Figuring Out What to Believe: Yasmine Al-Bustami

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:10] Speaker B: Have you ever started talking to a stranger in a weird place, like a public bathroom, maybe, only to have it turn into a friendship? Usually, people walk away from me, but this time it did lead me to this conversation and one of my favorite episodes yet. I'm Kristen Machler Young, and this is Becoming Church, the podcast where we discuss how the message and movement of Jesus is not just about becoming Christians, but about becoming the church. My guest today is Yasmin Alboustami, who you may know as Lucy from NCIS Hawaii or as Raymah from the Chosen. And yes, I did first talk to her in the bathroom at Chosen Con. I'm pretty sure I opened with something real eloquent like, so is it weird if I talk to you in the bathroom? Or is it more weird if I pretend not to know who you are and don't talk to you in the bathroom? And somehow that passed the vibe check. So Yaz is here today to talk all about faith, religion, and what the Chosen has taught her about Christianity. Yasmin, hello. Welcome to the Becoming Church podcast. [00:01:12] Speaker A: Thank you for having me, Kristen. [00:01:15] Speaker B: Yes, I love that I just welcomed you as if we have not been talking for 15 minutes already about. [00:01:20] Speaker A: It's always so weird when that happens, right? Because then sometimes I'm like, oh, man, I really want to see. When I'm watching podcasts, I actually don't mind seeing the. Before the stuff is happening, you know, when. Like, before the recording. [00:01:33] Speaker B: Because, yeah, behind the scenes is sometimes good, but also behind the scenes sometimes is like, you know, it's just getting comfortable with each other. And so then people say things that maybe they don't want on the air. So I try not to do that too much. [00:01:46] Speaker A: That's true. If I started well, then that's. That's on them. They should probably have not have said it. And they can tell you if. If they don't want it in there. But if I had a podcast, I probably would make it super awkward and. And then just whoever I'm talking to, I wouldn't even try to make them feel comfortable. I'd probably just be like, okay, we're going to go right into it. Let's see what happens. And then we'll see. [00:02:08] Speaker B: You know, you're like, hey, P.S. we've already been recording and everything that you've said is already aired. So. [00:02:14] Speaker A: Yep. Jokes on you. No, I would do that. [00:02:18] Speaker B: Well, thank you for being here. I also love that. I mean, even just speaking of recording, you were like, don't send me questions. I'm not Going to look at. I don't care. It's fine. [00:02:27] Speaker A: No, because that's. I know. I do like the. Just the natural back and forth. I never want to feel too rehearsed with stuff, you know, and then apologies that I'm in my car. I tried. Internet sucks. [00:02:40] Speaker B: You're good at the world. [00:02:42] Speaker A: I'm using the world's Internet. [00:02:43] Speaker B: You're good. That's Starbucks letting us down, man. [00:02:46] Speaker A: Oh, God. [00:02:47] Speaker B: Yeah, that's all good. Well, let's start with a really quick fire, like Q and A. So for people that maybe aren't super familiar with you or with the chosen yet. Um, so just some fun, like, light things. We'll get started. [00:02:59] Speaker A: Kristin, I don't know if I'm familiar with myself even. [00:03:02] Speaker B: Are you still learning? [00:03:06] Speaker A: Yeah. You'll probably get. You'll probably know me after this more than I know myself. You can teach me something about myself that I didn't. I didn't know before. [00:03:13] Speaker B: I will take notes, and I will send them back to you after. [00:03:16] Speaker A: Thank you. Those notes I will read. Okay. [00:03:18] Speaker B: Perfect. [00:03:19] Speaker A: Perfect. [00:03:20] Speaker B: All right, first one. If you could swap roles with another cast member on the Chosen, who would it be? [00:03:25] Speaker A: Oh, little James. [00:03:27] Speaker B: Oh, Jordan. I love him. Why? Why little James? [00:03:30] Speaker A: He's so sweet. Because I love him, and he's funny, and he just hangs out with the guys, and he's the one that pulls the pranks, and I want to pull pranks as much as he does, and he's so good at it. And I'm. I'm actually thinking character. Yes. But I guess I'm thinking more of the person. I wouldn't mind living his life for a little bit. [00:03:48] Speaker B: Yeah, he's awesome. He's awesome. It's so funny that you and Liz both brought up Jordan Walker Ross as your, like, person to talk about on the show. And so I told him that when. When I met him a couple months ago, I was like, they just love you. Everybody just loves you. [00:04:02] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I mean, we've spent so many years together, and day in and day out, nights, day, like, all. All the time. And we've just gotten to know each other, and he's just such. He. I mean, everybody is. You know, everyone's amazing, but you just. You have these conversations with certain people, and there's just so many of us that it's hard to be super, super close with every single person. But he just was someone, I think maybe because we're both from Dallas, we bonded over the Dallas Cowboys, and so we would watch the games together, and it was also during COVID And so I just have a very soft spot for. For him in that regard. But that's the thing, is every single person has their own story of how you connect with. How connected you are with them, why you're connected with them. You have your different relationships with every single person. And so I think it's, you know, probably the Texas that just made it feel like home, especially during COVID when we started or when I came on board, at least. Yeah, I love that. [00:05:01] Speaker B: No, I love these little glimpses of, like, hey, remember, these are real people. Like, real human people portraying. [00:05:08] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Because sometimes people confuse your character with. That's you. And, like, I don't. I mean, it's nice because I do like Rhema, but also. Yeah. Not. Not me entirely. Right, right. [00:05:22] Speaker B: Okay. Who on set breaks character the quickest? [00:05:26] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. There's. There's a lot of. I feel like Jordan would be one. I know that I have. I have. Oh, man. The quickest. Because we all. I'm going to say Jordan again. Okay. All right. [00:05:46] Speaker B: All right, we'll take it. What is something from set that you wish you could take home? [00:05:52] Speaker A: The. That necklace that Raymond wears. That's a really cool necklace. Yeah. [00:06:00] Speaker B: Have you been on set? What's that? [00:06:02] Speaker A: Have you been on set? [00:06:04] Speaker B: No. Yourself. Have you visited to come? [00:06:07] Speaker A: Yeah. Why can't you come? You can come. I could relax. [00:06:12] Speaker B: Perfect. I'll make it happen. [00:06:14] Speaker A: We just said it right here. Yeah. And you can. [00:06:19] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:06:20] Speaker A: Well, [00:06:23] Speaker B: I love it. [00:06:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:06:25] Speaker B: What if you could describe rhema in one word, what would you say? [00:06:31] Speaker A: Oh, I know. This is rapid fire. [00:06:33] Speaker B: Okay. You say as many words. [00:06:35] Speaker A: Genuine. [00:06:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:39] Speaker A: Yeah. Love her. [00:06:42] Speaker B: Do you think she would have been more BFFs with, like, Mary Mags or Tamar? [00:06:49] Speaker A: Oh, man. I think Mary Mags, because again, kind of what we were talking about earlier, of the different relationships that you have with people with Mary Mags, obviously, she kind of. She has so much wisdom and she's kind of teaching, and Rayma does not have as much life that she's lived, so she's kind of learning about life through her. And I think she just has a lot of fun with tomorrow, too, and they're all learning together. So. [00:07:21] Speaker B: Last quick fire question for you. If you think Raymond could say one more thing, like, in the group chat to all the disciples and everybody, what would it be? What would she say? [00:07:32] Speaker A: We're all talking, like, disciples. [00:07:34] Speaker B: Well, you're talking to them. [00:07:35] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. In, like, WhatsApp. [00:07:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:07:38] Speaker A: And like, a texting Thread. I picked up the berries today, guys. That was the first thing that popped up. Yeah, she wants them to know. So then that way in case they're hungry, come by, come buy the tent, get the berries. [00:07:56] Speaker B: I love it. [00:07:57] Speaker A: I love it. [00:07:58] Speaker B: Genuine, helpful. She just is like, yeah, you guys need, I'm here. [00:08:03] Speaker A: She wants them to be fed, you know. Yeah. Maintained and healthy. Wrong. [00:08:09] Speaker B: Yep, Wrong. Okay, well, before we talk more about Rhema, I want to know more about Yasmin. So you grew up around multiple faith traditions. I believe both Islam and Christianity. So what does faith feel like for you growing up? [00:08:25] Speaker A: Well then, because I, I did grow up in those two, but then I also grew up in Texas, which is another kind of faith. [00:08:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:08:33] Speaker A: I believe in, in its own or on its own, and also even within specifically Dallas, Texas. But there are just so many different types of Christianity within it. Within that spectrum too. Yeah. So I had friends, my parents. Yes. My dad was Muslim, my mom's Catholic. And then I also had friends who were Presbyterian, who were Baptist, who, you know, just came from so many different religions, maybe not even really religious, but would call themselves Christians, but then wouldn't go to church. And so then there's that variety. So I, and I was learning from them also because I think what I took from home was the, the dominant religion. Growing up, my dad really wanted to instill Islam into me and my sister, mom still super Catholic, but we would go to mosque, we'd go to church, and we celebrated both religions holidays, which I loved. And I never, I, I never was confused until for instance, my, if I were, unless I were trying to explain it to my friends again, I'm just a child trying to grow up. Yeah. And my friends would maybe ask me questions and because of those questions or their confusion, it would lead me to feel confusion within myself or feeling like I was doing something wrong or not doing something right. And then I went through phases where I'd be mad that I am, I'm in a two religion households because I'm like, okay, well now that doesn't make sense to me. And then sometimes I'd be really proud about it, but I let a lot of outside noise dictate how I was feeling about it. So I went through a bunch of that and I had to again learn about myself. That was one of the things where that was a constant growing up, even into adulthood. [00:10:33] Speaker B: So yeah. [00:10:36] Speaker A: Yeah, that's how I feel. And then now I love all religion. I love learning about religion. I love going to. I don't necessarily. I used to love going to religious establishments just to see how everyone prays and what's. What. I don't know. It's just fun for me. It's like a field trip because it's. Because everyone does things differently. Even if it's the same religion. It's like, oh, you do this and you do. But what. But through all of that and through conversations, I love talking about religion too. Just randomly, anywhere of people of all faiths. But through all of that, I just learned more so how similar everybody is and how similar every religion, all the religions are to each other. And so then I now then I just question, like, I'm at the point now I'm like, why are you all. Why is everyone so angry and mad? You know? [00:11:28] Speaker B: Yes, excellent question. Yeah, I love that your parents also did not put you in a spot where like, they were like, okay, choose one. Like, they just gave you a variety of things and let you kind of figure it out on your own. I think that's beautiful. [00:11:44] Speaker A: Yeah, I thought. Yeah, I think so too. And you know, I didn't, I didn't really appreciate that as much until I became an adult. And then talking to people who their parents would divorce because they, they couldn't make it work because they were different religion. And so it's not until, you know, other people kind of pointed it out to me. I just thought, my parents are still together and for instance, just like an example, sitting at the dinner table sometimes if we were talking about something in the Quran, then my mom would bring some. My mom would bring something up that's in the Bible and be like, she, you know, same story. Then we talk about it. Or if it's just a little bit different, if there's a variety, or maybe it's not even in the Bible or in the Quran, we would just have a discussion about it. And nobody was wrong. It was more so just sharing, telling, sharing. What is it? Show and tell time? I guess. But yeah, it wasn't until people would tell me about, maybe they grew up the same way, but their parents didn't make it, unfortunately, just because they couldn't get it to work. And so not until I met more and more people like that did I realize, wow, that's kind of cool. I like that my parents were able to do that. [00:13:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:13:03] Speaker A: Yeah, well. [00:13:04] Speaker B: And I think too, even as a pastor, I think people sometimes don't love that I say this, but I'm like, if you force. [00:13:10] Speaker A: Even better. I'm so excited. [00:13:13] Speaker B: Forcing them into a religion is not actually what it's about the whole idea is. [00:13:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:13:18] Speaker B: Choice. Like if you're not choosing what you believe and why, like, it's not. It's not real. [00:13:26] Speaker A: Yeah. It's not real. No. So why do people hate that you say that? Because I feel like that makes sense in my mind. [00:13:32] Speaker B: Yeah. I think because. Because people like Yasmin, people like clarity and people like to know what box you fit into and they like to be able to label you. And so they go like, no, if you're a Christian, then you think everyone should be a Christian. And so you should make everyone a Christian. And that is your work. From. Like, my work is not to force people to become something. My work is to introduce people to Jesus and to present what his teachings are. How they've changed my life, how I think they could change their life and then let them decide. Like, it's a relationship. It's not a. Hey, I'm gonna write Christian on a name tag and like slap it on your shirt. And then like, ta da. Now you are one. It doesn't work that way. [00:14:13] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I. I mean, I wholeheartedly agree. Because obviously, I mean, just think about it for yourself too. Where if I. If someone were to. To force anything. Not even just religion, just like, anything. If someone were. I don't like, I'm trying to think of, like, I. I'm not a big fan of. What's a food that I like? [00:14:38] Speaker B: All foods. [00:14:39] Speaker A: I was trying to think of, like, foods that I don't like. I'm not a big fan of milk chocolate. I'll eat it. But if someone were to forced down and forced me to eat a whole milk chocolate bar, then I would. I just would not. I would not enjoy it. [00:14:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:14:59] Speaker A: As much. And so I don't know why that made sense in my head. Sometimes you need to think before. Thanks. But I never know how things will come out. I just say, you know, and so that. I hope that makes sense. Um, but I was trying to make it into a more digestible kind of way. Puns. I also love puns. [00:15:23] Speaker B: No, totally force anything that's forced and is not a choice. I mean, to me that it just cannot be faith. Faith means you are choosing to believe in something. And if someone has told you this is what you have to believe, then that's not belief. That is religion, which is a whole. [00:15:37] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh. Oh, I like that. There is a difference. Yeah. [00:15:42] Speaker B: Has been part of the chosen, like changed the way. You know, you've already had all of these different experiences, like spiritual experiences. Has it Changed, like, have you. Has it helped you continue to think or to like, change the way you think about spirituality now? [00:15:57] Speaker A: Yeah, Heck, yeah. I think spirituality for me is always changing. And my faith, I don't want to. My faith is ever evolving. Going to set for me on the chosen. That's. It's like Bible study. Because I haven't read the Bible. I mean, you know, I've read here and there, but I haven't like, sat there. I've not studied it. I haven't read it from start to finish. So that's, that's like my reading the Bible is Bible study over there. And there are a lot of variations of people on set. A lot of them are religious. A lot of them are not so much. Or maybe practice a different religion, but, you know, everyone has different backgrounds. So the conversations, again, I love talking about religion. So the conversations that come up depending on what we're shooting or just naturally, it's. It's cool to be around people who are open to having those discussions because I guess some people, it's probably like a. No, no, you know, you're not supposed to talk about religion. I don't know. Again, Texan, I don't mind. Yeah, but then. Because then. Well, I was going to say the caveat is it's majority, I think Christianity here. I don't know. I haven't looked at stats, so unless you're talking about Christianity, but on set, it's really cool to see. What I like is that, you know, I'm not going to just one church. I'm surrounded by people who have had their own journeys, who have their own beliefs. So which is. That's what I like. I like to understand more of the worldly view of faith, spirituality, religion from real people who are also curious about it and who also share their opinions in a. In a nice way. [00:17:55] Speaker B: Yes. [00:17:56] Speaker A: And not an attacking, forceful way, because then, you know, because then you're hearing it. So it's just a really beautiful environment. Even if maybe people have disagreements about something, it's more. Again, it's the, It's. It's me at the dinner table with my parents sharing instead of saying, you're wrong, it's more so just like, oh, let me understand what, what that is. And then also taking the time instead of just saying someone's wrong or maybe disagreeing with their opinion. I find it fascinating to find out because I, I enjoy learning about people as well. There's a reason that they think or have come to where they're at, their beliefs. When we meet them, yes. At the time that we meet them. And so instead of judging, it's more so. And I've been trying to practice this for myself as well. It's more so of why that's, I'm so curious as to why you are where, where you're at now. Yeah, I find that, I find that part of the conversation very fascinating. I mean, because, you know, there are people who, since we're talking about religion, like why did someone convert if they started off this way, now they're another religion. So, you know, I love, I love learning about the people underneath the layer of faith and spirituality and religion. [00:19:28] Speaker B: Well, I think it, what you just described to me is like seeing that it's not all there is to a person. And I, a lot of times Christians especially, I think have a hard time with that understanding of like, yes, your faith can be deeply personal to you, but it is not the 100% like who you are as an identity. And the reason it can't be is because we have to be able to ask those questions and like have compassion to go, I don't understand why you believe what you believe. I even have this with other Christians who are reading the same Bible as me and I'm like, I don't understand how you can believe this based off of what you're reading. So I have to make myself have compassion and then get curious to go exactly what you said, like why? How did you get here? And that then to me can lead to so much more greater understanding and discussion and openness instead of what people tend to like to do is just argue and be like, I'm right and you're wrong. [00:20:29] Speaker A: Yeah. And that's it. [00:20:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:32] Speaker A: I don't know again, I don't know why, but openness, like what you were, gosh, I love, I love when people are open minded. I love meeting open minded folks. And sometimes unfortunately I don't because I've tried doing church, becoming church, I've tried doing it. I've tried to be that person. And I feel like when I'm in it for like say one establishment for a good while, thinking, oh, this is good, everything's, the people are amazing, everything's going awesome. I sometimes see more hypocrisy. [00:21:06] Speaker B: Yes. [00:21:06] Speaker A: In church than just at Walmart, you know? [00:21:09] Speaker B: Yes, I do. [00:21:10] Speaker A: Like, I'm like, at least the Walmart people are just like they're themselves. They're not pretending to be any. Yeah, yeah. And, and then going to church, people are just saying stuff. But then it's like, do you. Are you. Do you. Actually, it's the practice. Practicing what you reach, right? Yeah. [00:21:31] Speaker B: That's what we're trying to do here is like, our church is not perfect, and I don't do it perfectly. But that is kind of the goal of this podcast is like, hey, if you're going to call yourself a Christian and you're going to say that you follow Jesus and you're going to represent the church out into the world, like, buddy, you better make it look like him, you know? And so let's stop all of the. [00:21:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:21:49] Speaker B: And the arguing and the finger pointing and the blame and the, like, division and drawing lines and all of that. [00:21:55] Speaker A: It's so much. There's so much hate. Is your. Is your. So do y' all have a brick and mortar called Becoming Church? [00:22:02] Speaker B: So our church is called Mosaic. We've been around for 20 years. We just had our 20th anniversary. [00:22:09] Speaker A: Congrats. Yes. [00:22:10] Speaker B: Thank you so much. [00:22:11] Speaker A: When? [00:22:12] Speaker B: In January. 20 years. [00:22:14] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. Yeah. And you've been part of it for how many years? [00:22:18] Speaker B: 21. I was actually on the launch team Yasmin. It's crazy. I was a kindergarten teacher, and I was just a volunteer, and I lived here when, like, the team came up to start the church. And so then fast forward. I loved it, helped start it. I was a volunteer for a long time, came on staff, got ordained, the whole deal. [00:22:39] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. I know. How long have you been a pastor? I can't say sometimes that word because it comes out as pastor. So just depending. So I'm happy. I think that time it came out all right. [00:22:50] Speaker B: Pastor, Pastor, you did it. You did it. I got ordained in. When was in 2021. So I guess. What is it? So five years? [00:23:00] Speaker A: Did. Did something happen during COVID You were like, I need to look for you. Is that why you made the decision? [00:23:05] Speaker B: No, I was actually the opposite, where I was like, oh, no, I can't do this now. I came on staff in 2018 to lead a campus, and they offered me the role of pastor, and I was like, absolutely not. Do you know what you just said to me? Like, I'm just a random regular person. [00:23:22] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, are you sure? Do you. Are you aware? [00:23:25] Speaker B: Yeah. I was like, y'. [00:23:26] Speaker A: All. [00:23:26] Speaker B: Y. Y' all know me. Like, what are you doing? So took me a couple years of being on staff. I finally was like, okay. They saw something in me. I wrestled with God about it for a long time, and then I was like, all right, let's. Let's do this. So Then I became ordained. Yeah. [00:23:40] Speaker A: That's so cool. Do we love it? Do you wrestle with it now, or. Oh, heck yeah. [00:23:46] Speaker B: This is the hardest job I've ever had. [00:23:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:50] Speaker B: But I do. I really love it. Even when it's hard. I just feel like this is what I'm supposed to be doing. And I get to care about people and I get to talk about things that matter. And now I've developed a little bit of a platform that I can use for, like, social justice and loving our neighbors well. And speaking out that are doing damage in the name of Jesus. And I'm like, that's gross. We're not going to do that anymore. [00:24:12] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, God, that's so beautiful. I'm happy that. I love. I love. I didn't know that you were there for 21 years. Oh, my gosh. That's so cool. Wild. That's so cool. Yeah. So congrats. [00:24:23] Speaker B: Well, thank you. [00:24:23] Speaker A: Congrats on the 20th. Heck, yeah. [00:24:26] Speaker B: Super fun. Well, as you've been doing your Bible study on set. [00:24:30] Speaker A: Yes. [00:24:30] Speaker B: You go through these stories. Is there any character or person in particular that you found yourself kind of drawn to as you've, like, entered into this biblical world? [00:24:40] Speaker A: I mean, the whole narrative, it's like, I. But I'm over here, just. I'm like, basics. I'm. I'm asking questions, and sometimes I am embarrassed to ask these questions, but, like, I was just trying to get the books, and so, like, I'm. I'm like. New gospel or new test? New test. Thank you. There's the new one. There's the old one. And I'm like, why? Why? What's the difference? So then learning stuff about that, and then we're talking on set now about the Book of Acts. The whole time, Kristen. I thought we were. We've been talking about it for years, and I thought. I thought it was like, axe. Like a, X, E. Oh, yes. And then I Just recently. Just recently, I think it was at Chosen Con or some event where there was, you know, some. Some little video teaser of something. And then it said Book of Acts came up, and I was like, oh, that's. And I. I never questioned. I thought it was axe the whole time. So I learned that just recently. [00:25:44] Speaker B: Perfect. Oh, that's so perfect. [00:25:47] Speaker A: We were talking about. I was like, I wonder. Sounds so deadly in the Book of Acts because, my gosh, sounds like a rampage. So just that. I'm like, there's just so many. There's so. And then there's so many variations of the Bible at Chosen Con. I don't know if you were. Did you see the panel, Women of the Chosen? No. [00:26:07] Speaker B: That's when I was getting ready for all of the interviews on the teal carpet. So I missed all of them. [00:26:12] Speaker A: Okay. Okay. So there was a question that was asked to all of us, and it was, what's your favorite Bible version? Oh, like, my mind was blown. I was like, they're. I thought there was just one. There's. There's. So now then I learned that just one was Chosen Con February. So I just learned that. So I asked and I, like, Googled that, and I asked people. I'm like, well, I didn't even have to ask. I mean, I did have more conversations about it, but there were answers on set or on. On stage, and I was like. And, you know, these. These girls knew. I. I was just like, I had no idea. So it was just cool to find that out too. So it's just [00:27:02] Speaker B: that you're learning as you go. [00:27:04] Speaker A: I love it. Yeah. I really like that Chosen. I know people get mad about this, but that chosen has incorporated women. [00:27:13] Speaker B: It's my favorite thing. Are you kidding? [00:27:14] Speaker A: A lot. A lot of women into it, or I guess more so than is then. Then are named in the Bible. And that was something that I didn't wrestle with it really, but it wasn't until people asked me questions like, so what is it? How do you feel about not being in the Bible? And I'm like, what? And so I. I looked it up. I already knew that I wasn't in the Bible, but I just was so curious to see how many followers. Like, it made sense in my mind. I'm like, well, I'm sure Jesus just didn't have male followers. And I didn't know how prevalent female followers and how in the Bible they talk about. It talks about females. It's. I'm like, it's. I'm. I'm there. I'm just not named in the Bible. [00:28:06] Speaker B: Yes. Yes. [00:28:07] Speaker A: There are others of us, so it's cool. That was that. That I liked knowing that. I really enjoyed knowing that or learning that. [00:28:15] Speaker B: Have you yourself heard from people like, like, pushback about, like, the inclusion of women [00:28:22] Speaker A: if it's not directly in the book? Yeah, I'm not supposed to be there. According to many. Well, I don't want to say many. According to some. According to those guys, it's the literalists [00:28:34] Speaker B: who are like, this is the word on the page. They forget that. Like, hey, also that has been translated from a different, like, language that you're probably not reading. Like also you can't write down every single thing, every single person. If we think that Jesus was surrounded by 12 men and that's it and there was never anybody else around him, [00:28:53] Speaker A: like that is not. Yeah, that doesn't make like think about it logically. People. And so I don't know. And there. But there's again the having the open mindedness. But then those are the people who are not just literal but then just can't expand their. Where's your imagination? Not to say that it's all imaginative, but it's, it's read. But in between the lines. Yes, yes, there's more, there's more. There's always more to a story. Yes. [00:29:19] Speaker B: Oh, I love that when I learned to read the Bible in context that way because I kind of grew up very like it is very literal, very clear and what it says is what it says. And when I learned to read between the lines and try to like even force myself to picture who else could have been around? It completely changed everything for me. Like everything. Yeah, I love it. [00:29:40] Speaker A: See, that's even a different than, than to me. That feels like now you're learning a different variation of your religion in a way because you saw it one way and then now it's like, oh, but then, whoa, now a whole new world just opened up. [00:29:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:55] Speaker A: So that's, that's so cool. [00:29:57] Speaker B: And it's actually bigger and better because now it's not contained into like this one little box that we can hold onto and be like, oh, here's our little God and our little. [00:30:06] Speaker A: And it's just so, so prim and proper sometimes is what it feels like. But it's like it's messy. There's other, there are other things going on. What don't we know too? And I mean, I'm not a lawyer. I'm gonna try this again. It's like my, my milk chocolate thing because it makes sense in my head. So let me see how it comes out. So I'm not a lawyer, but you know, when you're, you're on the stand. I mean, I don't know. I've never, I don't know. So imagine say you, they're in court. I don't know. So you're, you're in a courtroom. Okay. I don't know. Yes, I, I stand by that statement. Imagine you're, you're on the stand. I, if you're trying to recall every, every single detail of something, I mean, sure, like maybe you do remember every single detail, but Then again, that's just like, I can't. Logically, I can't imagine that you are also sharing every single detail. And I think the reason I brought up court is because sometimes that people lie. People lie on the stand, and then something new information comes out. So it's also dependent on the person who's telling the story or sharing the information or sharing the story. You know, are they not to say that these guys aren't reliable, but just they're saying it from their perspective, what happened? And I think that's why a lot of people love collecting all the information from all the. The different scriptures and writings from that time to kind of put it all together. And that makes sense to me. Like, we don't. There isn't just one thing that's true. Like, and. And I'm sure that there. There are stories and accounts, maybe even documents out there that we still haven't come across or found, and then that'll be added to the story. And. And then who's to say that there are people from way back when maybe they didn't want to incorporate a certain detail of the story? Yes. So I don't know that logically. I just think that's a logical thing. That there are so many things that we don't know. [00:32:10] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. And that, to me, is so beautiful because we get to fill. Really. [00:32:15] Speaker A: You're the pastor. [00:32:16] Speaker B: I know, I know. See, I told you. Not. Not the average pastor. Because I think people get distracted of trying to figure out, no, we need to know what we don't know. And I'm like, that's not the point. It's actually not the point. Like, having the answers and filling in all the gaps and going, no, we need to know these things is not actually the point. The point is taking what we have and choosing, do we believe this enough as it is? And then, like, continuing to let our faith evolve as we learn and as we grow. But, like, getting so fixated on having knowledge and quote, unquote, knowing the right thing has actually led people, I think, so far off track from being in a relationship with Jesus and trying to just, like, live out a faith that is based off of the way we treat people and the way that we live, because it makes it very angry. I need to know these things. [00:33:11] Speaker A: No, you don't. I've started learning more. I like the word faith. I. I never really. I guess I kind of growing up, I attributed it to religion and. Because it felt so. And I just. Religion was just so rigid for me. I just never really, you know, I've tried assimilating to it, and I have gone through periods, didn't really last that long, sometimes those periods, but I tried to, you know, just to fit in or something and see if it were. And sometimes it made. Depending on where I was in life, it would make so much sense to me. But I always attributed faith into the word religion as well. And I never, I started kind of asking myself more and having, having conversations like these about just faith. And now I understand the difference. I know that there is a difference. And it's, it's so vast. Like, it's such a small word, but it's so vast and meaning and it's so beautiful and there's so many, there's so many ways to describe, but it really is just like, it's a, It's, I don't want to say it's just a feeling because it's more than that. It's like, so. It can be so impactful. So, yeah, I really like the word faith. And now I'm not, you know, I don't even hesitate to say, I for sure have faith. And again, ever evolving. I just, I, I, I don't question. It's more so explore. I'm exploring how that faith is. How that faith is what? That faith is what? Yeah. So. And I kind of, it's kind of like what you were just saying. For me, it makes it fun. I like not knowing, because then the world is just always. I have all these questions. I'm always learning, and, and I never want to think I know everything. I don't want to think, you know, I'm, I'm correct in something because I might be wrong. I might. I mean, I don't want to ever close myself off to having conversations where someone can teach me something. And just because I'm so rigid and the thoughts that I have or the beliefs or the faith that I have, I might miss something. [00:35:34] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah. You know, there's so much of that in Christianity that just looks prideful. I mean, you even mentioned, you know, people getting upset because the chosen incorporate so many women. [00:35:46] Speaker A: Right. Okay. [00:35:47] Speaker B: Well, as a female pastor in the South, I can relate to that, too, because there are people that are, like, in Christianity, quote, unquote, because of the Bible, like, you should. I should not be a pastor because I'm a female. And to me, Yasmin, it's that same exact thing you were just saying where I'm like. Because you are so focused in on deciding what God can and cannot do in my life. That you might actually miss out something that God has for you. That I am going to be the one to speak, but you're not going to hear it because you have decided that I can't speak for God and that he doesn't speak to me and that like he can't use me in that way. And so it's the same thing. Because why? [00:36:30] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, what does that say about that person? Like, sometimes I don't want it. I don't want to get to know that person. But then a part of me is so intrigued. But yeah, I probably get tired of the conversation in like two minutes. I'm like, I'm done. I can't. Because that. That already says you can kind of tell. Do you still get that a lot whenever you. [00:36:48] Speaker B: I do to an extent. Like not here, not in my home church. I get it from randoms on the Internet. It does still exist. I mean, there are still places that, you know, if they're looking for a speaker for a Sunday morning or for a whatever, I would not be considered because I'm a female pastor. Yeah. [00:37:09] Speaker A: And the outright will say that. [00:37:12] Speaker B: They will not outright say that. But if you look at who they have ever invited or included, you can just tell. Yeah. And sometimes like there are suggestions, like I'll be suggested to a place and they're like, yeah, no. And it's not because of. Maybe it's my style. Maybe I'm oversimplifying it, but I'm pretty sure at least some of the time. [00:37:32] Speaker A: Yeah. Do you find that more. That way of thinking? More so with the older generation, is it changing or. [00:37:43] Speaker B: I think it might. I don't know. You know, that's a good question, Yasmine. I think I would have said yes, probably the older generation. But there is also right now a very loud movement that is collecting younger people that is doubling down on every single thing. And yeah, I also think. I don't know, they. They. [00:38:08] Speaker A: It's a combo. [00:38:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:38:11] Speaker A: Yeah. What a fascinating world. [00:38:16] Speaker B: I love that. [00:38:16] Speaker A: I don't think I could do what you do. [00:38:19] Speaker B: Oh, gosh. Well, I also love that you picked up exactly what I was saying with my very deliberate and intentional words there. [00:38:32] Speaker A: Yeah. She knows it. Sometimes I. I wonder if you would if. If the next time. Because you'll get a no next time, it sounds like. Because you have been and there are still those people out there. I wonder if the next time. Not to say that I hope you do not. Of course I hope you don't. I just think it'd be because I like challenging people. I like putting people. Not necessarily putting them on the spot, but at least then you have. You open up the conversation. If you ask the question of just wondering first, wondering why or if you're comfortable enough to say it is because I'm a woman. [00:39:04] Speaker B: Yeah, that'd be. [00:39:06] Speaker A: That'd be cool. That'd be a cool conversation. [00:39:09] Speaker B: That'd be an interesting conversation. [00:39:11] Speaker A: Yeah. Just curious. [00:39:12] Speaker B: I'll tuck it in the back of [00:39:13] Speaker A: my mind if it happens. Let me know. [00:39:16] Speaker B: I will. [00:39:17] Speaker A: I'll call you. Yeah. [00:39:19] Speaker B: A question for you, actually. [00:39:21] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm wondering. Yes. Because I was thinking about going, but I don't know anymore. Yeah. Interesting. But I'm also not surprised. [00:39:35] Speaker B: Yeah. No, because the world. [00:39:38] Speaker A: Yeah. And that's in every. I mean, you know, there's just everyone. There's a pendulum of the different varieties of people within every religion it's in. I mean, I'm sure Judaism has that. I know Islam has that same. Same. [00:39:54] Speaker B: Well, it's a moral hierarchy of, like, who's in and who's out. It's not always females. You know, it can be for whatever criteria I think it is that, like, well, as long as I'm better than these people, I'm in there, out. Then it gives us this, like, sense of we're doing it. All right. Okay, I'm gonna break in real quick to let you know that there are spoilers ahead. So if you haven't watched season four of the Chosen yet, you probably want to skip ahead just three or four minutes or wait and save the rest of this episode for later. Well, back to rhema. I want to ask you some more rhema questions because you mentioned that she is not named in scripture, but she does definitely represent surely a lot of women that were there. So I'm curious, as an actor, what it was like developing a character who was introduced as this, like, very vital part, but there was no character study for you to, like, learn from. [00:40:56] Speaker A: I. Honestly, from my perspective, I feel like I got it easy compared to everybody else just because I've. I've never depicted a real human before and. Or, I mean, like, you know, someone who's actually been. That's not. That's not fictional. [00:41:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:41:20] Speaker A: Like, historical figure in any way. So these guys, they. Sure. At first I. I would think. Yeah, man, they totally have it easy. They have these things to research and so much information. They even have other. Other types of film and shows to watch to just to gather everything that they probably. Probably would need to know to. To prepare. And then I Thought about. Oh, man, how difficult that must be. The pressure I would think of having having to. Characters. People that so many of us know. [00:42:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:04] Speaker A: And so many of us already have an idea about in our head. That's the other thing. [00:42:10] Speaker B: Something to compare. [00:42:12] Speaker A: Yeah. And now they have the responsibility. Like, I would feel immense responsibility and pressure to. To, you know, get it right, or. I hope I'm not letting anybody down, or I hope I'm. I'm depicting this in the best way possible, especially if it's an actual historical figure, because then you don't want to let that person down too. You know, you want to. You want to be. I want. You want to be as. As. As. I don't know. I would. I would. You want to be serious about it. Like, I mean, unless you're doing, like a. Yeah. Know. Comedic. Anyway. So. Yeah. I actually think I had it pretty easy. [00:42:51] Speaker B: Okay. [00:42:51] Speaker A: And so I just. It was just kind of like another acting role where you have the script and then, of course, the writing. That makes it immensely. So much easier. Yeah. The writing is just fabulous. [00:43:05] Speaker B: So beautiful. [00:43:06] Speaker A: I just didn't have. So there was. It was fun to just kind of, like, create. [00:43:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:16] Speaker A: Given the information that I was getting just from. From everybody else. [00:43:21] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:43:23] Speaker A: So. Yeah. [00:43:24] Speaker B: Yeah. Well. And then we had the introduction of Rhema and Thomas and, like, their incredible love story, which I did not see that coming. I don't know again, because she's not in scripture. I'm just, like, watching this unfold like it's a soap opera. [00:43:38] Speaker A: Yeah. Which is so cute, because who's to say that you can have a crush, you know, like, they're humans. You have. Yeah. Yeah. Do you. I just think it's so beautiful. So innocent. It's like innocent, innocent love and so sweet. So that. Yeah. I'm happy that they incorporated it as well. And again, me coming in not knowing really anything about Thomas the Disciple. [00:44:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:03] Speaker A: But I love. And then I learned along the way. I love how they incorporated it for me. It makes sense. I don't. Nothing ever felt out of place. And, you know, we're always having those discussions on set. And even before the season starts, even during the writing process, the writers are always there for us. Dallas is always there for us. Tyler and Ryan. And, like, who's to say, again, like, what we were talking about, who's to say that that didn't happen? I can't imagine that not happening. And then I saw it, and then I. You know, I was able to live it in a way. And I'm like, oh, yeah, that makes. This makes complete sense. [00:44:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:46] Speaker A: Why haven't we seen it before? He's never thought about it. Because it's not. It's not written written down. [00:44:52] Speaker B: Exactly. Yep. [00:44:54] Speaker A: I'm glad you liked it. There needs to be some romance, you know. [00:44:57] Speaker B: Oh, I loved it. Well, and too, like you talked about earlier, of figuring out and understanding how people got to where they got to be. I thought that the entire, like, storyline of the two of them really helps us to understand Thomas later on of. [00:45:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:45:13] Speaker B: Why he is doubting things and why he gets maybe kind of cynical. Like, we saw it play out. [00:45:19] Speaker A: Yeah. And it makes complete sense. And I don't know how it is. I've. I've never really had that discussion with people, actually. So what you could probably teach me this. What would people say then is why Thomas doubts? [00:45:39] Speaker B: I think they just. He just gets a bad rap. Like, Thomas just gets a bad rap. It's like, well, he doubts Jesus. He was there. [00:45:47] Speaker A: But no one questioned. No one questioned why. No. [00:45:51] Speaker B: At least not how I was raised. I had never heard it. I mean, more recently, you know, I think people are learning to, like, read between the lines more now, or at least those are the circles that I'm in where people are wanting to, like, learn more. But, no, it was always just like, you don't want to be Thomas. If Jesus tells you something or someone tells you something about Jesus, you just believe it because it's in the Bible or because they said so. The pastor said so. So doubted. And we never. We never asked why. [00:46:22] Speaker A: So in Bible study, did. No, especially, you know, as a kid, because sometimes they ask the most brilliant questions. And did. Did it never come up where. It was just kind of like. But why? Like, why? Just, like, very out of curiosity. [00:46:38] Speaker B: But the adults didn't know how to answer. Like, I'm sure there were kids that were like, you know, that also had those same questions. But that was the problem. Yes, that was the problem. There were kids that had those same questions of like, but how and why? And reconcile. [00:46:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:46:52] Speaker B: And the adults did not know how to answer with uncertainty. And so it was just like. Because the Bible says so, or like, one day when we get to heaven, we'll know. We can ask God then. [00:47:05] Speaker A: Yeah. And then we'll figure it out. We just believe it because it says yes. Yeah. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. So that's why, again, not thinking that I would even want to know why. But then, because they incorporated that into the story. It's like, whoa. Yeah, totally, Totally. People Would get mad at that part of the. The story as well. They're like, that's not in the Bible. Like, well, then why does he doubt? Right? Well, you tell me. [00:47:32] Speaker B: There's a lot of stuff that's not in the Bible. It's not recorded every time they ate meals, but guess what? We can probably infer that they ate a lot of meals just because they were written down. [00:47:40] Speaker A: Yeah. So funny. [00:47:42] Speaker B: It's not recorded every time they went to the bathroom, like, if we really want to be there. But guess what? Jesus probably went to the bathroom, like, a lot. [00:47:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:47:52] Speaker B: They just. [00:47:52] Speaker A: I know you probably don't even want to think about it, but it happens. Yeah. That's so funny. My gosh, I'm happy you're on the same page. Oh, for sure. [00:48:00] Speaker B: For sure. [00:48:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:48:01] Speaker B: Well, I want to talk about season four, and I don't know how much, like, spoiler alert we need to give people, because on one hand, I don't want to spoil, but also, like, we're talking about season six, so part of me. So I'm like, okay, if you're not there yet, maybe fast forward for, like, a couple minutes. Yeah. Did you know in advance what her storyline was going to be in season two? [00:48:24] Speaker A: I found out. Dallas told me on set. He told. It was. It was. We were filming. It was me and Joey, who plays Thomas, and Hassan, who plays my dad, Kafni. And it was whenever we were going to Samaria, and we were like, in the fork in the road or the mountains, like, I don't know. And so we're just, like, looking at the map and just trying to figure out where to go. And we were filming that in Utah, and we were in between setups. So we're just sitting, chatting, and then Dallas was like, you want to know a secret? It's like, yeah, he told all of us. And he's like, you're gonna die. And then. And I forget exactly how he said it. I don't think it was. That was not verbatim. Okay. See, again, accounts. I forgot the account. And. But that's. And now. And if that ever goes back to dazzle, like, that's not what I said. Anyway, that's. That just happens. Yes. So. So then right after he said it, then. Then they called for. For us to go back. They're like, okay, we're ready. And then Dallas. Dallas leaves. And he just leaves us, like, all stunned. We're like, is it joking? Was he not? And then obviously we followed up. We're like, what do you mean? And so then that's when he explains the. The whole thing to us of why and doubting Thomas and. And we're like, how. How's it gonna happen? I don't know yet. But they were actually very sweet. I think in season, while they were writing season four. Unless they just told me this to be very nice, but I believe them. I will choose to believe them. They're like, man, Yaz, we were. We were trying to see if we could kill somebody else that way. Yeah. So. So that way, you know, you could just stay on because it's so fun working with them. And they tried different. I don't know who they. I never asked. [00:50:16] Speaker B: You're like. [00:50:17] Speaker A: Instead. And so they tried. I don't think they tried that hard. It's okay because it makes sense. It's a good story. It's a good storyline. So it's like that made the most sense. That's the most impactful for Thomas's story, especially for where he goes and where they're trying to take him. I think it's a brilliant. I mean, it's a brilliant move. I hate it, but I love it. It's like a love. [00:50:39] Speaker B: Hate relief. [00:50:40] Speaker A: I think if I were. If I were a viewer of the show and had not been part of the show, I'd be like, oh, heck yeah. Awesome. Such an awesome move. I mean, it's again, sad, but you know what I mean. Yes. So did I even say what. Oh, I did already say? Because I was like, I don't think we said the spoiler. [00:51:00] Speaker B: We did. We should. [00:51:03] Speaker A: I wasn't sure if I said, like, die, but yes. [00:51:05] Speaker B: Okay. I'll put a warning. I'll put a warning and we'll let people know in advance. [00:51:08] Speaker A: Yeah. Forward over. Well, because there's also. I have. I have the. A little new. This fun little series that I do on set. Okay. Okay. It's called. I'll take a stab at it. [00:51:22] Speaker B: Who came up with this name? [00:51:28] Speaker A: I think it was a combo of our guy. It's Ong and Jeremiah. I think it was Jeremiah. He is. They're both part of our marketing team. Okay. And we were thinking about doing something fun and, you know, just me being on set again just because it's always so fun. I honestly, I'm. I was thinking of just being part of marketing because I like marketing. [00:51:48] Speaker B: Okay. [00:51:49] Speaker A: And so I just met like that and they were like, let's do this show. And guess what the show is going to be called. Okay. I. Great. I love it. I love dark humor and. And only Because I think two episodes have already come out. But, yeah, some people didn't know that. They hadn't gotten to that point yet. They're like, why is it? And my. I think my intro is like, since I died. So it. Like, it is. I feel so bad. I'm like, y' all are what? [00:52:19] Speaker B: So my oldest daughter, Marley, is watching the Chosen, like, as part of their youth group. It's like their curriculum right now. And I keep having to check with her, and I'm like, where are you? What season are? Because she hasn't gotten there. And so, like, when I told her that I talked to you in the bathroom, she was so excited. And when you're coming on and she was so excited, she's like, I want to listen to it. And I'm like, you can, but you gotta, like, get a little further along in the show first. [00:52:44] Speaker A: Yes. Or fast forward. Fast forward. So she doesn't listen to this bit. Blessed. This little bit. But that was so funny, too. I loved meeting you in the bathroom. [00:52:53] Speaker B: So random. [00:52:54] Speaker A: That was a blast. I like that. I like meeting people. [00:52:57] Speaker B: This is the way it was meant to be. [00:52:59] Speaker A: Yeah. And I'm so happy you. You said hi, because I'm. You know, if you didn't, I wouldn't be here. [00:53:04] Speaker B: Right. I would never make it to set. [00:53:06] Speaker A: When. Now. [00:53:06] Speaker B: I will. [00:53:09] Speaker A: That will. That will be the. I hope. I don't know if that sometimes I was gonna say, I hope that can get you in. Just me saying that, but sometimes I can't get myself in. They're like, you're not on the list. I was like, okay, I'm not on the list. [00:53:23] Speaker B: We can both name drop. We'll do what we need to do. [00:53:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:53:26] Speaker B: I got myself into Frozen Con with. With Liz's help. So, yes, you can help get me onto set now. We'll make it. [00:53:31] Speaker A: Okay. [00:53:32] Speaker B: Great. [00:53:33] Speaker A: I can. Yeah. That'd be fun. [00:53:36] Speaker B: Well, season six is being promoted right now, and it is obviously the heaviest, hardest part of Jesus's life. So without giving anything away, even though if people have read the Bible, then they kind of know it's coming, is there, like, what kind of hope can you give people to hold on to that? Like, there is more to Season six than just sobbing. [00:54:01] Speaker A: Honestly, Jonathan said it best. And I'm not going to say it verbatim. Obviously, I don't remember, so I can't account those details. But he said it in a way. It was so beautiful. I believe it was in At Chosen Khan and what he tells people when they tell him Obviously, you know, difficult to watch. It'll be for sure. So hard. Yeah. And I thought his answer was beautiful. And he'll. He'll ask them, do you think Jesus would want you to abandon him during his time of need? [00:54:42] Speaker B: Oh, well. [00:54:43] Speaker A: Which I think is like, he's brilliant. Jonathan's brilliant. And the way. I mean, I. If he. I'm. Yeah. Because I even thought I was like, I don't know, if I could watch it. I would watch, like, I still haven't seen Passion of the Christ because it's. It would be so difficult for me to watch. But then when Jonathan said this, I was already planning on watching season six because it's my buddies. But when he said that, that just, like, hit me in such a. In such a way where I even question it myself. Like, yeah, of course. And we know it's coming. We know it's going to be hard. And then that made me feel sad. I'm like, yeah, what am I. I'm not a good friend. Where, like, I would just be, you know, like, you would want to. You want to be there for. For your friend. So, yeah, I thought. I thought that was beautifully said. And then it's the chosen. So. [00:55:35] Speaker B: So surely I'm like, surely the incredible writing will continue and there will be more hope than we think. And it will be. I'm sure. There are just glimmers of, like, goodness. [00:55:46] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. With. With how, again, Tyler and Ryan and Dallas are and their storytelling. I mean, I. Not because of who they are, but, again, if I did not know who they were and I saw this show. Writing is so good. Everyone is so great in it. The cinematography and the. All the visual ever. The music, it's all the editing, it's all. It's so magical. And I think they. What a great team, like, anything. And they're also brilliant individually, but, man, it's so magical when they come together and they. I'm excited just to see. Yeah. What they did with it. Yeah. [00:56:36] Speaker B: I'm gonna watch. It's gonna be so hard, but I can't wait. I'm like, november seems so far away. [00:56:41] Speaker A: I know. I know. Oh, my gosh. But it's gonna be here before you know it. [00:56:46] Speaker B: It will. [00:56:47] Speaker A: Yeah. All right. [00:56:48] Speaker B: Yes. Last question for you. This is the last question that I ask everybody on the show, and there's no right or wrong answer, so. Because the podcast is called Becoming Church, how can the people that are listening become the church of the people around them? [00:57:02] Speaker A: Become the church to people around them. [00:57:05] Speaker B: Whatever that means to you. Based off of like everything that we've talked about in our whole conversations. Like if you could inspire people that are listening to go like be the church, be Jesus. [00:57:16] Speaker A: Yeah, whatever. [00:57:17] Speaker B: What would you tell them? [00:57:18] Speaker A: I really feel we've talked about all of those things. Maintaining an open mind, being more curious with people, being curious about the world. Trying not to be angry as a person when someone maybe doesn't see things the way that you do. Being non judgmental and all of these things take, they take practice. I mean God bless people who it naturally it comes to and they're just like good souls. I'm sure something's wrong with them too at some point, you know, but like I'm sure like not all of us are perfect. [00:58:00] Speaker B: I'm not sure that person exists. [00:58:03] Speaker A: I know but some people, I'm like, oh my Lord, you were just so, what a good, good person. But we're not with them all the time. So yeah there's probably, they probably had their moments. But overall, yeah, I, I, you know, at least as, as long as I think people are trying to, trying every day. And you do have to try every single day. Some days easier, some days harder. Incorporating, Incorporating those things I just feel like makes sounds so cliche. It makes the world a better place. But I mean it makes you, I think a better person, a better friend, better. It just adds light to the world and I think the world needs light. All those, the opposite of all those other things just create so much darkness and I just feel, even just thinking about them, I just feel bogged down. So it can, it can help. Yeah, just alleviate, alleviate that darkness or that bogged down feeling. If we try to practice all those things. Yeah. [00:59:15] Speaker B: Help people. [00:59:16] Speaker A: What do you think? What do you say to people? [00:59:18] Speaker B: What would you never say anything to people. I always ask them this question. [00:59:22] Speaker A: What would your answer be? [00:59:24] Speaker B: I think, I mean similar, same, same vein. Yes, I actually it's so funny because I was going to tell you this after but I'll just tell you this now since you asked me. So I have a, My first book is coming out and there are so many things that you said or that we talked about in this episode that I was like I need to get your address and send you a copy when it's out because yes, please, I'll [00:59:45] Speaker A: just give you my address right now. [00:59:49] Speaker B: We just like bleep the whole thing out. But no, that, that to me is, is I think that we become the church by taking God out of the box, by tearing down all of the walls of religion. The Obligation, the shame, the control, the fear, all of the things that have been used to manipulate people into. And we help them to, like you said, choose faith and understand why they believe what they believe and help them to continue to evolve in what they believe and. And help them to understand that humility is actually a good thing for us, for the people around us, for the world, and that it can be so much bigger and better when we take our faith out of a box. [01:00:30] Speaker A: Amen. [01:00:31] Speaker B: Yeah, that's that. [01:00:33] Speaker A: Agreed? Agreed. Oh, my gosh. Congrats on your book, too. [01:00:37] Speaker B: Thank you so much. [01:00:38] Speaker A: I can't wait to read it. Thank you. Did you guess? Are you. You're currently writing it? [01:00:42] Speaker B: No, it's done. It's available for pre order right now. Yeah, I wrote it all last year. It's available right now. It's out. It's called the Other side of Certainty. [01:00:52] Speaker A: Love it. [01:00:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:00:54] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh, I can't wait to read it. Well, thanks. [01:00:57] Speaker B: I will send you a copy. Thank you so much for being here. You are a delight and a half. I just absolutely love chatting with you. [01:01:04] Speaker A: Thank you. This was so fun. Again, I'm so happy that I came across. I'm so happy I walked into that bathroom and then I'm so happy you were in that bathroom. And I'm so happy you said hi. Some people don't say hi nowadays, you know, so it's all. And. And I'm happy that you're also a delight and a half. No, it's very easy to talk to you, so I'm happy you have this pot. I'm. I'm happy about everything, apparently. I just keep saying I'm happy. I love it. [01:01:29] Speaker B: We'll be happy together. [01:01:32] Speaker A: But yes, your podcast, like, you're, again, very easy to talk to. So, yeah, I love, love it. Thank you. [01:01:44] Speaker B: I just adore Yasmin's humility and willingness to talk about what she doesn't know. And if you find yourself in a similar situation not knowing things that you think you're supposed to know, or not understanding things that everyone else seems to please, follow her lead and lean into it. Learning and growing are beautiful gifts that we get to experience as long as we're here on this earth. So there is no shame in admitting that there are things that you don't know or in realizing that there are things that you do know that maybe you want to unlearn and relearn again if you're in that situation. Second space, I would love to direct you to my book the other side of certainty. It is not an answer for what you are supposed to believe, and it isn't a replacement for the faith that you've had previously. But if you're ready to start letting your faith evolve again to discover more of who you can be because of how God created you uniquely and how your questions and doubts actually can lead to a deeper, more meaningful faith, I would love to be the friend that walks beside me you as you venture out. The link to order is waiting for you in the show notes. Until next time. Thanks so much for listening and keep becoming the church to the people around you.