Brenna Blain: Can I Say That in Church?

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:10] Speaker B: Welcome to Becoming Church, the podcast where we discuss how the message and movement of Jesus is not just about becoming Christians, but about becoming the church. I'm your host, Kristin Mochler Young, and my guest today is Brenna Blaine. As I told Brenna before we started recording, let me remind you that Becoming Church is probably not what you think of when you think of a typical church pod. We are not here to platform perfectly righteous people or tell only the happy, shiny parts of stories. We believe in and honor the Imago Day of all people. And my hope is that you will only believe more and more that God is with you in every situation through each person you get to hear from on this show. Today's episode is certainly no exception. If there are people in your life who don't feel safe in the church or. Or who have been flat out told that they're too sinful or broken to belong, please text them this episode link right now so that we can speak truth into who they are and where God is already walking with them. Brenna, all the way from Portland, Oregon. [00:01:17] Speaker A: Ish. [00:01:18] Speaker B: Welcome to Becoming Church. [00:01:20] Speaker A: Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here today. [00:01:23] Speaker B: Yeah, we're excited, too. So your bio on Instagram says that you are a contemporary theologian. What does that mean to you? [00:01:33] Speaker A: Yeah, so basically that means I work through theology, kind of attempting to look at current world problems and issues and saying, okay, how does the Bible speak to. To these things? And how does the Bible inform how Christians are supposed to interact and engage and show up as the body of Christ in. In current world issues? And yeah, it's a challenge. And I'm not. I'm not an expert at it. I think theologian people, you know, it's like, oh, then you. You really know what you're doing. And I think we're all, um. We're all still learning and we're all. [00:02:20] Speaker B: Do any of us really know what we're doing? [00:02:22] Speaker A: Right. Right. [00:02:23] Speaker B: No, I would say no. I want to listen to the people that say, I don't fully know what I'm doing. Those are actually my favorite leaders and voices to listen to. So I appreciate that. Well, so do you ever run across. And I did not prep you for this question, but do you ever run across people as you're trying to, like, bring scripture to current events or pop culture or things like, of the world right now, which is truly what I think we should be doing, who try to come at you with, like, the whole, you know, be in the world, but not of the world. Is that Something that you feel like you butt up against. [00:02:58] Speaker A: I don't feel like I hit that often. I think sometimes there's this sense of. Yeah, like, we don't. Maybe from a different lens, like you don't. You don't need to speak to that, or you don't need to ask questions about that, or like that's, that's something that Jesus doesn't. You actually care about. And I'm like, I. I think he does. I really think he does. And so, yeah, I mean, well, it's typically trying to just search. Right. Like, you know, I found myself when. When I was in school studying theology in Biblical studies, I found that my professors were so. To talk about really difficult things, like, what does it mean to be someone who struggles with gender dysphoria? When much of the church was saying being trans is false, I found my church, or I found my. My professor saying, no, gender dysphoria is a real issue that, that people struggle with. [00:04:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:16] Speaker A: And Christ desires to walk with those people. [00:04:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:20] Speaker A: And so how. How does Christ walk with those people? And, and, and I just found, like, there's this gap where it's like the church was like, either there. It's like these two sides. It was like, either fully running towards this, like, legalistic view where we couldn't talk about anything, as if none of us truly struggle, which is not true. And then there's the progressive view that was saying, well, scripture's not authoritative, so we can just throw it out. And it was like, no, they're like, I have seen Jesus meet people in the middle of those two things, saying, both, I am compassionate for you and over you in your situation, and I care to meet you in your humanity. But then also say, but if you are submitting to me, you're also submitting to my way of life, trusting that true freedom is found through submission. And so just trying to explore truly, what does that mean? Because I think it gives freedom to both sides. It gives freedom to those who've been stuck in legalism, and it gives freedom to those who've been, like, mesmerized by progressivism. But it also is difficult. It's difficult life with Christ. I think John, John 30 or John 16:30 is like one of the verses, I'll always keep with me, which is, in this world, you will have trouble. But take heart, I've overcome the world. It's like, yeah, if you're going to be a follower of Christ, you're gonna. It's gonna be hard. [00:06:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:00] Speaker A: It's not gonna Be easy. So. [00:06:02] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I know that it can be a lonely place to be, like, quote unquote, in the middle of these two kind of extreme sides. So just your voice and what you're doing, trying to kind of bridge the gap and bring everybody back to Jesus, who is also, I think, in the middle of extremes. [00:06:20] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, it's hard work, but it's also. And again, I'm not, you know, I'm 29, so I'm stumbling through it. [00:06:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:30] Speaker A: But it's also. I've seen a more clear picture of Christ through the work, and so it's been a. It's also been a blessing to do. [00:06:40] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Well, your book. Can I say that? I have it right here. It's been out for a few months now. Is there anything surprising, like, now that people have read it and you're kind of hearing feedback, was there anything surprising that you did not expect? [00:06:59] Speaker A: I didn't expect so many people to find it a heavy read. And I think maybe it's. I think that's unfair. But also at the same time, when it's, like, when it's your story, that's the norm. And so when I was writing it, I really didn't think a lot of the narratives were that heavy or difficult to kind of work through. And then I remember asking Preston to write the foreword, and when he came back with his reply, I was like, oh, it was. I didn't know it was hard to read. I didn't know there were. You know, I just didn't think that it would be so emotional for a lot of people. So that's really surprised me. And then I think just the kindness of the reception. I've been just absolutely blown away by the amount of people who have chosen to. To read it, and then just the kindness that people responded in. You know, it's. It's not a perfect work. It's very human. Yeah, it's very human work. And I guarantee you it got things wrong in that book, and yet people have still chosen to tell other people about it. And I think that's really kind. [00:08:25] Speaker B: So I think it is very honest and vulnerable and raw to. To a certain degree. But I totally. It totally makes sense, right, that you're like, well, this is my lived experience. And so I was just sharing stories. But I think for a lot of people who have a different lived experience than you, maybe this was a lens into, oh, even that same reminder. Right. Of other people experience God differently than I do. Other people have had church experience. That does not mirror mine. And so I'm wondering if the kindness that you've experienced from people, do you see it maybe leading to compassion or like empathy of hearing other people's stories? [00:09:09] Speaker A: You know, I hope so. I hope that's what it's leading to. I think we all operate under assumptions oftentimes or we just, we want people to be compassionate towards us and then we, we just want people to be clear when we're working with them and we don't know, we don't know what people have gone through and what they've experienced and how Christ has been represented towards them. And so my hope is that maybe when people look at it, they, I don't know. They don't, when they look at queer kids, they, they stop and go, oh, there's like a, there's a whole story there. Instead of writing them off or when they look at people who really actively struggle with mental health, they don't put, try to attempt to put them into one box. They understand that it's a complex issue. Yeah, that, that takes a lot. [00:10:20] Speaker B: So yeah, I think it's no matter what the label is that want people want to put on someone else. I think what I hear you saying is like we have to see people's humanity first. We have to see their imago day first and how they were created and called good, you know, by God from the very beginning of their story, in the very beginning of their lives. [00:10:41] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I mean, and I think we're all learning that. We're all trying and yeah, I guess I think my biggest hope with the book was not trying to clean up my story so that it was presentable, but attempting to be as honest as what was appropriate. I just think there's so many car washed stories within the church that don't that make other people feel hopeless. Right. Like if you don't see yourself represented in someone else, how, how will you know that Christ can do things for you, that Christ can heal you, that Christ can rescue you, that Christ can be with you. And so I, I really think that my hope was just okay, I'm going to be really honest and there's probably going to be implications with that. People probably won't necessarily want to work with me because of the, some of the issues that I've walked through and walked through recently being, you know, within ministry. But I, I still felt like God was saying, I want you to say this so that the other Christian ministers who also are suicidal, who also have overdosed can see that God's still there, that God's still working and it's okay to say those things out loud. [00:12:22] Speaker B: Yeah, well, and for Christians, whether they're in ministry or just Jesus followers, if they have a, like you said, a car wash, like squeaky clean life, if that's their experience and their story, there are lots of examples out there, you know, of people, people at least putting out that Persona. And so I'm just proud of you, like, thank you for following God's leading of saying, hey, no, I want you to share the messy parts and the hard parts and the parts that might get you canceled because that, that was obedience for you to follow into the path that God is saying, hey, we're gonna talk about all these things because there are other people that need that version of him. [00:13:04] Speaker A: Thank you. That's really, that's really kind. [00:13:07] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I, the, the book is about how unsafe questions lead us to the real God. And I know for a lot of people, like, I was not really raised being curious or asking a lot of questions, which I think a lot of our listeners were just like, the Bible says it, God said it. It's in the Bible, like it's true. So the end. Have you always been a curious person or did you kind of have to learn how to ask questions as well? [00:13:32] Speaker A: I think of all, yeah, I think I've always been curious. I think I've always been someone who just wants depth over, over everything else. And I think that was really evident to the people who are around me always growing up. But I, I wrestled with. Yeah. With this false sense of cleanliness in Christian circles when I was growing up was like, man, you know, when I just remember in youth group once thinking we were talking about, it was like relationships and all the girls in my small group were just talking about boys that they had crushes on. It was kind of like that. And it was like, hey, if you struggle with lust, that's normal, but also God is there for you. And I was like, well, what about me? Like, I can't, you know, if I told everyone here, like, well, I have a crush on a girl, that's. I felt like that wasn't invited. [00:14:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:14:38] Speaker A: At that point in time. And so when, when in reality, all lust is lust. Right. Like, right when, when in reality God desires to help people, whether they're same sex attractive, attracted or opposite attracted or, or they deal with something else. We all have brokenness in, in this world. And so I think I really, really wrestled with, okay, who do I have these conversations with if I, if I can't have them in the church, then I guess I have to have them outside the church. And so that's kind of how like my worldview is being informed by people who didn't have relationships with Jesus because that's who I found cared enough to talk with me about those things instead of rejecting me. And I mean, my story's in the book and it obviously turns out different. I somehow land here with, you know, hopefully a life submitted to Christ. But yeah, it's just a huge ache that I have recognized, like looking back on my past, recognizing, oh, we all hold these questions. And I was curious and it didn't felt. It didn't feel like I could ask these things within the church. So I had to go ask them somewhere else. It wasn't that I shut down the questions altogether. They were still being said. They just weren't being said in, in what I would say is the correct worldview, to be honest. Right. Yeah, yeah. And, and yeah. So I mean, as I got older, I think the Lord, the Lord, I think the Lord used them. I was really kind of snarky when I was in school studying theology. I was 21 at the time and I thought I just knew everything. And that's when I started the podcast which was asking, is called Can I say that? Asking, Engaging with culture in a post Christian world. Asking questions we normally don't ask within the church. And I found people who loved the Lord, who had gnarly stories about porn addiction, about experiencing gender dysphoria, about drug use, about purity culture, about same sex attraction, about just a plethora of things that they were willing to say out loud and say how Christ met them. And my hope was just, oh, would people see that if we claim that Christ has the answers, if Christ is truth, then no question and no sense of curiosity is off limits. It really is the best place to have those taboo conversations. [00:17:57] Speaker B: So how would you encourage Brenna, the church? So if there's like either pastors or youth group leaders or even parents, you know, other caregivers listening who hear what you're saying and they're open to it, but also are like, I don't know how to engage in these conversations. I don't know what to say. I don't know what to do. Like, how do we gently, you know, make a little bit wider maybe what the narrow thing is that's being taught in the churches. [00:18:28] Speaker A: Yeah. So one, I would just say give yourself permission to not have the answers. Right. I think that's. We really don't want to engage in curious conversations that feel taboo when we don't feel like we have everything together because we feel like we're letting Christ down or we're letting our biblical convictions down. And what I would say to you is, that's unfair. If you did not go to school to study the sexual ethics that show up in the biblical text and you didn't get your PhD in that, it's unfair to hold the expectations to yourself that you would have all the right answers. But what's really beautiful about that is I find that Christ desires to use maybe not the best term, but the long game, which is relationship. And so when you enter into these conversations, whether it's your kids or it's youth group kids, or it's college kids or it's someone who's brand new to church, is being able to sit there and go, I love that you are asking this question. I have no idea what the answer is. I would love to walk with you and find out. I know some people who I can ask for resources or I know some resources that already exist. Let's go through them together. And I'm excited to learn with you because that's the, that's the thing. I think people get nervous when it's like, oh, man, these, these boundaries that I felt existed, someone's pushing against them. If they're shaky, then they're probably not in Christ. Right? Like, if we believe Christ is a solid foundation, then we might have the wrong foundation laid on certain issues. And it is okay to. To learn. It's okay to go, oh, I had the wrong view on that. I had the wrong perception. I had the wrong answer. And to walk in humility with that and to just walk with people. And again, I would also say when people ask you these questions, just remember they're not theological issues to be solved. They're people who are deeply loved by Christ, who are a gift to you. It's a gift to have people who, one, just are willing to ask those questions and two, who kind of allow us to recheck our. The landscape of what we. Of what we believe. And even if you end up at the very end of it all, if you end up walking separate ways in, like, the questions that you've asked, I think about sexuality is often one that I get asked about. And I have kids who end up saying, well, I believe in affirming scholars, or I don't believe in Jesus at all. Therefore, I'm not going to submit my life to a sexual ethic. I still learned in those Relationships. And a lot of them I still have, and those are cherished friends that I still believe are gifts from God, even if we don't believe the same thing. So just, I think really, overall, just taking the pressure off yourself and saying, this person is a gift, their questions are a gift. It's not on me to have all the answers and we can take it one step at a time. I think that will really change the, maybe the tone of how Christians have been seen to interact with, to. To a more, hopefully a more Christ like picture. [00:22:43] Speaker B: I think Christians often confuse, like, the foundation of what Christianity is, and we think that our faith is actually built on certainty. Christians tend to think like, well, our faith is built on knowing what the Bible means and knowing what all of these scriptures are and knowing the answers to the questions where I actually think that that certainty is the very thing that gets in the way of the relationship that you're talking about. Because, yeah, you can't be open to having a relationship with somebody when you are convinced or you are certain that there is something wrong about them or that you are sent to be the one to, quote, unquote, save them. Do you ever. Do you ever, like, come up against that where people just feel like they're missing it because their only goal is just to kind of save people or remove them from whatever they're considering to be the sin or the brokenness or the wrong thing? [00:23:39] Speaker A: Yeah, I think there. I mean, there's an urgency in that. Urgency is. I have to remember, oftentimes it's from a place of fear. [00:23:49] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:23:50] Speaker A: And so it's not, not this. I don't know, I tend to maybe be judgmental or look down on people with that, with that sense of urgency. And then I have to step back and go, no, wait a second. There's. Because they love this person or because they've seen something go terribly wrong in their life, there's a. There's fear. And fear is real. And we can all relate to fear. There's usually a different route there as well. Right. There's usually some sense of, again, going back to the simple belief about, you know, it's not our job to save people. We are not the Holy Spirit. We can't. We can't convict people. [00:24:37] Speaker B: Right. [00:24:38] Speaker A: We can't. Like, that's the thing. And so I think, I think through those interactions that I've had going, okay, it's not. It's not that they really want to be in control of this situation. It's more that there's maybe a Fear or a lack of trust. And how do I encourage that person in that area of life? And we've all been. We've all been through that. We've all felt like, I know works don't save me. I know works don't save other people, but maybe, right? Maybe. Yes. Yeah. [00:25:19] Speaker B: So for the person listening, that's on the other side, right? Maybe it is a kid, a teen, an adult even, who is wrestling with things that they feel like they cannot take into their churches. What encouragement do you have for those people who are listening besides reading your book, which would be an excellent tool for them? [00:25:41] Speaker A: I think the first thing I would say is bring it, bring it to God. And I know that sounds so cliche, but I think there's a lot of. We have conversations in our head that are so cyclical, right? Where it's like, it's just stuck between you and you. You and your brain. And I think pausing and going, okay, God, I know you care about me, and this is an issue in my life. And so if it's an issue in my life, then I also know you care about it. Yeah, that's the first thing. It's just lots of conversations with the Lord, listening conversations. And the second thing I'd say is, ask God, Lord, is there someone in my life who might be a good first step person to have this conversation? Would you highlight that person and then walk into that conversation knowing that they are also human and they might not react well? And that's not an embodiment of Christ. It's an embodiment of the humanity that we all wrestle with. And then third is always my kind of cheeky response. But it's when you are in the church, you are also the church. And so I think I walk into spaces and I'm like, oh, I wish X, Y, and Z was different. Or I wish they tackled this. And I think oftentimes our game plan is like, well, I'm just gonna go try and find a different church that fits it. And I think I'm trying to spread, preach this to myself and say, no, no, no, wait. Before you just dip out, remember that you are also part of the church. And so when we choose to voice these things, some people might find them subversive, but that might be what's needed. Right? Like, I don't think rocking the boat is always inappropriate. I think oftentimes, Right. Like, there's a difference between being a peacemaker and a peacekeeper. And we're called to be peacemakers, which implies there are things to Be done, intention to be had. Not trying to hold everything in the building still so it's not shaking, but going, okay. Like we're walking towards something. [00:28:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:28:35] Speaker A: And so, yeah. My last encouragement is just pray for courage and be, be willing to listen to this Holy Spirit. When the Holy Spirit says. Say it out loud. Yeah, say it out loud. [00:28:55] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. There are definitely. I mean, there's no. We can't grow. There's no spiritual growth without challenge, without a little bit of discomfort. Is if we just stay. Theologically, you can apply this to anything. Right. But if we just stay exactly where we are, knowing what we've always known, doing what we've always done, we are going to be the people that we've always been. Like, there will be no, there will be no growth without that. So we definitely need some, some disruptors. [00:29:22] Speaker A: Yes. [00:29:23] Speaker B: You know. [00:29:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:29:24] Speaker B: You wrote about wanting in the book. You wrote about wanting to love others but disliking yourself. And I know that there's a real tension in that of really truly wanting to love other people, but not being able to fully do that until you're able to, like, grasp how much you're loved. How did God kind of get through to you on the way that these two things pair together? [00:29:48] Speaker A: Oh, that's a good question. Yeah. So, you know, I think I, I tried. I. I sometimes pride myself on being someone who is like, I don't know. I think there's a gospel of self love. And that gospel is half. Half truth. It's not. Yeah, there's. There's a lot to be said there. And so. But also wrestling with. We ourselves are image bearers. And so we sit with this idea that we're like, we do not cause harm to God's image and his image bearers. We. That's something that I'm deeply passionate about, this sense of humanity and dignity for all people, even if they're not they themselves committed to Christ. But then there's an issue if you're treating yourself a way that you want to treat someone else. Okay. And I've found that. And I'm still. I'm still really wrestling through this in real time. But I found that you're not able to operate well and fully in the way that God has called you to operate well and fully. If you're being abusive towards yourself or neglectful towards yourself. When we go, when we're encouraged by someone and you're like, oh, that. I don't think that person believes that for themself. [00:31:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:48] Speaker A: And. And that's not A good. This, as much as this kind of sucks to say it's not a good representation of Christ. Right. Like, when someone's sitting there who's just really struggling and they're trying to encourage you and you're like, oh, but, but what about, like, why don't you believe it for yourself? Yeah, that's a hard thing. And so I think as I'm learning this in real time, I'm recognizing there's a, like, maintenance, almost like allowing yourself. It's like in Zephaniah, where it says God sings over you. Allowing yourself to be loved by God and then respect yourself with that knowledge that Christ deeply loves you a lot. It's like getting your oil changed. You're. You're at. You're in a place of health and you can actually minister to other people. Whereas when that's not going well, your car is going to stall out. [00:33:01] Speaker B: Right. [00:33:02] Speaker A: And you're not going to be able to. To walk in. In what God has called you to when you don't have these kind of foundational things laid out that took me a while to get to. My brain was pretty foggy with that one. [00:33:16] Speaker B: That's okay. Well, and it just goes back to even what you were saying about the gift of somebody else's presence in our lives. Right? Because if you, I think, are struggling to see how God made you, anybody that is struggling to. And I deal with the same exact insecurities where I'm like, I know God loves you through all of this. Me, like, it's harder for me to swallow that pill, you know, But I think that's where true relationships, where other people can see us in spite of our brokenness, our mess, whatever struggles we're dealing with, those people are a gift because they can help us to see. Hey, you are forgetting about the grace of God in your life. Hey, you are forgetting that, you know, you already have the forgiveness of Jesus and can kind of remind us of the things that we probably know in our heads. We're just having a hard time remembering in our hearts, you know? [00:34:14] Speaker A: Yes. [00:34:15] Speaker B: Well, you recently did a post and this is, I think, kind of connected on Instagram about disappointment and about disappointing people. And it was very matter of fact, which I really appreciated. You were like, hey, sometimes I'm gonna disappoint you. And I have also kind of struggled through some criticism and realizing, like, this is a reality, you know. But I think for a lot of people listening, they still really struggle with the idea of knowingly disappointing people. How did you get to that Place where you were like, this is a reality that I can accept. [00:34:52] Speaker A: Oh, I mean, I'm still trying to get there. [00:34:54] Speaker B: Sure. [00:34:59] Speaker A: I think it was the sheer amount of going. Even if I tried to make everyone happy or to. To say yes to every opportunity, like, I physically could not. I emotionally could not. There just has to be boundaries and people. There will be. There will always be people who are deeply gracious towards your boundaries, and there will always be people who are hurt by your boundaries. [00:35:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:29] Speaker A: And being able to protect your mental and emotional health, your family, your money, your time requires those boundaries. And then outside of boundaries is just a realistic thing that because I'm human, I'm going to be wrong. I'm going to get things wrong or I'm going to. I'm going to have moments of. Hopefully not much, but moments where you miss the mark. And it's like, oh, I was rude, or I did look past this person, or the way I said that my tone was not appropriate or I was harsh towards this person. Like, we will all walk through that. And I think the more we're able to uphold this shattered picture of ourselves as a. As just fact, the less likely we are to have idolization by people. As much as I would love to be liked by everyone, that's kind of a woe to you statement right? In the Bible, one, and then two. I think it's just. It's. Yeah, it's just not. It's not real. And. And it. And it. It creates a false sense of whenever someone's tempted to make anyone an idol, that's. That's a sin. And so if I can try and get ahead of it, one, get ahead of my ego and try to constantly remind myself like, you are not it. You are not. You are not everything. You're not even close to everything. And you've gotten things wrong, and you will get things wrong. And not everyone loves you, and that's okay. And it's not even like a. And I'm not everyone's cup of tea. And that's fine. It's like, no, like, I was just thinking about this last night. I was talking with a friend, and there's a sense of like, oh, man, sometimes I wish I was invited into certain rooms or certain places, and I think there's an attitude we can have that's like, well, I'm not for them, and that's kind of. And shame on them for not liking me, but it's fine. Rather than the reality being I'm not the best fit for everything I'M not the best fit for most things, and that's a really good thing. I should want the best fit to be the person teaching in those rooms. And I should deeply understand that a small fraction of the time it might be me, but most of the time it won't be. And that those people are doing God's work. And so, yeah, just try to wrestle through this. Always trying to. Yeah. Share. Share my faults in appropriate ways to remind people that anyone with a platform is not worth idolizing. [00:39:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:39:30] Speaker A: And to. We're not. Yeah, we're not. We don't have to be the. We shouldn't be the star of our own story. [00:39:39] Speaker B: Yeah, well, there's freedom in that, too. I think it was really profound what you just said. Like, you're not the right person for every situation. I'm not the right person for every situation. And there's freedom in knowing that, of going like, no God is gifted or called someone else into this. And so it's great. That's actually great that other people. I don't have to be everything to everybody. But I also just feel like, Brenna, you are good at saying the thing out loud. You know, like you said, listening to the Holy Spirit prompting of, like, say the thing out loud. And that's one of those things, especially on social media, where depending on people's feed, they can be curated. Very put together, very car washy, you know, very. Like, everything is the same. Echo chambery a little bit, but also just like, here's what we're doing and it's very holy and self righteous. And so sometimes when you can say things like this, I think you're actually taking thoughts that a lot of people have that are quite common and you're saying them out loud and that gives people permission to go, oh, right, me too. I also can. Can admit out loud that, like, I feel these same ways. [00:40:53] Speaker A: That's kind. Thank you. Thank you. [00:40:55] Speaker B: Well, last question for you. Since the podcast is called Becoming Church, how can people maybe use questions or whatever else to become the church to the people around them? [00:41:06] Speaker A: Yeah. Again, it just comes back to people are, are dying to see how Christ can work in their own life. And when you choose to be honest with your story, or even we say story, and it's kind of like your testimony what's been in the past, but when you're willing to say what you're wrestling through now, it just creates a reality that Christ has shown up and he continues to show up and he continues to work. Right. Sanctification. It is a Journey. It is a walk. It is. It is life on the narrow path that is a long, long walk with bumps and bruises along the way. I think one of my. You know, one of the most profound realizations I've had in the last few years was Christianity is the only religion where the prize at the end is also the person that walks with you the entire world there. Right. [00:42:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:16] Speaker A: That's significant. He's the one who's pulling you up. And so just remember when you feel like, oh, I shouldn't, you know, I. My marriage is really, really hard right now, but I don't feel like I can share that because people know I'm a Christian. They know my spouse is a Christian. They think we're supposed to have it all together. Instead of holding it to yourself, saying. Choosing to say, oh, yeah, like, our marriage is really hard right now. And this is how Christ is. Is walking with us. And if you don't have a. This is how Christ is walking with us. Also recognizing that saying those things out loud is an opportunity for another person to be invited in. One, to pray for you, and two, to just encourage you and. And be that accountability and saying, hey, keep going, keep going. It's gonna be okay. At the end of the day, Christ is here with us. It just. Honesty allows the church to be the church, I think. [00:43:26] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah. Well. And it allows. Yeah. Other people to remind us of what's real and what's true when there are other voices in our head maybe trying to point us to other things or go back to fear. Right. Or to distract us away from. Yeah. Where God is actually walking with us right now in every situation. Well, Brenna, thank you for being here. I'm cheering you on. I so appreciate your voice and appreciate your time. We'll link up your book so everybody can read it and your Instagram and all that so they can follow along with you there as well. [00:44:00] Speaker A: Well, I really. I really enjoyed spending the morning with you, so thank you so much for having me. Of course. [00:44:11] Speaker B: You are so loved. You were created in the image of God, and He did not make any mistakes when he brought you into this world right now in this exact time frame. He knows your strengths and he knows your struggles. He knows your secrets and the lies that you are tempted to believe that tell you that you are alone or helpless or too far gone. God wants to speak to you, and I believe that he already is. My prayer is that you will hear his voice in unexpected places and see him in places that you were told he couldn't exist. If you're struggling to find a church community nearby, go to the Instagram post where we are highlighting this episode in Drop the city where you live in the comments. Hopefully we can come together from all across the country to recommend churches and church communities for each other. If you are local to Charlotte, we would love to walk with you at Mosaic where we affirm your identity as a beloved child of God. I hope your eyes are open this week to someone who needs your unique version of God and that you'll have the courage to speak love into their life and let your presence be the gift that they need. Thanks so much for listening and until next time, keep becoming the church to the people around.