Bethny Ricks: Face Forward

[00:00:10] Speaker A: Welcome to Becoming church, the podcast where we discuss how the message and movement of Jesus is not just about becoming christians, but about becoming the church. I'm your host, Kristen Mochler Young, and today we have our first repeat guest on the show. This guest was on episode seven, where we talked about how to live lighter when the world feels heavy. Now she is back for episode 80. It is my friend, Bethany Ricks. Now, Bethany will tell you that she's not for everyone, but I'm pretty confident you will like her. Not only is she back for a second interview, but she's here with me in person in the studio. So this interview might be one where you want to try something a little bit different and check us out on YouTube. Bethany's facial expressions communicate more than her words ever can. And you will see so much more by watching the video. Either way, I know you'll enjoy my conversation with Bethany Ricks. Here we are, our first in person interview. [00:01:15] Speaker B: I love this. [00:01:16] Speaker A: Welcome to the in process podcast studio. [00:01:19] Speaker B: How does it feel to have a person? [00:01:23] Speaker A: Surreal. Yeah, it feels surreal. And I'm gonna tell you why. [00:01:26] Speaker B: Tell me. [00:01:26] Speaker A: Because you are not local. [00:01:28] Speaker B: No. [00:01:29] Speaker A: You live in Ohio. I do. We are in Charlotte, North Carolina. [00:01:33] Speaker B: We are. [00:01:33] Speaker A: And you drove 6 hours. [00:01:35] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:01:36] Speaker A: Just to do this interview with me. [00:01:39] Speaker B: And would do it again, ma'am. And we had an amazing dinner last night. [00:01:42] Speaker A: We did. We had an amazing dinner last night. Restoration hardware. The rain held off. [00:01:47] Speaker B: The cookie was. I woke up thinking about that cookie, and I was just like, I told you, will I go and have that cookie for lunch? [00:02:01] Speaker A: You will. [00:02:01] Speaker B: Next week. Yeah, I will. [00:02:04] Speaker A: I can't believe we left one on the plate. I drove away going, we left one on the plate. [00:02:08] Speaker B: But you didn't get it. We should have brought. [00:02:10] Speaker A: No, no, I know. [00:02:13] Speaker B: It's fine. [00:02:13] Speaker A: I know. Well, since we're talking about all the serious things already, because this is what we're gonna do. [00:02:21] Speaker B: Okay. [00:02:22] Speaker A: You are. We are here to talk about your book. Face forward. But before we do that, let's let people get to know you a little bit. Just keep laughing at us. [00:02:29] Speaker B: Which is always scary. [00:02:30] Speaker A: Like we do. You know? [00:02:31] Speaker B: I'm a weird one. [00:02:32] Speaker A: You are a fun one. [00:02:33] Speaker B: Okay. [00:02:34] Speaker A: Are you a weird one? I don't know if you're weird. [00:02:35] Speaker B: I'm a little. I'm a little off ki. I'm a little. [00:02:41] Speaker A: I'm gonna have to tell people straight up about your facial expressions because they communicate so much. Yeah. [00:02:47] Speaker B: Just a little offbeat. [00:02:49] Speaker A: I love it. All right. If you could have anything. Cause your book's called face forward. If there was anything that you could face right now, if there could be anything in front of you right now, what would it be? [00:02:57] Speaker B: A mountain. [00:02:59] Speaker A: Oh, that's not what I thought you were gonna say. Why? [00:03:03] Speaker B: Because I love hiking. [00:03:04] Speaker A: Okay. That tracks. [00:03:06] Speaker B: Yeah, that tracks. [00:03:07] Speaker A: I thought you were gonna say french fries. [00:03:09] Speaker B: Oh, God, those fries were so good. But I really want to go hiking. [00:03:14] Speaker A: Okay. [00:03:15] Speaker B: It's like, I have not. I did a big hike last year. [00:03:19] Speaker A: Okay. [00:03:20] Speaker B: Because this book is coming out when it's coming out. [00:03:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:03:24] Speaker B: It's just the timing is not working out, and the season is changing, and I'm just like, I need. I really want to hike. So if I could be standing right now facing a 14 er. [00:03:34] Speaker A: Okay, what does that mean? [00:03:35] Speaker B: That's how big the mountain. That's how big the mountain is. Yeah. That. [00:03:40] Speaker A: 14Ft. [00:03:43] Speaker B: It's. It's a hiking term. [00:03:45] Speaker A: I am neither mathy nor outdoorsy, so take that for what it's worth. [00:03:51] Speaker B: That's like. It's a hiking turtle for the scale the size of the mountain. So if you like the grand Teton. Those types of mountains. Yeah, they're really big. So if I could be standing anywhere and facing anything, it would be a big, giant mountain that I could hike in a day. [00:04:12] Speaker A: Okay. I like it. You are known to dance to some bops in your kitchen all the time. All the time. What's your favorite current dance? Bop for the kitchen. And I know you have a range, but I want to know the one that right now, in your brain, you're like, I don't know if I should say this one. That's the one I want you to say. [00:04:31] Speaker B: Um, I was not a theater kid. [00:04:34] Speaker A: Okay. [00:04:35] Speaker B: I was an athlete. [00:04:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:37] Speaker B: Right. Now, what I am dancing to, and I blame TikTok for this, is the Chicago. Yes. The Chicago soundtrack. [00:04:50] Speaker A: The one song in particular, right? [00:04:51] Speaker B: Yes. And because it's trending on TikTok. But I watched. That is top three, my favorite movie musical. It's one of the top three, and it's trending on TikTok. And so now I'm in my kitchen, non. I'm, like, dancing to every. Every single song. [00:05:13] Speaker A: I love it. In watching, you have a particular move. Do you try to, like. [00:05:17] Speaker B: Oh. [00:05:17] Speaker A: Line up your moves to the lyrics? [00:05:19] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:05:20] Speaker A: Do you want to show us one? [00:05:24] Speaker B: I don't think audio podcast. [00:05:27] Speaker A: Well, link will link up. Yeah, there it is. All right. Well, last fun little get to know you question. [00:05:32] Speaker B: Mm hmm. [00:05:33] Speaker A: You are such an encourager. That kind of alluded to you drove. We were going to set up this interview anyway. We've been friends for a while. [00:05:40] Speaker B: Yes. [00:05:41] Speaker A: Knew the book was coming out. I was like, let's talk about it. And you were like, hey, do you want to do this in person? And I was like, well, do you want to do this in person? No one has ever driven 6 hours to hang out with me, ever. [00:05:54] Speaker B: I would do anything for you. [00:05:56] Speaker A: I just can't tell you what that does to my brain and my psyche. And you're such an encourager and you send voice memos and text Starbucks cards and all the things. So who or what has encouraged you lately? [00:06:10] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh, my friends. [00:06:14] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. You got specific. [00:06:16] Speaker B: I mean, just this morning, Ashley Abercrombie, I had coffee with her. I mean, she drove. Yes. Yeah. She drove a couple of hours just to have coffee with me, I would say. My girlfriend's from college. So there's a group of us, we've been friends since our freshman year, the first weekend of college, which would have been in 2002. So we're over 20 years of friendship. They, like, are encouraging Jasmine Holmes and Shireya Ruth, like, so I just. Tabitha, like, you know. Yeah, yeah. Like, my friends, you know, I just, I have such wonderful community that is wide and deep, but not shallow. [00:06:57] Speaker A: Mmm, that's good. [00:06:58] Speaker B: Because sometimes when we think wide, we're like, oh, it's shallow. Yeah, yeah, no, it's wide and deep. [00:07:03] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I think you just embody the idea too, of even like, this is only the second time we've met in person in real life. I did not know that you had not met Ash until literally this morning in person. So it's like, in person, right? So it's that idea of no Internet friendships can be real. [00:07:20] Speaker B: Yes. [00:07:21] Speaker A: Friendships for the person right now that's listening, and it's like, must be nice to be able to, like, drive and go have coffee, listen. No shame, but I understand. I know that thought is there. What would you say to that person that's like, well, I can't do that. [00:07:35] Speaker B: You can. It's about what capacity you have to do based on the season that you're in. So I'm in a season right now, and I have the support where I can do that. Right. And I'm not offering to do things that I don't have the capability do. Yeah. And there was a time where I couldn't do that. [00:07:56] Speaker A: Right. [00:07:56] Speaker B: My kids were really young. I was a single mother, so I wouldn't have even been able to do some of the podcasts. I'm doing now because I would have been working a traditional kind of brick and mortar job. So. Yeah, yeah, you can. And sometimes that looks different. Right. [00:08:13] Speaker A: Listen, sometimes it just starts with like, no, make the coffee date in town. Like actually do that. Make time for yourself and do that first start there. [00:08:20] Speaker B: Yes. [00:08:21] Speaker A: Small baby steps. [00:08:22] Speaker B: Friendship requires action. [00:08:24] Speaker A: Yes, yes, yes. Like you know most anything else that's doing. Yeah. [00:08:29] Speaker B: It requires action and actually doing the things. Doing the things. [00:08:34] Speaker A: Well, you were, you were doing it. Alright, so a little, give us a little history. We are gonna get into the book. Yeah, but give people a little history into like not pre Bethany because you're still Bethany, but like past life Bethany. A little bit. What we were talking about last night, like who you used to be in. [00:08:50] Speaker B: Well, I was born. You were. [00:08:53] Speaker A: We're gonna go way back. This will be a long episode, guys. [00:08:56] Speaker B: It's really leaning, it's really, really cozy up. So past life, which I was a very different person than what I am today, which people will pick up in the, in the book. [00:09:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:09:09] Speaker B: But past life, business executive. And what that means is I had a pretty high powered job, had a team of over 100 all across the globe. Single mother, two children. I was married for ten years, divorced in 2017. Okay. It feels like so long ago. So long ago. I have degrees in sociology, criminology, minor in psychology. So like social science, world awards for leadership, awards for human resources. Like that's kind of my past life is helping the organizations I worked for find the right people to scale their strategy. [00:09:56] Speaker A: And you were very successful at it. [00:09:58] Speaker B: Yes. [00:09:58] Speaker A: You were very good at it. [00:09:59] Speaker B: Yes. [00:10:00] Speaker A: Like you were not just in the business world, but you were traveling and you were talking to CEO's and you were training and you were like getting requested and paid and hired to come and, and basically teach people. [00:10:11] Speaker B: Yes. [00:10:11] Speaker A: What to do. [00:10:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:13] Speaker A: And then what changed? [00:10:16] Speaker B: Well, you know, life happens and then God happens. So my plan, because I achieved success so early and for context early would be I became a vice president around the age of 27. [00:10:34] Speaker A: That's bananas. [00:10:37] Speaker B: So I was a vice president around 27, 28 ish, big job, publicly traded company. So people are like, what's a publicly traded company? That means the company is trading shares on Wall street. [00:10:51] Speaker A: Okay. [00:10:52] Speaker B: So these are billion, billion dollar businesses and some of the brands are in people's homes right now that I worked for. And so because I had started achieving success so early and gained access to financial well being and things like that, I had already decided I'm retiring at 43 44. [00:11:19] Speaker A: Okay. [00:11:20] Speaker B: I'm not. [00:11:21] Speaker A: I'm just gonna do this for 20. [00:11:22] Speaker B: Years, and then I'm gonna buy a house. [00:11:24] Speaker A: Okay. [00:11:26] Speaker B: On the beach somewhere. [00:11:27] Speaker A: Okay. [00:11:28] Speaker B: And throw up the deuces. [00:11:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:11:29] Speaker B: I'm not doing this until I'm 60. And then I had a medical scare, okay? So that's what I had was a Tia, which is a precursor to a stroke that put me in the hospital. And at this point, I was a senior vice president and was about to be named publicly the successor head of HR for the big company I was working for. And between that and just everything going on personally, I came to the decision with God, essentially saying, like this. I can't do this. [00:12:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:04] Speaker B: This is for what? [00:12:05] Speaker A: Right? [00:12:06] Speaker B: What am I for? What am I gonna leave my babies? What is all this grind? What is all this? [00:12:13] Speaker A: What's the actual payoff for? Yeah. [00:12:16] Speaker B: And so I walked away, and then God told me to rest because me walking away, I thought I would just transition to another company, do something a little different. And God's instruction was situba. Sit down, which was hard for type a, very assertive, command and control personality to then be still. [00:12:45] Speaker A: Yeah. No, that terrifies me, being still. I'm like, that's, like, one of my least favorite things. [00:12:51] Speaker B: Yeah. And do. Do nothing. And for 18 years, I had been on the front line of business, had just helped the company was a leader who helped build a billion dollar business. Like, just all these things, and it's like, okay, now you're gonna do nothing. [00:13:11] Speaker A: Mm hmm. So you must have had a very strong faith to be able to listen to God and go, okay, I'm gonna just leave all this and just go sit on my couch. [00:13:20] Speaker B: Yes and no. [00:13:22] Speaker A: You're like, talk about it. [00:13:24] Speaker B: Yeah. You're like, yeah. So, yes and no. I think when we have moments where our world starts to crack, that's where we can potentially hear God's voice a little more clearly. And I had had so many moments where my world was cracking, where I could not hear God's voice. But there was something about that moment being in a hospital bed at the age of 36, where I was just like, this is not it. Like, this cannot be the end of my story, that I could hear him very clearly, and I was willing to hear what he had to say, which is the beautiful thing about being in a relationship. Before then, my faith was on fumes because I was so upset and angry because of what I went through in this very volatile marriage, what I had gone through in the corporate world, being the only one in the room constantly advocating, but maybe not getting what I felt was the right thing. It was just. It was just chaos. Constant chaos. And I was upset, and I couldn't really hear God's voice. And sometimes I didn't want to. [00:14:35] Speaker A: Yeah, that's real. [00:14:36] Speaker B: Right? Like, I was just like, I don't want. I actually am not talking to you right now. [00:14:40] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I don't like that answer. [00:14:42] Speaker B: I don't like that answer. [00:14:43] Speaker A: So we're gonna present. That wasn't you. Yeah. [00:14:45] Speaker B: We're gonna pretend. Yeah. [00:14:46] Speaker A: You have said before. I've heard you say this before, actually, the first time I interviewed you for this podcast, like an episode, like three or something. You said then. I think you said it last night, too, that your presence is offensive. [00:14:58] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:14:59] Speaker A: Explain. So you are female, you are black, you are spunky, and you, like, command a room. [00:15:07] Speaker B: Yes. But explain that statement, which I explain that to people. So, aside from the obvious, let me go with the not so obvious. People have a. Their backs go straight with authenticity. Right. So when you're dealing with people who are authentic, owning who they are and the power that they hold within their own story, their faith, their understanding of scripture, like, oh, you can't manipulate. Yeah, that can be offensive. [00:15:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:15:46] Speaker B: On top of the fact that depending on the environments that I enter into, I'm a woman. I am black. I am a woman who is a leader. [00:16:01] Speaker A: Right. [00:16:02] Speaker B: Who held very high positions, who has all of that, is who not only. [00:16:08] Speaker A: Earned those positions, but then was also given those positions. Cause there are a lot of women that earn it but are still not given. [00:16:15] Speaker B: Correct. [00:16:16] Speaker A: So you both earned it, proved your worth, proved your capability, and were also then given those titles and platforms and positions. [00:16:23] Speaker B: Yes. And so that can be offensive to people. [00:16:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:29] Speaker B: Authentic. Not apologetic about my boundaries, who I am, not apologetic about who God is in my story, what his biblical truth, what his words are. [00:16:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:42] Speaker B: That'S offensive. I'm not going to be put in a box. Whoa, whoa, whoa. That goes straight. [00:16:47] Speaker A: Right? [00:16:47] Speaker B: So that's. That's why I say them like, ah, yeah, sometimes my presence can be a little offensive. [00:16:51] Speaker A: So how do you handle that knowing, like, you see somebody straighten up, like. And they're like, what do you do? How do you go in confidently? How do you go in without kind of absorbing all of their, like, perceptions of you and letting it make you insecure? [00:17:13] Speaker B: I guess I talk about this a little bit in the book where I don't use the word offense, so I'll put it in the context of what we're talking about, but someone else's offense is not my problem to solve. [00:17:27] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. [00:17:29] Speaker B: Your perception of me is not my problem to solve because that means you haven't done the work. The other person to get to know me. So how you perceive me without actually articulating that and giving me an opportunity to speak on that. Not my problem. Yeah, not my problem. And most people are not going to say, I have an issue with you because you're authentic. [00:17:55] Speaker A: Right, right. [00:17:57] Speaker B: I have an issue with you because of you refuse to get into this box that we have placed you in. I have an issue with you because you are a woman or I have an issue with you because you're a man. I have it. Like, people aren't going to say that they will just be silent. [00:18:13] Speaker A: Right. Or rude. [00:18:15] Speaker B: Or rude. [00:18:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:17] Speaker B: Or make it about something else. You don't really. You don't really fit the brand. You're not really on, like, on brand for us. [00:18:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:29] Speaker B: Like, that's like, okay, yeah, that's fine. [00:18:31] Speaker A: Finding out the underlying. And that. And that's where I think it takes practice. You have to be able to see the underlying issue under what people are giving you. [00:18:41] Speaker B: Yes. And you have to be okay with not. I'm really not for everyone. [00:18:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:46] Speaker B: And I know that people say that they're like, you know, be okay with not being, you know, for everybody. Look, I really am. I'm really not. [00:18:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:56] Speaker B: I'm. I'm really not for everybody's appetite. And I'm also not somebody who wants to be consumed by everyone. [00:19:03] Speaker A: Yeah. And that's where it starts. Exactly. You have to be able to live out of it yourself before you can worry about what other people think. [00:19:10] Speaker B: Yeah. And repeatedly throughout the book, I say to the reader, you decide. You are the decision maker so long before anybody else decides for you, you have to decide for yourself. [00:19:23] Speaker A: That's good. That's good. All right. So kind of coming from one world into the next. And a lot of what you do is you take leadership principles and you align them with scripture. [00:19:34] Speaker B: Yes. [00:19:35] Speaker A: What is maybe the one that you use the most often? Oh, and if that means you have to tell on yourself, and that means. [00:19:45] Speaker B: Oh, no, I am definitely going to tell on myself. Slow to speak. [00:19:51] Speaker A: Okay. Okay. [00:19:55] Speaker B: Just stop. [00:19:57] Speaker A: Talk. [00:19:58] Speaker B: Just. That's a proverb, so to speak, quick to listen. Just. [00:20:08] Speaker A: Okay. [00:20:10] Speaker B: I use that in my own life. I mean, it bounces around in my head pretty often throughout the day, but it's also something I use in coaching in secular spaces. [00:20:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:22] Speaker B: I'm like, just. [00:20:24] Speaker A: It still applies. Yeah, yeah. Just take a beat. [00:20:26] Speaker B: Take a beat. [00:20:27] Speaker A: Think about it. [00:20:28] Speaker B: And I have a whole section called allow silence to do its work. [00:20:32] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, that's good. That's. I've talked about this on the podcast before, but during. I think maybe it was during the pandemic, when the whole. Everything was just like, pew, pew, pew. Every time you turned around, holy spirit was like, you will no longer get on the interwebs and just spout off. And it wasn't like I was being super out there. [00:20:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:53] Speaker A: I just got this very convicted sense of, like, no, ma'am, you can write it down, and then you're gonna sit on it, and you're gonna come back to it. And it was hard at first, because I think sometimes people go, like, for a while, there was a phrase that was like, oh, your silence is complicity. Or it was more catchy than that, but it was basically that idea. And I was like, no, but it's not. [00:21:13] Speaker B: It's not. [00:21:14] Speaker A: My silence is wisdom. What do people, as a pastor, what do people actually need to hear from me? They don't need another hot take. [00:21:22] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:21:23] Speaker A: What do they need? Sweet Jesus, tell me, because I don't know, and I won't know. [00:21:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:28] Speaker A: Unless I sit in silence and think about it for a minute. [00:21:31] Speaker B: And for me, I can be internally very reactionary, so on the outside, I'm not. And a part of my job was to make quick judgments. So a criticism I would get is that I took too long to process information, so that. So my. I swung the other way. [00:21:52] Speaker A: Okay. [00:21:53] Speaker B: Okay. Well, I'm just. [00:21:54] Speaker A: I'm just gonna go. [00:21:54] Speaker B: And I made a lot of mistakes early on in my career, because I'm just, like, off the. Off the dome. [00:21:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:21:59] Speaker B: Okay, well. And I was wrong. [00:22:03] Speaker A: But you were trained up for that. [00:22:05] Speaker B: Yeah, I was so. I was so. I was so wrong. And thank God, I learned. I learned very quickly. Okay, that was really bad advice. And so, you know, I kind of went a little to the middle, but I'm still a mental processor, so it never really works. Me reacting in the moment. Because what you're gonna get is emotion. [00:22:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:32] Speaker B: Not fact. [00:22:33] Speaker A: Yeah. Yes. [00:22:34] Speaker B: And you're gonna get a misquote or a misstatement or you're not gonna get the humility. You're just gonna get. Well, me, me. I I I. [00:22:44] Speaker A: Sometimes that just has to come out first. [00:22:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:47] Speaker A: I mean, there are people in my life where I say to them, like, hey, I just need you to listen to me. Not as a coworker. [00:22:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:52] Speaker A: Just not as my husband, not as I just, I need you to listen to me as a friend. [00:22:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:56] Speaker A: Cuz I just need to verbally vomit on you for a second. [00:22:58] Speaker B: Yes. [00:22:59] Speaker A: Cuz I need to get out the emotion and the me and all the things so that I can clear that out and then. But there's a big difference between doing that with a trusted person or in a journal versus like on Instagram Live. [00:23:13] Speaker B: Like, I really think people should start journaling. Yeah, I was never big. Like, I just, I really, I really think people should journal. Yes. I have a lot men and women. [00:23:25] Speaker A: But now I kind of want to burn them before anyone reads them, which is a whole. [00:23:28] Speaker B: You can journal, you can burn them. [00:23:30] Speaker A: Just jolly can write it down. Okay, I'm jumping in with a quick little break to honestly just ask you for what we need and that is your feedback when you leave a review. I read every single one of them. And not only that, I actually listened to what you said. Hey, check out this review from Hhhgfui. They say, I love listening to the latest episode while making the kiddos lunches each morning. It feeds my soul, leaves me with prompts to talk with the kids on the way to the bus, and generally just starts our mornings. In the right collective mindset, my only ask is more episodes. Thank you for publishing this. Well, thank you for your review. And guess what? Because of you, becoming church is now airing weekly with double the episodes. Even if you don't have time to type out a review, hitting those five stars on Apple podcasts, or as many stars as you consider to be truthful, does help other people define the show. You can also tag meristanmochleryoung when you share the episodes on social media to let me know what episodes are connecting with you. Alright, let's get back to Bethany. All right, so I've got for people on YouTube, whoop, whoop, whoop. On audio, they're like, what is she doing? So your book face forward comes out in a couple days. It's available for pre order right now, comes out in a couple days. Face forward. Reclaiming hope when everything falls apart. Lots of people like to talk about hope. What do you think people get wrong about hope? [00:25:05] Speaker B: That it's passive. [00:25:06] Speaker A: Oh, yes, I. [00:25:07] Speaker B: Right that it's passive. I like to say that hope is also a person. [00:25:13] Speaker A: A person. [00:25:14] Speaker B: Is it Jesus? [00:25:15] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:25:16] Speaker B: Okay, capital H. Capital H. Nice. So you know it's an emotion. It's a, it's, it's all of those things. But for us, people of faith, yeah. So I'll take it to the faith side, hope is a person. [00:25:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:25:33] Speaker B: So tangible, real. On the other side, what people get wrong about it is that it's passive and it's something that's very fleeting, that, oh, just have hope and then you kind of toss it over the fence. But it's not passive. And it requires action. It requires effort and work. [00:25:51] Speaker A: Right. [00:25:52] Speaker B: And so those are the things that I think people get wrong about it. But overarching is that hope is also a person. [00:26:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:00] Speaker B: That we can put our trust in. [00:26:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:02] Speaker B: Who is. And that person is never failing, consistent, never leaves, never forsakes. [00:26:10] Speaker A: Yeah. It's hard to be fleeting when you have your hope rooted in a person. [00:26:14] Speaker B: Correct. [00:26:15] Speaker A: Yeah. Joe Saxon once stuck with me. It stuck with me so much. She talked about how hope, like, is really gritty and hope has skinned up knees and, like, you know, bruised hands from crawling to the next thing and being on your knees in prayer. And that just totally changed hope for me. [00:26:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:32] Speaker A: It is. [00:26:33] Speaker B: It's not shiny. It is cute. [00:26:35] Speaker A: It's not cute. [00:26:35] Speaker B: It's not. It does not have a pretty bow. And in the introduction of the book, I say these stories in here, some professional, some personal, even the stories that I share about other people, they are not pretty bow stories, because life, though we may have seasons that are really great and full of joy, life is not a pretty bow story. It's not a lifetime movie. And, yeah, hope is. I love that description. I love Joseph accident. Yeah. I love that. I love that description. [00:27:07] Speaker A: So for somebody that maybe, and I have been this person, okay. Where I look at a book title or I see what the book is about, and I'm like, well, that's. I have. I've never put myself in the hospital from stress. I haven't. Like to spit your water out. I haven't. I haven't had a major loss. I haven't had to suffer, like. Right. So. So do I need to read this book? [00:27:32] Speaker B: Absolutely. Why? [00:27:33] Speaker A: Why do these people, you know, people shy away because you're like, well, this is not for me. [00:27:38] Speaker B: This is not for. Well, in part, the. Everything. [00:27:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:27:42] Speaker B: Which is, you know, it has a little dramatic bleeding down on the COVID because we all have these moments in our day to day life where it feels like everything is falling apart. [00:27:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:27:58] Speaker B: Because even when I was in the hospital, my kids were healthy. [00:28:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:02] Speaker B: I still had. I still had a job. A week later, I took a reprieve to go to Utah, Park City, Utah, on a vacation by myself. Like, yeah. [00:28:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:13] Speaker B: You know what I mean? But it felt like everything was falling apart so we can have these moments in our day to day life wherever it feels like everything is chaotic. [00:28:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:25] Speaker B: And so what I did with the book is I picked topics that help us put us back in the driver's seat of our own life. So topics like priorities, topics like boundaries, topics around. How do you sit in your own power and also hold faith? Right. Yeah, that's. Yes. This is for everyday life, and the drama of everything is falling apart. Okay. [00:28:57] Speaker A: Right. Yeah. [00:28:59] Speaker B: Let's look at how you're dealing with your day to day. Maybe that's why it feels that way or. Yeah. [00:29:04] Speaker A: You actually said in the introduction, I'm going to read you. I'm going to read your words, your own words back to you. Just a couple sentences you wrote in the intro. Have you ever had a time when you knew everything in your life was about to change, but you were unsure if it would be for the better? Have you ever stood on a thin line between the old and new chapters of your life, wondering how it would all unfold, shuffling through everything you thought you knew as you suddenly became unfamiliar with your own story? Mmm. Sound good? He wrote that. Do you remember that? Okay, so I'm gonna ask the question, even though I think I know how you're gonna answer this line, this, like, tension line of, like, what's ahead and what's behind? And is this just, like, a one time thing that people. Or is this just life? [00:29:47] Speaker B: It's life. [00:29:47] Speaker A: It's just life. [00:29:48] Speaker B: And so the book, I won't give too much away, because I do want people to. [00:29:53] Speaker A: Yes. You should go read it. [00:29:55] Speaker B: The book starts with me standing in the rain, and it ends with me standing in the rain and. But my perspective has changed. So this is just the questions that we asked throughout life. I'm in that tension right now. I have a book coming out. [00:30:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:11] Speaker B: I'm reflecting back on the old. I don't know what's around the corner. In three months, I have no idea. But my perspective has changed because I have peace and my hope looks different because of where my hope is placed. [00:30:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:25] Speaker B: And so, you know, I think we live with these tension, these questions, throughout our entire life. And I also think that that's okay. Yeah. [00:30:37] Speaker A: And normal. [00:30:38] Speaker B: And normal. And. But because of that tension, I think we deepen our relationship with God. [00:30:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:43] Speaker B: Because the questions. The. The questions, the answers are different, so it's not always the same. [00:30:49] Speaker A: Right. [00:30:50] Speaker B: Right answer. Right. When I was in the rain at the start of the book, I was still married. [00:30:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:56] Speaker B: At the end of the book, I wasn't. [00:30:58] Speaker A: Yeah. Right. [00:31:00] Speaker B: So that response, that God response, and I. My intimacy, my relationship with God was very different. My ability to hear him was different. My perspective was different. [00:31:11] Speaker A: So I think it kind of fights that, you know, a lot of christians are like, I just been, myself included. I just want to do God's will. I just want to know God's will. I just. God, what is your will? And I think we tend to think of those as big things. Who do I marry? What job do I take? Where do I move? Right. But this idea of, no, you're forever going to be standing on some kind of line. [00:31:34] Speaker B: Yes. [00:31:34] Speaker A: Like, all of that is God's will, and at the same time, all of it is not God's will. [00:31:39] Speaker B: Yeah. It's. It's just what? [00:31:41] Speaker A: We're making decisions every day, and. And we can ask him all the time. Like, yes, for the big things and also for the small. For the small things. Now we don't have to ask God, like, what kind of milk should I put in my latte? Like, free will. [00:31:54] Speaker B: Free will. Yeah. [00:31:55] Speaker A: There's a balance. But sometimes I think people get stuck. [00:31:59] Speaker B: They do. [00:31:59] Speaker A: On this line. [00:32:00] Speaker B: Yes. [00:32:01] Speaker A: Because they're waiting on God's will or maybe something else. Why do you think people get stuck there, unable to move? [00:32:06] Speaker B: I call it the cliff of what if. [00:32:07] Speaker A: Oh, I like that. It rhymes. [00:32:11] Speaker B: I mean, in my heart, I'm a poet. So there is. There is some flow. I call it the cliff of what if. And I think people get stuck because they're looking in the rearview mirror trying to rewrite the story before they move forward. [00:32:22] Speaker A: Ooh. Whoa. They want to rewrite the story before they move forward. But we can't actually do that. [00:32:32] Speaker B: We can't do that. [00:32:33] Speaker A: Okay. [00:32:34] Speaker B: We can't do that. [00:32:35] Speaker A: Being stuck. [00:32:35] Speaker B: Being stuck. So we stand in these clips, cliffs, of what if and if I can change the past. And what if I had done it differently? What if this, what if that. What if I admit you can't. What you can do, though, is take the lessons with you. [00:32:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:53] Speaker B: And move forward. And then the question is, what if this happened? Well, what if this happens? Well, okay. And you'll never. You'll never know. So you can stay on the thin ice of doubt. [00:33:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:09] Speaker B: And not move at all and be stuck in the illusion of the rear view mirror. [00:33:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:15] Speaker B: Which, by the way, even in our vehicles, the side view tells you the images are distorted. [00:33:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:21] Speaker B: Those little words like this isn't actually reality. So the rear view mirror is a reality. Right. You can stay stuck there or you can take a leap with faith, by faith, carrying the lessons with you, because you're never starting from scratch, ever. We're never starting from scratch. So a lot of times, people don't move forward because they're like, I'm starting from scratch. No, you're nothing. [00:33:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:45] Speaker B: You're starting with the lessons that came from failures. The lessons that come with taking leaves the leaps, and then you move forward in that, and that takes courage. But God is also with you. Community is also with you. And it's more than likely that you will do better than what you did yesterday. [00:34:07] Speaker A: That's encouraging. [00:34:08] Speaker B: You will do better than what you did yesterday. If you're carrying the lessons with you, you'll do better than what you did yesterday. [00:34:15] Speaker A: I think we're in a very anxious time. [00:34:18] Speaker B: Mm hmm. [00:34:19] Speaker A: I've been listening to. I should have written his name down, but there's a guy right now who writes books and is talking about how we are raising, basically, the next anxious generation. [00:34:27] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, that cover. Yes. [00:34:29] Speaker A: Both of my girls. Well, one has diagnosed anxiety, and right now with the other one, her teacher was like, hey, does she have diagnosed anxiety yet? And I was like, oh, my God, here we go again. And I just about can't handle it. All of that to say, to come back to the whole idea of the what if cliff. [00:34:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:47] Speaker A: I think a lot of people are stuck on the what ifing, and they want to. They go to, like, catastrophizing thoughts. Yeah, but what if this. And what if this. The lifecycle freezes them, right. What practically can people do if that's where they're stuck? They're like, no, this is me. I'm always what ifing? I'm always what ifing? And I get stuck. Do you have anything like that will help them to break out of that? [00:35:10] Speaker B: Well, the first thing I tell people to do is focus on the present. [00:35:13] Speaker A: Okay. [00:35:14] Speaker B: There's nothing that you can do with what happened yesterday. [00:35:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:19] Speaker B: Literally. [00:35:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:21] Speaker B: And tomorrow has its own worries and problems. [00:35:25] Speaker A: Yes. Yes. There's a bible verse. [00:35:28] Speaker B: I'm looking at the pastor. I'm like, I feel like that's. [00:35:31] Speaker A: I think Jesus said that. [00:35:32] Speaker B: I feel like there's so one focus on kind of the present and what you can control. [00:35:40] Speaker A: Yes. [00:35:41] Speaker B: That's so good in the present. Now people are like, but I have a lot to control in the present. I'm gonna give you a practical exercise, which is actually in my book. So this is a freebie in that if you're. If you're the person you're like, oh, my God, that sounds so great. You're like, right at the surface. What does that mean? Controlling my present. And I have so many things to do. What you have to do is sift between what is a priority and what is an obligation. Those are two different things. [00:36:09] Speaker A: Okay. [00:36:09] Speaker B: Right now, we live in a world that prioritizes everything. [00:36:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:36:14] Speaker B: Which then you compound all that, and it's like, oh, my God, I'm able to create this what if story and what if this happened? What is an obligation in your life right now? Today? [00:36:26] Speaker A: Yeah, today. Okay. [00:36:28] Speaker B: The obligation comes first, then the priority. [00:36:32] Speaker A: Okay. That's good. [00:36:34] Speaker B: Obligation. Those are two different things. An obligation is something that you must do. [00:36:38] Speaker A: Right. [00:36:39] Speaker B: You have to go to work. [00:36:40] Speaker A: Right. [00:36:42] Speaker B: You have to take care of your kids. [00:36:43] Speaker A: Right. [00:36:44] Speaker B: You have to go to certain appointments. Priorities are different. [00:36:48] Speaker A: Mm hmm. Mm hmm. [00:36:50] Speaker B: So that kind of helps you shift when you're talking about, like, being overwhelmed and. [00:36:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:36:54] Speaker B: Like that. Because I think that some of what you're asking, that's kind of how you shift through that day to day. Is that answering your question, like, in a practical, tangible exercise in that way? [00:37:06] Speaker A: Well. And that will help not everything to feel urgent, like you said, which is what life right now is like. [00:37:10] Speaker B: Yes. [00:37:11] Speaker A: Everything is urgent. [00:37:12] Speaker B: Everything is urgent. [00:37:12] Speaker A: I had to turn. I am a no notification person on my phone. [00:37:16] Speaker B: I'm the same. [00:37:16] Speaker A: Sounds like, get out. Yeah, I don't care. Yeah, I don't care. The aunt Susan liked my thing on Facebook. I don't care. I don't care. Yeah, it's not urgent. [00:37:26] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:37:28] Speaker A: All right. You also said in the book, you said, with Grace, hope and Joy, find your power and reclaim what is yours, snatching it back. What does that make that a more than a woo woo statement? Do you know what I'm saying? Because it could be nice to be like, oh, yeah, we've got our things. Like, find your power and reclaim what is yours. How do you do that with hope, with Jesus? What's that look like? [00:37:53] Speaker B: I actually wrote. I wrote something that will answer that question that I'm going to read. And this is from the reclaiming your voice. Grace is about extending patience to yourself when things fall apart. Hope isn't wishful thinking, but the decision to keep hope, to keep going despite uncertainty. Joy doesn't come from perfect circumstances. It comes from a sense of alignment with who you are becoming as you walk in faith. So that's the non woo woo. Yeah version of that. [00:38:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:31] Speaker B: Then I can get why people would be like, oh, that's kind of a woo woo, like, soft type of statement. But all of that is action oriented, and it's in connection with Christ. [00:38:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:44] Speaker B: But it's also very personal, and it's not dependent on other people or things. [00:38:51] Speaker A: I love that you actually use the word reclaim because our church's mission, like, the reason we exist, is to reclaim the message and movement of Jesus because we feel like a whole bunch of ish has just been layered on top of it. [00:39:03] Speaker B: Oh, I love that. [00:39:04] Speaker A: Yes. So, so for our mosaic people that are listening, they're like, ah, I like it. [00:39:10] Speaker B: Yes. I love that. [00:39:11] Speaker A: But I love what you did there. You took grace, hope, joy, things that, like, we talked about earlier with hope, right. Can just be these, like, fleeting ideals, whatever. And you take them back, and you're like, no, these are. [00:39:24] Speaker B: This is real. [00:39:24] Speaker A: This is real stuff. [00:39:26] Speaker B: Yes. [00:39:26] Speaker A: And it's real answers, and it's real solutions, and it's real in Jesus. [00:39:29] Speaker B: Yes. [00:39:30] Speaker A: And it can happen to all these things, and it is hard. [00:39:33] Speaker B: It's so. [00:39:35] Speaker A: But that doesn't make it bad. [00:39:37] Speaker B: It's just better. [00:39:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:38] Speaker B: Yeah. It's just. And you have to work for it and put effort behind it, but, yeah, that's. I love it. [00:39:48] Speaker A: So before I ask you the last question, I'm gonna impromptu ask you one more question. [00:39:52] Speaker B: You can ask me whatever you want. [00:39:54] Speaker A: We. We were chatting last night about what I say the christian influencer world a little bit, and you were like, who is this? Who is that? [00:40:06] Speaker B: I don't know. [00:40:07] Speaker A: These people are really great because it reminds me that, like, sometimes it just reminded me that everybody's lived experience is so different. [00:40:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:16] Speaker A: And that everybody's feed is so different. And I assume because I follow these people that I admire and respect and whatever on Instagram that everyone does. [00:40:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:24] Speaker A: Like, a gazillion, bazillion followers. So I'm like, what do you mean? So we were talking about all these people, right? [00:40:31] Speaker B: And I know who is. [00:40:33] Speaker A: We know Joseph, because that Joe Saxon's amazing. I know the one that really got me. Beth Moore. And I know you know who she is now, but please explain how you did not know who Beth Moore was until, like, yesterday. [00:40:47] Speaker B: Had no. Oh, my gosh. [00:40:50] Speaker A: I had no mother to so many of us. [00:40:53] Speaker B: I had no. This is a true story, and I have receipts for this story, okay. Because people will, like, hear this and be like, she's lying. So, again, I worked in the corporate world, so brick and mortar. Like, I didn't even know there was a Christian. Like, I didn't have social media yeah. Like, I didn't have social media. I didn't have. [00:41:20] Speaker A: I'm like, was he even around then? [00:41:21] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, yeah, Instagram and Facebook and all those things, but I was on plane strains and automobiles. Like, I just. I didn't have social media like that. I had a personal account, and it was private, and that was it. [00:41:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:41:36] Speaker B: So when I entered into the christian space around 2019, it was just kind of like, oh, okay. [00:41:43] Speaker A: There's people out here doing this. [00:41:44] Speaker B: There's people out here posting scriptures. Like, great. More power to them. Yeah. So my friend calls me and she is telling me about this woman that she had seen in the airport. [00:41:56] Speaker A: Okay. [00:41:57] Speaker B: Who prayed for her. [00:41:58] Speaker A: Okay. [00:42:00] Speaker B: And she's, like, emotional, and she's a very good one of my best friends. She is emotional and she's. And I'm being supportive for. I'm like, oh, my God, this is so amazing. Like, I'm happy for her. She's, like, telling. I mean, she is in this story. [00:42:14] Speaker A: Yes. [00:42:15] Speaker B: And I'm like, oh, my God, this is so, like, this is definitely God's hand. [00:42:19] Speaker A: So special. [00:42:20] Speaker B: Yeah, so special. And she goes, so what? Like, what do you think? And, you know, like, I tell her, I. And then I go, so I have. And this is two years ago. [00:42:32] Speaker A: Okay. [00:42:32] Speaker B: I was like. I was like, I have a question. She goes, what? And she's, like, sniffling because she was. This is very emotional for her. [00:42:40] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:42:41] Speaker B: You're like, I totally understand. [00:42:43] Speaker A: Yes. [00:42:43] Speaker B: This woman prayed for her. [00:42:44] Speaker A: Correct. [00:42:45] Speaker B: And, like, spoken to her life. I said, who is Beth Moore? She was like, oh, my God. She was like, I love you, but I also hate you. She's like, you do not understand. She's like. Because you don't understand the magnitude. But also, she's like, I love that you don't know anybody. [00:43:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:43:08] Speaker B: And this is, like, the purest example. And it. Beth Moore came out with a memoir. [00:43:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:43:14] Speaker B: And she was like, you have to listen to this. You have to listen to this. And I did. And phenomenal. The only thing of hers I've ever written or read. [00:43:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:43:24] Speaker B: That she's written. And beautiful, powerful woman of God had never heard of her before. I mean, go, Beth Moore. [00:43:35] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean, I think the thing with why so many of us love her and her memoir is so stunning. And get it? Because she reads. [00:43:45] Speaker B: That's where I was like, I mean, I'm not a criere at the end. Had to pull over. I was sobbing, but I was like, oh, my gosh, this woman is. I can understand why she is a pillar in the community. And the more I find out about kind of the christian space and the world and things like that, I'm like, okay, I get it even more. [00:44:04] Speaker A: So, I think especially people like our age, because we grew up where either maybe we did Beth Moore Bible studies, but, like, our parents, like, our moms definitely did. And so we grew up knowing about Beth Moore. She was, like, one of the very few women that was allowed to teach Bible studies and be at conferences. And then we got to, as we were coming into our own, we got to watch her leave the SBC and speak out against the patriarchy and speak up against things that we are all facing. And she was like, I don't want to put words in Sister Beth's mouth, but basically, like, forget all of this. [00:44:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:42] Speaker A: And go forward. And so now we just love her even more because we're like, you are one of us. [00:44:48] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, it was. It was. I mean, her book was beautifully. I remember when I was listening to her on audio, I remember vaguely the tweet, because I was actually in an executive's office. [00:45:01] Speaker A: Okay. [00:45:02] Speaker B: And they commented on that tweet. It was a male. Yeah, I. But I didn't. And when she was, you know, talking about it in her book, I was like, oh, I made kind of the connection. The connection there. And me, I grew up in a denomination where women do preach, and they are pastors, so different background. Totally different background in the north. So, you know, it's just a different kind of space. But, yeah, that's my. I mean, I love it. I may not ever meet her one day, but more power to you. [00:45:37] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I. [00:45:39] Speaker B: Way to go. [00:45:40] Speaker A: She is my. Like, if I could get her on this podcast, I think I would just quit my life. Like, I would be like, this is the last and best thing I can. [00:45:48] Speaker B: Ever do is, like, let that happen. But also, we're not gonna. It's a great podcast. [00:45:57] Speaker A: Well, thank you. [00:45:57] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:45:58] Speaker A: Thank you. But. But, Sister Beth, if you're listening, call me. Call me. Yeah. Call me. [00:46:04] Speaker B: Make that happen. Yeah. [00:46:06] Speaker A: All right, well, last question for you. [00:46:07] Speaker B: Okay. [00:46:07] Speaker A: Because the podcast is called becoming church. [00:46:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:46:10] Speaker A: What can people that are listening do? Maybe in lieu of hope and things that they're facing, how can they become the church to people around them? [00:46:20] Speaker B: I'm actually gonna say what we talked about a little bit last night, which is be authentic in your story and how Jesus is showing up for you today. [00:46:30] Speaker A: Okay. [00:46:32] Speaker B: Today in your everyday life and how he is filling the gaps and how he is helping you be more humble and gracious and kind. [00:46:46] Speaker A: As opposed to what? [00:46:48] Speaker B: The opposite. [00:46:49] Speaker A: Just talking only about, like, the past or, like, complaining or. [00:46:52] Speaker B: Yeah. Talking about the past or complaining. I think what people need to hear is not just about fire brimstone, the salvation story. This is everything that's wrong with the church. This is everything wrong with America. But this is what it looks like every day to walk this faith thing out and have grace and mercy just as an everyday human, to know that as a parenthood, I might fail and I might have to ask my kids to forgive me. And what that looks like. And what it looks like to be humbled in a kind way by a father who loves you. [00:47:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:47:40] Speaker B: And not have shame in expressing that and showing that. That's what I think that looks like. [00:47:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:47:50] Speaker B: In 2024. [00:47:51] Speaker A: Right. [00:47:52] Speaker B: That's what hope looks like. That's what grace looks like. That's what. That's what the church is. [00:47:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:47:57] Speaker B: Right. That's the good news. [00:47:59] Speaker A: Right. [00:47:59] Speaker B: The good news is, in all of my imperfection. [00:48:02] Speaker A: Yeah. Jesus is still actually doing things. Yeah. [00:48:06] Speaker B: Every day we try to get them. [00:48:07] Speaker A: Into the church often. Right. We're like, come into the church, be in the church. But then, like, why? Just to be in the church. [00:48:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:48:14] Speaker A: Just for community. Community is great. [00:48:16] Speaker B: Community is wonderful. [00:48:17] Speaker A: Needed. But, like. But, like, what are we actually offering them? [00:48:21] Speaker B: Yeah. What does it look like? [00:48:21] Speaker A: What is Jesus doing today? [00:48:23] Speaker B: What does it look like on a Tuesday? What does it look like on a Wednesday? What does it look like on Thursday? When you're crying or you're in the garage banging on a tire, dude. Because you're frustrated and you don't know how to solve the problems going on in your household. What does Christ look like in that? And how does he help you solve that problem? And then how does community come behind you in solving that? [00:48:48] Speaker A: Yeah. God. And I would encourage people to. To broaden your idea of what it looks like for Jesus to be doing things in your life. Last night, we sat down at dinner and you were like, how was your day? And I went, oh, I'm gonna tell her, Jimmy. [00:49:03] Speaker B: What? [00:49:03] Speaker A: I said? I was like, crappy. [00:49:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:49:05] Speaker A: I said my day was crappy, but having dinner with you and sitting down with you, I was like, no, this is where Jesus actually is in my life today. [00:49:14] Speaker B: Yes. [00:49:14] Speaker A: Coming through Bethany. Because he knew I needed this after all the things and the conversation, and he spoke through you. And so I just. I thank you for doing that. And we can acknowledge, like, that's actually what this is. [00:49:26] Speaker B: Yeah. And he's someone who was. Had full capacity and enough joy, enough hope in that moment to be like. [00:49:35] Speaker A: Okay, yeah, I see you. [00:49:37] Speaker B: I see you. [00:49:37] Speaker A: And we're gonna pull you out of this. [00:49:38] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's. And it's fine that you feel that way. That makes perfect sense. And. Oh, like, all right. [00:49:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:49:45] Speaker B: So that's. That's how I would answer that question. And wouldn't the world look just a little different? [00:49:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:49:54] Speaker B: If people talked about what Christ did for them on a Monday. [00:49:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:49:57] Speaker B: At 245. [00:50:00] Speaker A: Yeah. Beautiful. Beautiful. Well, listen, we will. The book comes out in a couple days. We will link up all the places where people can get it. Anything else that you want to tell them about besides the book? [00:50:12] Speaker B: Is there anything Instagram? [00:50:14] Speaker A: Should we link up your Instagram? Are you not. [00:50:17] Speaker B: Are you going to be on. I will. I will be an active participant on Instagram, on Jesus led Bible fed, on Bethany Ricks. I have a newsletter led in Fed that's about to start coming out that will focus on. [00:50:30] Speaker A: Excellent. [00:50:31] Speaker B: Every week, just here are three leadership points connected to scripture to help you lead better in your day to day life. We'll link it all up short and sweet and to the point. [00:50:44] Speaker A: And you, thank you also so much for being here. I've got some great interviews coming up for you in the next month, including with Elizabeth Tabish, who plays Mary Magdalene on the chosen, Sheila Gregoire, who is going to talk to us about sex and where maybe the christians have gotten it quite wrong. Also, Dr. Jamar Tisbee, who will enlighten us on how to find hope in the midst of injustice. Until next time, keep becoming the church to the people around.