Speaker B: Right. Oh, well, thank you for, you know, educating us very. Just American English speakers here. [00:07:28] Speaker A: I'm happy to. [00:07:32] Speaker B: You know what's funny is there is. I should have looked up where she's from. I have a couple of different people who follow me on Instagram and I think listen to the show from different countries, and so they will actually come in and comment in Spanish, and so. Which is very cool to me. I have no idea what it says. So then I have to go, like, Google Translate it. [00:07:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:07:52] Speaker B: But I just love that they show up in My Instagram, which is very much all English just in their native language. They're like, this is how I'm gonna respond and leave comments. [00:08:00] Speaker A: And that is so sweet. I love that. Yeah, that's great. [00:08:05] Speaker B: Well, I imagine talking about, you know, translation in your Bible study, that even though you are already fluent in Spanish and you speak Spanish, it wasn't as easy of just like, let me write this Bible study in English and then translate the words. One, one. What was that like? [00:08:21] Speaker A: You know, it was very challenging because to be honest, I have, I in the past have had a lot of hang ups about my Spanish speaking abilities. [00:08:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:08:31] Speaker A: When I was a child, you know, I grew up in an immigrant household. They spoke Spanish, but I felt very self conscious about my pronunciation and sometimes I would forget the words for things because I would go to school and everything would be in English, you know, so that was what I was used to. And so I remember feeling self conscious about speaking in Spanish. And I remember my parents trying to enforce a rule at our house that they would, we were only allowed to speak in Spanish. And I stubborn, my stubborn me said, well, I'm not going to talk anymore. And then I didn't, you know, so. I know. So that kind of backfired on them. But then when I was around nine years old, my grandmother came to live with us and she only speaks Spanish. So at that point I had no choice. Like if I wanted to communicate with my sweet grandma, whom I love, you know, it had to be in Spanish. And that's really honestly what saved me in terms of my Spanish speaking ability. Because I, I wanted to speak with my grandma. Like she's one of the most precious people in my life. And so I'm really glad that she came to live with us and I was able to practice in that way. Nevertheless, you know, I still, I know that I don't speak Spanish as perfectly as let's say my mom and dad do because I have grown up in a, in a bicultural world. You know, I am a second generation. I'm in this world and I'm in that world and I just don't have the same fluency as they do. And so I, I have had a lot of insecurities about that. But there are two things that have helped me. Number one is Selena. I don't know if you know Selena y los Dinos, you know, like Selena Quintanilla from back in the 90s. Yeah, a singer. [00:10:18] Speaker B: Well, the singer, right? [00:10:19] Speaker A: Yeah, the singer. She grew up speaking English and didn't learn Spanish. Until she was. Started singing in Spanish. [00:10:26] Speaker B: No way. I didn't realize that. [00:10:27] Speaker A: I know a lot of people think she was always fluent, but no, she only spoke English until they formed this band, and then she started singing in Spanish. So her Spanish was not great either. Okay. And she went on a famous talk show called Christina. All the Latinas know about that. [00:10:41] Speaker B: Okay. [00:10:42] Speaker A: And she was talking to her, and she messed up a word. She said the wrong word for something, and. And Christina, the. The host kind of, like, stopped her and said, oh, you mean this and that. And, you know, like, not in the kindest way, to be honest. And so Selena was like, yeah, but you understood what I was saying, and, like, just kept it moving, you know what I mean? And so that when I saw that interview, I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, yeah, like, if people understand what I'm saying, who cares if I say it perfectly or not? Like, yeah, the point is that I'm communicating to the best of my ability and we're understanding each other. So that was the first thing. The second thing that helped me is my dad, actually. I told him about all these insecurities that I was feeling, and he has kind of the opposite in that when he speaks in English, he feels insecure because his first language is Spanish, and sometimes he mispronounces things. And he's got tons of stories of when they first came to the United States, and he said the wrong thing and people laughed, and you know what I mean? [00:11:38] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:11:38] Speaker A: And sometimes it's just funny. You got to laugh at yourself. [00:11:41] Speaker B: Right? [00:11:41] Speaker A: But he does feel that insecurity. But he told me that one time he was at work, he. He's an architect by trade, and he. They were living in Texas at this time, and this American coworker told him, oh, my gosh, I love your accent. Like, it's so cool to talk to you and hear your accent. And I just really appreciate it so much. And that helped my dad. Like, that healed something in him because he had felt insecure about his accent. But here, like, this person was appreciating his English speaking and the uniqueness of it. And so I thought, well, it can be the same for me. Like, hopefully when people hear me speaking in Spanish, they'll hear an accent, and they won't be like, oh, she doesn't know what she's doing. But they'll hear. But instead, they'll hear the story behind the accent. The fact that I grew up in a bicultural environment, the fact that I grew up mostly speaking English, but that I'm still retaining that, that piece of my, of my heritage and my culture the best that I can. So I think I'm slowly letting go of all those insecurities and just allowing the Lord to work in and through me. Not expecting perfection at all, but just letting, letting God determine the fruit of my obedience to even do this in both languages, you know? [00:12:56] Speaker B: Yeah. And I would think people listening could relate to that, even if it wasn't a language thing. You know, I know when I get to preach, like, if I stumble over my words, I used to really kick myself because I was like, ah, people are not going to take you seriously if you, you know, misspeak or you stumble or you say something wrong. And then I just was like, okay, if, if somebody listening is going to focus on the one word that I said wrong and completely miss the point of the message. [00:13:22] Speaker A: Right. [00:13:22] Speaker B: That's actually a them problem. Like that. [00:13:25] Speaker A: Exactly. You know, a hundred percent. A hundred percent. Yeah. That's so good. [00:13:31] Speaker B: Well, knowing that you were going to publish in English and Spanish at the same time, did it change how you wrote the study as you were going along? [00:13:38] Speaker A: Yeah. And yes, definitely. And this is something that even my publish, my editor encouraged me with is to be fully authentically who I am, that I don't. I can write from my perspective and share my stories as a Latina, as someone who grew up in an immigrant household, as someone who, like that shaped my, my worldview. And so I didn't shy away from sharing those parts of myself in the English and then of course that translate to the Spanish. So, like, it's really cool to be able to, to write as me and not have to feel like I have to write as someone else, you know? [00:14:15] Speaker B: Yeah. I love that. If you're in the Charlotte area, we've got two different opportunities for you to get more involved with a multi ethnic community. Christelle is the discipleship director at Transformation Church in South Carolina. And I'm one of the pastors of Mosaic Church here in Charlotte, North Carolina. At Mosaic, we have a community called Esperanza Paritotos, which translates to hope for all. Because we believe that the hope of Jesus is for all people. Our Esperanza community is for people who maybe have a Latinx heritage, who speak Spanish or honestly have neither of those, but just love the culture. This community gets together to eat good food, go salsa dancing and celebrate in a variety of other ways. If you're interested in joining, reach out to us by sending us an email. At infoosaicchurch tv, we'd be thrilled to get you connected. I love that. Well, it's so funny because I texted you, I was like, hey, can you send me, like a PDF version? And then look what came last night. [00:15:23] Speaker A: Yay. [00:15:25] Speaker B: Yay. I do have it. Thank you, ivp, for sending me this Bible study. But let's talk about it. It's a Bible study on people who have faced their own wilderness stories. So how would you describe a wilderness story or a wilderness season for somebody that's listening? [00:15:42] Speaker A: So the wilderness is essentially a season of life in which you feel lost, you feel forgotten. You feel that maybe God does not see you or has forgotten about you or. Or doesn't care about you. You feel spiritually dry. Just like when you're in a desert, you're, like, thirsting for something, but you're not being able to quench that thirst, and it's hard. And it can last a week, a month. It can last years, you know, and you might come back around to another wilderness season. Like, you might leave a wilderness season and come back around again. So, yeah, that's. That's what the wilderness is. It's not. It's not fun looking at it from the outside and you're like, oh, I don't want to do that. [00:16:29] Speaker B: Right. Yeah, well. And I like that you said too. You know, it could. You could, like, find your way back and then be in the wilderness again. Which doesn't necessarily mean the same wilderness, but. [00:16:39] Speaker A: Correct. [00:16:40] Speaker B: In another. [00:16:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:42] Speaker B: Similar season. [00:16:43] Speaker A: Correct. [00:16:44] Speaker B: I think that gives people some comfort of knowing if they feel like they've, like, walked through it and they're in it again, like, it. You're going to come through it again. [00:16:51] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. And that's one of the things that I even discovered as I was studying about the wilderness is I. I was really petty about it. I had gone through my own wilderness season. I was like, lord, this was a waste of time. Like, we could have fast forwarded through this. But then as I was studying, I realized that God is with us in the wilderness. [00:17:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:12] Speaker A: And that's really the. The key that it's. It's hard and yeah, it sucks. Like, that's not even mince words. That's not like, let's not over spiritualize. That's not like, oh, let's not spiritually bypass. It's like, no, it sucks. Okay, it sucks. [00:17:24] Speaker B: But. [00:17:25] Speaker A: But there's purpose in it, and God is with us in it. So that's. That's what makes the difference. [00:17:30] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. What was the first wilderness story that kind of inspired you even to look into this theme. And I know that you have your own, but, like, what was the first story that you were like, let's do a study on this. [00:17:40] Speaker A: Yeah, so it was actually John the Baptist I was reading. This was back. Yeah, this was back in 2020, when we were all in the wilderness of the pandemic. Yeah. We were all collectively in the wilderness. And I was reading in my Bible, and Luke is my favorite gospel. I come back to it again and again. Yeah, it's. It's great. And I. In Luke, chapter one, verse 80, it talks about John the Baptist, and it says that the child was in the wilderness. He grew up in the wilderness. And it says he was spiritually strong. I read that, and I was like, wait a minute. Because I thought the wilderness was just a sucky place. But you're telling me that John the Baptist was in the wilderness and he was spiritually strong. It just. It really. Like, I got my journal out. I started writing. I started praying to God, being like, what does this mean? Tell me right now. You know, And I started really looking into it. That was the first verse that really changed my perspective. And I started learning more about John the Baptist. And he's so. He's so cool. Like, he. Man. He knew his assignment. He was. He stuck to it. When he saw Jesus, he recognized Jesus, the Messiah, and he pointed people to Jesus. And I was like, that's what I want. I want to have that spiritual grit just like John the Baptist had. And then it made me curious to see, like, well, who else was in the wilderness and how did God meet them there, and what did they learn? How did they change? How did they grow? And that's. That's. I went down that rabbit trail, you. [00:19:07] Speaker B: Know, did you find another story? Was there another person that. As you started studying this, you were like, oh, I love. I love this person's story. Or you kind of, like, found yourself connected to it in a way that maybe you didn't expect so many. [00:19:20] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. I would say the two that impacted me the most personally was first Hagar, because her story is just so. It's one of those that is hard to read. You know, like, you don't just read about Hagar and be like, okay, that's great. Let's move on. You know, like, you stop and you're like, wait a minute. This woman was abused. This woman was neglected. This woman was tossed aside like trash. And. But yet God met her in the wilderness, and she's the first person to give God a Name which is Elroy, the God who sees. So how mind blowing is that, that this woman, this. This immigrant woman, this Egyptian woman, gave God a name when he hadn't had one before and that he personally ministered to her. Like, I found that to be so powerful. And. And she's the one who I write about in the Bible study, went back to the wilderness. So she had two wilderness experiences that we read about in Scripture, which is when I started was like, oh, yeah, I might come back around to this, you know, but. But God is still going to be there and he's still going to give me bread and water, you know? [00:20:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:29] Speaker A: The second one that impacted me personally was the story of Elijah the Prophet. And his impacted me because he was. He had this spiritual high. Like, he went against the. The prophets of baal and fire rained down from heaven, like, whoa, that's cool. And. But right after he has this huge victory, he goes into the wilderness and he's like, God, I'm done. Like, take me out. I can't do this anymore. And he was, like, despondent. He was like. He just slept and just laid in a cave and. And when I read his story, I don't want to, like, put stuff into scripture that's not there. But to me, it looked like how I felt when I was depressed. Okay. I had experienced postpartum depression, and then I had experienced depression later on in life as well. And that's what it looked like to me. I'm like, oh, my gosh. Like, that's. That's what it feels like. And the way God said, take a nap. [00:21:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:24] Speaker A: Like, you know what? Go back to sleep. You're going to need your strength. Sleep right now. And I was like, yeah, man, sometimes you need to sleep. And then God, like, gives him bread and water. He's like, take this. You're going to need this. You're going to need this sustenance because you're going to keep going. Man, that was so powerful for me to read that. It's okay for me to rest. It's okay for me to take care of myself and nourish myself, because God's not done with me yet. I'm still alive. God's not done. He has more ministry for me to do, and I can keep going, but I can take the time I need to rest and take care of myself, too. [00:21:57] Speaker B: Yeah. I don't think you're adding things to scripture when you can personally relate and wonder. Right. I love a holy imagination moment where it's like, I wonder if this could be this or this could be this or. I really think that that's why, you know, people talk about the Bible being like, alive and active. I don't think that you're adding, I think it's Holy Spirit going, hey, I want to make sure that you relate in this very specific way so that I know, like, God's trying to tell you something through this person or story, you know? [00:22:28] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. That's good. [00:22:30] Speaker B: Well, how have you, you, you mentioned it briefly, but when you were in your own wilderness season, what was that experience like? And how did God meet you there. [00:22:42] Speaker A: When it was hard to find him? Yeah, I mean, I would say the first time that I entered the wilderness was just after I had graduated from seminary in 2010. My husband and I were getting ready to move to Denver, Colorado to help plant a church and I was pregnant. Yay. So we're moving across the country, we're starting a new church, we're moving away from family and friends, and then we're going to have a baby. And it should have been probably one of the most joyful times of my life, all this new adventure, but it ended up being really hard. Partly because of the postpartum depression that I experienced and partly because, like, I couldn't find a job. It's so hard for pregnant women to find jobs, you know, and so I couldn't find a job. Yeah. So I ended up just becoming a stay at home mom. So I was alone a lot with a baby and that didn't sleep well, would cry a lot. And I love him and I love my son. Like, so it's not. The more I, I reflect back on that time. It wasn't his fault. Obviously he was just a baby, but just the situation of being confined and isolated was really hard for me. And then I had all these aspirations for ministry. That's why I had gone to seminary in the first place. But, like, there weren't a lot of opportunities that were open to me. And so from there, you know, we ended up moving back to Miami and there was just a lot of mess and hurt that I experienced in that season. And so I just felt like it was years of unmet expectations, mental health struggles, financial difficulties. And it wasn't until I left, we came and we moved to South Carolina and joined Transformation Church. And I started working there that I felt myself coming out of this wilderness and being like, okay, this is a new season, like, new opportunities, new opportunities for growth. Like, not even just like, for me to lead, but like, for me to be Poured into and. And challenged, you know, in a good way. And so I felt myself coming out of that wilderness. But I still had a lot of resentment, you know, because I'm like, what was all that? Lord, what was all that? Like, I wanted, like, that was a lot. It was a long. Was years. I felt like I couldn't really enjoy being a mom in that time. Like, I mourned that. Even to this day, I mourn that a little bit like that when my kids are babies. I could barely, like, enjoy it because of all the depression that was clouding my brain and my heart. And so, yeah, that was my. That was my wilderness season. That was. That was long and hard. [00:25:28] Speaker B: Now in those moments, in those years. Not even moments in those years. I know looking back, hindsight is 20 20, right? So it's easy to look back now and be like, God was here and God was here, and maybe God was in antidepressant medication. Like, I don't know exactly what your. Yeah, you know, quote unquote solutions were, but in that season, I'm thinking about people that are listening right now and they're like, no, I'm in it now. Do you think there's a way for them to see that God is actually in it with them or is it this season just, like, so completely different of trying to connect to God and like, lean on God's strength and all of that? [00:26:09] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think one of the things that was a saving grace for me during that season was I joined a small group. [00:26:17] Speaker B: Okay. [00:26:18] Speaker A: And it was literally like I hadn't been in a part of small group for a long time because, you know, when your kids are little bedtime and it's just. It's so hard to, like, get yourself out of the house and all of that. So I hadn't been a part of a small group for a long time, but then my friend who lived across the street said she was going to start a small group and would I want to join it. And literally, what can I say? She lives across the street from me. I'll have to do is walk there, you know. So I said, okay, I'm going to do this. Alex can stay home with the babies. It'll be fine. I'm going to go be a part of the small group. And honestly, that was one of the things that saved me in that season because it was just a group of women who were all going through it in different ways. And we read scripture together, we prayed together. I didn't even, like, if one of us was Going through a hard time, and we didn't want to even participate in the group. All I had to do was sit there and know that. That we're gonna have chocolate chip muffins or, you know, like, and we're gonna get to just have conversation with our friends. And that's what helped me, like, community. Biblical community is so important because there's gonna be times when we feel weak. There's gonna be times where we don't feel like opening the Bible. But, hey, we'll sit there and listen to you read it, you know, or, yeah, you can pray for me. I'll sit here and you pray for me. And it was just so sweet to have that. Those relationships, those friendships in my life where I knew we were centered on Jesus. I knew that they were not going to, like, leave me behind. I knew that they were not going to judge me, you know, that they were just going to be there for me and love me. And there are some difficult things that I went through during that time where I didn't know that there were people that. There were people that I knew I couldn't trust, but I knew I could trust these women to love me, to care for me, to believe me, to support me, and to, like, spur me on, to keep going. So I think biblical community is important. [00:28:12] Speaker B: I love how you described that, too, because I think, especially in the church world, biblical community has this picture of, like, you know, everybody bring your journaling Bible, which is great. Colored pens and all things. And you have to be super challenged, and you have to come with a really insightful thing that God showed you, and you have to pray when you don't feel like it, and you have to kind of perform, in a sense. [00:28:36] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:28:37] Speaker B: But I think that biblical community is more realistically exactly what you described. It's knowing, hey, I'm gonna show up exactly how I am. I haven't showered. I don't feel like praying. I actually don't feel like talking about God or to God today because I'm kind of mad at him or I'm mad at his people and knowing that you can still just be there anyway and that they're not going to try to change your mind or change your emotions. Be like, don't feel like that. Like, Right. None of that. That's actually not biblical community. [00:29:11] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, it was beautiful. And it's. And God has a way of, like, the. The week that I was feeling low, others were not. And the week. The weeks that they were feeling low, I wasn't you know what I mean? So we could, like, God just has a way, like, he's so good, you. [00:29:25] Speaker B: Know, I love it. Well, speaking of friends, I know that you hosted some of your friends on a companion podcast to go along with Away in the Wilderness. [00:29:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:29:36] Speaker B: So I want to know, what is something that someone shared with you there? I think you had six episodes. [00:29:41] Speaker A: Yes. Yes. [00:29:42] Speaker B: What's something that someone shared with you that you are like, oh, I haven't stopped thinking about that. [00:29:46] Speaker A: Okay. This was easy. Okay. They were all great. I mean, I almost cried in every single episode. But Joel Mutamali, that I think, you know, he's a friend of yours as well. Yeah. And yep, he was on and we talked about. He. He brought up this idea of the middle because we talked about the Israelites. The Israelites going around the desert and for, you know, all that time. And he talked about the middle and how. How we find our, like God's people. We find ourselves in the middle a lot. [00:30:18] Speaker B: Okay. [00:30:18] Speaker A: And I kind of equated that to my, like, ethnic identity, which we talked a little bit about at the beginning about how I. I would feel in the middle sometimes of this, like, English speaking American world and this Spanish speaking Latin American world. And I never felt fully a part of either and how confusing and hard that was for me. But now I see that as such a gift, especially being a part of a multi ethnic church, which I know your church is also multi ethnic. And what a gift it is to be. To be able to stand in those middle spaces and reach out to people all around me. [00:30:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:54] Speaker A: And bring them in, you know, to. To be able to understand people, people's different perspectives because I've had to learn how to exist in multiple spaces and. And having that feeling of I don't belong here, but then learning that actually we all belong to God and we belong to each other in this. In this church community. And so that was such an interesting concept that he brought up as. I guess he's writing about stuff in his, you know, he's a writer, he's got his own stuff going on, but he's. That's something that he's been writing and studying about and then being able to like, equate it to my world and how I have been in the middle, but like how we all, as God's people, have this opportunity to be in the middle between spaces and. And bring people in and bring people to God. So I really loved that. [00:31:42] Speaker B: I like that too. I know I'm gonna have to like, simmer on that and be like, what does that mean for me? [00:31:46] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:31:48] Speaker B: And I hope our listener, you know, do the same thing. What I love the most about it is it sounds like it was a perspective shift for you of something that you were like, oh, this is hard. This is a challenge. This is something I struggle with to now, like, what a beautiful gift it is that you get to experience that, you know, And Joel understands that too, with his Indian heritage and definitely all of that. Well, I'll listen to it and I'll link that. I'll link that episode up in the show notes. So people are interested. Yeah, they can go listen to it. Well, Christelle, for people that are in their own wilderness season right now, whether it's something from the Bible study or something that you've just been thinking about, what is something that you would want them to know right now while they're just kind of like, roaming around in it? [00:32:31] Speaker A: I would want them to know that even though it feels like you're lost and even though it feels like you're just roaming around wandering. [00:32:39] Speaker B: Yes. [00:32:39] Speaker A: I want people to know that they actually have victory already. Because what I write about in week six, the final week of the Bible study, is that Jesus went to the wilderness. And when Jesus went to the wilderness, he rewrote everyone's story. He rewrote the story of Adam and Eve wandering in the wilderness because they made the wrong choice and got kicked out of the garden. He rewrote Israelites story of disobedience going to idols over and over again. He wrote all of the. The stories of where things go wrong because he went into the wilderness and he had victory and he used scripture and he walked in the power of the Holy Spirit. And so his victory is our victory. And the same Holy Spirit that empowered Jesus in the wilderness is the same Holy Spirit that we have as well. And so just, I know it can be hard in those seasons where you feel low, but man, if you could set your eyes on Jesus and set your eyes on the victory that he has already won on your behalf, that will be the perspective shift that's going to change the way you walk through this season. Because that's one of the reasons it's called away in the wilderness, is that there is a way in this wilderness. It's not just wandering. There is a path that you can walk through, empowered by the Spirit, so that you can come out on the other side spiritually stronger, that you can have grace and you can have grit in this wilderness season, and that it has not overcome you, but that you have overcome it. [00:34:16] Speaker B: That's good. That's good. Yeah. I mean, I. I love that you brought up a path too, because I do think we have to walk. I do think even when we're in the wilderness, we have the choice. Like, am I going to stand still? And I'm sure there are days of standing still. [00:34:32] Speaker A: You know, I'm being like, hey, listen, Elijah, took a nap. You know, you need a nap and a snack. [00:34:38] Speaker B: But also, I do think we have to actively make the choice of taking a step and saying, this is what faith is like. God, it doesn't make sense. I don't know where you're leading me. I don't know if you're even walking with me. But I am going to choose to believe that there is better for me. And so, yeah, we have to do the work of. Of choosing that. [00:34:57] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. [00:35:00] Speaker B: Well, last question for you, friend, because the podcast is called Becoming Church. How can people listening become the church to the people around them? [00:35:09] Speaker A: Become the church to people around them? I think being the church means a little bit about what I said earlier. You know, loving people where they're at. [00:35:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:20] Speaker A: Praying for people when they don't have the words to pray for themselves. Maybe even reading scripture to them when they don't have the strength to read it themselves. Being a place of belonging, being a place of welcome, being a place of love and grace and pointing them to Jesus. Like, ultimately, it's not about giving them a formula or giving them strategies to overcome the wilderness, but it's about pointing them to Jesus and reminding them the truth that he has overcome and that we have victory in Him. And even if they don't grasp it in that moment, just keep on, keep on reminding them. Keep on loving them where they're at and pointing them to Jesus. Because that's man, that's all with. It's Jesus or nothing, you know? [00:36:07] Speaker B: Yeah. Just walking with them. Love it. Okay, now do that whole thing in Spanish. [00:36:12] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. [00:36:19] Speaker B: Just kidding. Thank you. Thank you for writing this. I know we have an entire Spanish speaking community, so we'll put this on our resource shelf in English and in Spanish for them to peruse and look at and use. Thank you so much for being here. Where can people find you? [00:36:37] Speaker A: So my website is Christellacevedo.com I'm sure you can link it because people are like, how do you spell that? She'll link it for you. And then I'm on Instagram. Instagram's probably my favorite place to be. Crystal Ace Yeah, Christelle Ace on there. So yeah, follow me. It's so much fun. Not only do I share biblical truth, but sometimes see videos of me and my kids dancing and that's fun too. So you know, we have a good old time. [00:37:01] Speaker B: I say not sometimes. You guys love to dance. I'm like always bopping along in my own. I'm not recording myself dancing. [00:37:12] Speaker A: Yeah. Thanks for having me, Kristen. You are awesome. So glad to be on here with you. [00:37:17] Speaker B: So glad you were here. If you yourself are in your own wilderness season, I know it's not helpful to just sometimes hear, but God is with you. So I have one more resource that I want to recommend to you and it's a book called Tomorrow Needs you by Nain Basel. This book doesn't shy away from uncomfortable topics and it will meet you right where you are, even if that's in the midst of spiritual or mental health darkness. This is a book that's full of hope that will help help you see where God really is still with you, even and especially when it's hard to see Him. Until next time. Thanks so much for listening and keep becoming the church to the people around you.