Glen Henry: Father Yourself First

[00:00:10] Speaker A: Welcome to Becoming Church, the podcast where we discuss how the message and movement of Jesus is not just about becoming Christians, but about becoming the church. I'm your host, Kristin Mochler Young, and my guest today is Glenn Henry, who is also known by his hip hop name Belief. Glenn has lived a lot of really cool experiences. He. He was in a rap group called Dream Junkies. He's given a TEDx talk, and he inspires thousands of fathers through his organization, Belief in Fatherhood. He actually came on Becoming Church to talk about his upcoming book, Father Yourself first. But we took the conversation a lot deeper than that. I hope you enjoy it as much as we did. [00:00:53] Speaker A: Hey, Glenn. Welcome to the Becoming Church podcast. [00:00:55] Speaker B: Thank you so much for having me. Kristen, how are you doing? [00:00:57] Speaker A: I'm great. I'm so glad to have you. Look at your fancy studio. You're. You're a big deal on YouTube from what I understand. Is this right? [00:01:04] Speaker B: Yeah, well, yes, yes. [00:01:07] Speaker A: Yeah. Humble brag. [00:01:08] Speaker B: I'm trying to, I'm, you know, I had to accept the compliment because I'm trying to, like, honor myself, you know, because I have been working really hard at this, you know, at the same time not being a little too uppity. So, yeah, I would say that I'm somewhat of a big deal on YouTube, but I'm a bigger deer in this house and so that's. [00:01:26] Speaker A: So, yeah, that's awesome. Well, I will say that you're a big deal on YouTube and then you can just take it. [00:01:31] Speaker B: Okay, thank you. [00:01:33] Speaker A: Well, I would love to. I am actually new to your channel and your content and all of your things. And so I would like to also introduce you to our listeners. So we're going to start with just like a real quick, quick fire Q and A. [00:01:47] Speaker B: Yes. [00:01:47] Speaker A: Okay. So you are a stay at home dad. Let's say your kids are napping. You've got an extra hour and they're all asleep at the same time. What are you gonna do in that, like, unexpected hour of free time? [00:01:57] Speaker B: You know, I'm going to probably go work on some music, write a song, try to get inspired by something. If I have nothing else on my schedule and I'm not promoting a book and I'm not making the content, I. I'm gonna write. I wanna write some music for sure. [00:02:10] Speaker A: Okay, well, tell me a little bit more about that. Do you. Are you a songwriter? You also perform? [00:02:14] Speaker B: Yeah. So I was in, I was in a rap group called the Dream Junkies for years, and since then I took that same talent and that helped me start my YouTube channel, because my unfair advantage was I had these n. And I had a bunch of producers I worked with and all these good sounds. And so that's what helped me, like, catapult myself into the YouTube channel. So, you know, writing songs is a part of, like, my therapeutic process, but it also helps a lot of other people. So a lot of the men that I speak to. On every Saturday morning, I meet with men. Black. Black men who want to be fathers or want to be good fathers. And we just talk about life. And sometimes I play a record that I wrote or something that I'm working on, working through in therapy. It's pretty awesome. [00:02:53] Speaker A: Oh, that's awesome. Is the Dream Junkies music out there for anybody to listen to? [00:02:58] Speaker B: Yes. Yes. Yeah, you'll like it. I think a lot of people really want us to bring it back. It's just not the right season. [00:03:08] Speaker A: Okay, okay, listen, you gotta know. You gotta know. That's good. All right, Glenn, what is a recent dad fail that you're willing to admit on the mic? [00:03:16] Speaker B: Oh, man. So many. [00:03:20] Speaker B: The other night, my sons play inline hockey, and so they. [00:03:26] Speaker B: They. They. They think they're so good. You know what I mean? And they are. They're very talented, but they don't work on the fundamentals, and so they end up, like, failing and falling apart during the game. And so the other night, I stayed up to, like. [00:03:44] Speaker B: Way past the bedtime, like, maybe 11 o', clock, like, making them rewatch the game and being like, see, you're slow. See, you didn't pass. So, yeah, I was. I was being a little bit too much of a sports dad. We were making fun of each other, you know, but they. They really enjoyed that time. But I could have let my wife had to call me and be like, dude, are you still up talking to them about the thing? And I was like, yeah. [00:04:06] Speaker A: She's like, come to bed. [00:04:07] Speaker B: Yes, exactly. Yep. [00:04:10] Speaker A: Okay, well, see, and you learned. You learned. We learn and we grow. We fail. [00:04:14] Speaker B: We. [00:04:14] Speaker A: And then next time, we may do it a little bit better. [00:04:17] Speaker B: Mm. Yeah. [00:04:18] Speaker A: Who is a movie or TV dad that you relate to? [00:04:21] Speaker B: Oh, okay. And there's some that are inspiring. There's something I relate to. I think if you watch my content not so much in the, like, vulgarity part of everything, not. Not in any way, shape, or form, but my content feels like the Bernie Mac show. Okay, so the Bernie Mac show. Yellow screen, yellow writing on the screen. A lot of talking heads straight to the camera. Good morning. Hey. Hey, America. Like, he talking to, like, the audience as America as the audience. And I'm talking to the audience very similar. I think that is probably the most similar to me, but the most inspiring to me is King Richard. Man, when I saw the story of Serena and Venus Williams, it was so incredible. So, yeah, that's the one for sure. [00:05:07] Speaker A: Awesome. So I guess my next question was going to be who would play you in the movie version of Father Yourself First? But maybe Bernie Mac. [00:05:15] Speaker B: Actually it would probably be Lil Ro Howard. He. He kind of fits stature wise a little bit me better. And I think he could, I think he could pull it off too because it is a lot of comedy that happens on the show. So yeah, he would definitely be the one. [00:05:30] Speaker A: Awesome. Well, you have an organization called Belief in Fatherhood, which we are going to get into in just a second. But you also casually dropped that Belief is your hip hop name. And so I would like to know, how do I also get a hip hop name? [00:05:46] Speaker B: You know, so the belief I was, I had super low self esteem as a kid. I was, you know, raised in an abusive home. It just was really tough for me to just believe in myself. So belief was just one of those words that was a reminder to me for me to believe in myself. So it was just kind of like a little encouragement. So you think about something you may be insecure about that is kind of like, man, I really want to get better at this, you know? [00:06:12] Speaker B: So like say if you were like, oh man, I really want to be a marathon runner. You know what I'm saying? Like, your name could be Run Christie. Run Christie. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, yeah, like you could figure that, something like that out. But yeah, like, yeah, it's not, it's not, it's not that easy to do it. But I like to poke fun at myself and also encourage myself at the same time. [00:06:33] Speaker A: Was that connected to being in Dream Junkies? [00:06:37] Speaker B: No, Dreams came way after me. [00:06:41] Speaker A: Awesome. Well, tell us about belief in fatherhood. Tell us about what you do there. [00:06:44] Speaker B: Yeah. So basically we tell true stories of fatherhood, hoping to equip fathers to love and lead their families into eternity. I never wanted to be a dad until I saw proof of good fatherhood. Right. And so when you see proof, it makes you believe that you can do something. And this is our little logo right here. It's on my shirt. It's the Infinity hands, which is like a father's hand interconnected into a child's hand. And it just loops and loops and loops with the internal connection. Connection of the Infinite connection of our, with our children. Yeah. And so we tell really great stories about fatherhood. And then we help fathers, as they walk, start walking into fatherhood. We help them find themselves within it. It's, it's a lot of, it's weighty. Right. Sometimes we're, we're not needed at all, you know what I mean? For, you know, for the baby doesn't care about us at all. You know, like the first month, you know, we're just a warm body essentially and support for, for mom. And so. [00:07:45] Speaker B: Other times, you know, like middle school, like right now, like I'm having to do a lot more talking, communicating, chasing after pursuing. And that stuff is really important. And so dads miss that because dads don't communicate about, you know, we don't, we don't, we don't talk about what we need from fatherhood or what we're expected to get out of it or what we're supposed to. And so because dads usually don't talk, I have decided that I will be the kind of voice box of what my experience is. And figuring out if people also want to have that same experience by giving them an honest look at it. [00:08:19] Speaker A: Yeah, well, that's, that's beautiful. And it sounds like real life, you know, for it to go up and down and change and not always be the same is honest. That's life. That's parenthood, you know, in general. Well, you mentioned that you became a stay at home dad after Uriah was born and you did a TEDX talk actually about this. How did that happen? That you were like, hey, I think that TedX needs to hear about my decision to become a stay at home dad. [00:08:45] Speaker B: You know, it's so crazy, you know, when you really put your story out there and you keep just telling your story. Good things happen. [00:08:54] Speaker B: Just by creating the things I create, I've been putting it in an amazing position. So, you know, when I first started, this channel was spawned off a question my wife asked me, which was, you know, what's your five year plan? Because I'm not a planner and I'm a free spirit. I was like, I don't know, whatever God has for us. And we were in the bed, it's like 11 o'. Clock. And she was like, I trust you with my family and my future and you don't have five years planned out. Rolled over and went to sleep and I was stuck. And so once I figured out, like, oh, okay, I know my, I need to figure out a plan. I went to a buddy of Mine who asked tough questions. And I was like, bro, I don't have a plan. He was like, okay, well, what's your five year plan? I said, I don't know. He said, what's your tenure plan? I said, I don't know. So what's your 15 year plan? I said, oh, I want to be telling people how great it is to be a father. Because I never knew. He was like, okay, well, tell me more about that. I said, I want to be talking to people, you know, about like, telling their story. He was like, okay, well, where are these people at? I was like, well, 15 years right now. They're probably in middle school. He's okay, but where's their attention? I was like, oh, it's on the Internet. He was like, okay, well how often do you have to post on the Internet to reach these people in 15 years? And so that's when I came up with Belief of Fatherhood Now. He said, what do you want to be doing? I said, I want to be writing books and speaking and Father Yourself first is out now, right. November 4th. So that is like, this is one promise that I have kept to myself. And the TEDx opportunity was another. [00:10:20] Speaker B: I was hanging out at Playlist Live, which was a, like a VidCon type of conference in Florida, and there was a lady there who, you know, we were all just kind of paired up together because we were like the old people at the Young event. Okay. And she just happened to be a, like a, like working D.C. and she was like on a board or something like that. And like was, you know, she was on a board for TedX in D.C. and she was like, hey, you guys might want to, you know, we're. One of the people dropped out and they were like, oh, Belief was a great guy. He talks about fatherhood. And so I met her and then she was like, hey, this thing is happening. And at the time I'm like, I'm like, really broke. Like, yeah, I can't even afford. Like, I got the plane ticket there, but I couldn't, like, my car wouldn't swipe for like the 500 deposit for the hotel. Yeah. So I had. My wife had to send me money through PayPal. It was so embarrassing. And I get up there and they don't fly you out. You know, it's just like, you know, go up there and say what you do and try not to run, you know. And my sound check was so bad. That was the advice. He was like, just don't move so much, you'll be fine. And they weren't really expecting anything. But, you know, I prayed right before I went on, and I was like, lord, you know, every time I do something, I always do it with the fear attached. And then after it's over, I wished I could do it without the fear attached. So just please remove the fear and just allow me to find the people that you want me to find, you know, and encourage the people that you want me to talk to. And right after that, like. And it was so bad, like, there was a guy behind. They give you, like, little handlers, so when you're backstage, they're watching you. Have you done one before? [00:12:03] Speaker A: We hosted TedxCharlotte here, actually, at our church. [00:12:06] Speaker B: Okay. [00:12:06] Speaker A: I got to be the emcee for our event and all the whole thing. [00:12:09] Speaker B: But, yeah, yeah, they give you handlers so you don't run. Right. Because it's one of the biggest fears of people. So I get over there and they're like, yeah, you're. You're about to go on. And I go up there and it just was like, lord, remove me, please, and do your thing. And that's. It was amazing. It was an amazing opportunity. It was a good talk and got over a million views, so. Pretty pumped on that, for sure. [00:12:30] Speaker A: Yeah, I watched it. I watched it. I have to tell you, though, I do have a confession for you. [00:12:34] Speaker B: All right, Absolutely. [00:12:35] Speaker A: So this is the first thing. As I was, like, researching, you know, Brittany reached out to me about your book, and I was like, who is this guy? What's it. What's he about? What's happening? So I looked up your TEDx talk, and I was watching it, and I have to be honest with you, that there was a moment while as a dad, you were talking about, you know, these crying in the bathroom and, like, your one year old, like, banging on the door and having to do all this dad stuff. And in my brain, there was a voice that was like, well, he will get praised for this as a dad, even though moms everywhere do this all the time. And just because we're either expected to or we do it, but then we're, like, criticized for not doing it, right. Like, there's that double standard, right, where moms are expected to, like, perform and do all the things at this level. And sometimes the narrative is if a dad can do the bare minimum, it's like, oh, he's such a great dad. [00:13:23] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:13:24] Speaker A: So talk to me about that. What are you doing to try and help that, like, change that double standard? [00:13:30] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, this is not my. It's not my job to change this. [00:13:36] Speaker A: Sure. [00:13:36] Speaker B: The perspective of the world. [00:13:38] Speaker A: Right. [00:13:39] Speaker B: And I didn't always believe that. So this is a newfound thing for me. [00:13:45] Speaker B: I think that the reason why men get that type of praise is because they're not in that type of position normally. Right. It's not normal for them to be in that way. I was more being praised for under. Because my, my right before I said that, I said, what do stay at my home moms do all day? I'm gonna be bored. Like, I thought it was gonna be boring and not a challenge at all. So I was rec. I was recognizing the fact that people who have this job have to go through a crazy amount of emotional labor that I had never experienced before. So at the first moment I'm confronted in it, I break. Yeah. Right. And so the story isn't, oh, he's being praised for this. I mean, you could take it that way. But my thing is, oh, I'm being humbled. I don't know anything. I need to put myself in a position of most people I don't understand so that I can have share their perspective and be able to support them. [00:14:44] Speaker B: Quick caveat to that is when I did, like, work in the office and, you know, I started to venture out after I started making money from belief in fatherhood. My wife was a stay at home mom. She didn't even have to say she needed a break. I knew it because I could recognize it on her face. [00:15:05] Speaker B: That emotional tiredness that. [00:15:10] Speaker B: Where'S the end of the tunnel? I can't see a light. I'm dealing with so many different types of fluid from bodily fluid each day. Right. And it wasn't like, you know, people can take it as that if they want to, but the point is, like, I'm in a position to understand more about what these individuals go through. And so there still are a lot of men who would say, I'll never stay at home, I'll never be that. And my wife doesn't do anything all day. Like, there's still men who say that, but when you put yourself in that position, especially when you have young kids. [00:15:46] Speaker B: You'Re unrecognizable to yourself. [00:15:48] Speaker A: It's a whole time. [00:15:49] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So I'm not really interested in pushing back against that narrative because I can't, you know, I can't control that. You know, but also, there is a level, and this is not the main story here, there is a level of parental gatekeeping where some dads want to try to help, but they're not allowed to because of fear that they're going to just screw it up anyway, you know what I'm saying? And so there's some give and take, but there's much more that men need to know. [00:16:20] Speaker B: Working parents need to know what stay at home parents are enduring. For sure. [00:16:24] Speaker A: Yeah. And I did not, you know, that obviously wasn't the whole point of your TED Talk and what you're doing. But I just, I'm, as I was watching, I was like, I know that there, I know that this is a thing. So I think even truly by your lived example, all the things that you're doing, the way you're talking about it in humility, I mean, even if you're not effectively like working to change the narrative, I think you're doing it just in how you live differently and parent differently, you know? [00:16:50] Speaker B: Yeah. And it takes a longer to get that though, you know, because people want the solution to their problem. Right? [00:16:55] Speaker A: Sure. [00:16:57] Speaker B: You know, some dudes come up to me like, why don't you talk about child support? I'm like, well, I'm, I don't pay child support. You know what I'm saying? So, like, I don't, I don't talk about it, but I understand where there is a lane there for more people to talk about that one specific thing. And there's a lot of problems to solve. My thing is I want to be proof. I don't want to be the example. I don't want to be perfect. I just want to be proof. [00:17:18] Speaker A: That's good. That's good. What has been the hardest stereotype or assumption to kind of overcome as a stay at home dad? [00:17:27] Speaker B: Man, comments are mean. You know, black fathers aren't around. He'll leave in a moment. He'll leave. He's not gonna be. [00:17:34] Speaker A: They say that about you even as you're doing it. [00:17:36] Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Those, those, those stereotypes are very bothersome. But, eh, you know, it's like, man, I get to prove them wrong, you know, and my children get the benefit from it. And not only that, they get to live a more extravagant life. Not extravagant, but they have better opportunity just because we recreate the content about it. So, you know, for instance, my son, I let my son watch Mighty Ducks. This was probably, I want to say 2020. And he just cut off, we just cut off all his hair. And he was like watching, you know, Coach Bombay and like these kids. [00:18:21] Speaker B: And he goes in the backyard, he's like, man, I want to get a, I want to get a hockey stick. I'm like, man, I'm not buying you no hockey stick. If you want a hockey stick, you pay for it. Because he has no money, and he's like 7 or 8, and he buys a hockey stick from Amazon and comes and he's back there, quack, quack, quack. He's in the backyard tripping. And I'm kinda like, man, this dude is out of it, right? And I used to play, like, street hockey as a kid on rollerblades, so I know a little bit of hockey. My dad's a big Kings fan because he moved out of California as I was like, all right. You know, I'm back there playing around with him, and these kids are playing, and he learns how to skate. So he's like, I want to play hockey. Can I play hockey, like, in the league? And I was like, okay. So we took him to go to this hockey rink, and, you know, they have, like, a bucket of, like, leftover gear, and he's like, putting on the leftover gear, and he looks like. Remember that movie the Little Giants when they were, like, assembling all these, like. You know, the kid puts the cup on his head, like, you know what I mean? So crazy. He looks so crazy. But you watch him. I'm looking at the camera and I'm watching him, and I can see his eyes, and he's studying the game, watching how everybody's moving. Oh, that's weird. So then he starts loving the game, starts playing the game, starts scoring, starts getting really fast, starts doing all this stuff. And then last year, my agency was like, hey, I'm gonna meet with the lady from the NHL, the agent there. Do you want me to see if we can do a brand deal or something? I was like, absolutely. So. [00:19:51] Speaker B: Long story short, they brought the Stanley cup to our house. Like, yes, the Stanley Cup. The Stanley cup goes on a tour around the country, around the world. So whoever wins the Stanley cup gets, like, a week with it. And then after that, they take it on tour to go to people's houses, to go to certain places. And so we were one of the stops, the LA stops on the tour. And it came right in our living room. My dad was there, and I surprised the kids. It was a really fun video, but that's, like, some of the opportunities that telling my story get. So as much as I want to say, oh, man, these stereotypes are these things that really bother me. It's nothing compared to the joy I get to experience to my children. [00:20:32] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's so cool. And those are. Those are totally Those God moments. Right. Where you're like, I. This is a fun bonus that I didn't necessarily know to plan for. I didn't know to ask for, to pray about. Like, it just. God's like, hey, thank you for taking that next step of obedience and going where I direct you. And then, like, look at this fun little. These fun things that just happen. [00:20:53] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. [00:20:55] Speaker A: Well, you start a lot of your YouTube videos by saying, welcome, black, to really highlight the fact that you are a black man in a black family. And most of our listeners will. Will be curious about that, and they will understand we have a very diverse audience. [00:21:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:09] Speaker A: But I also know that right now, in this era, it seems like mentioning race can instantly make people uncomfortable or defensive. [00:21:18] Speaker B: Yes. [00:21:19] Speaker A: For people who don't understand that, they don't understand your need to, like, lean on your blackness or who might even say you're being divisive by just, like, bringing it up, what would you want them to know? [00:21:31] Speaker B: Man, I love. [00:21:33] Speaker B: When I walk into a place. [00:21:37] Speaker B: And. [00:21:39] Speaker B: Someone. Someone goes, man, how can I help you? Or, you know, I love that. And sometimes when we go in a place. [00:21:49] Speaker B: I feel the tension of, like. [00:21:54] Speaker B: Just because of what I look like. No one asked me what I believe. No one asked me nothing. You know what I'm saying? And so. [00:22:02] Speaker B: Being black is something that I can't hide, and I don't want to even think about hiding it because for me, it's something I'm very proud of. Yeah. You know, during. [00:22:16] Speaker B: You know, sometimes when we walk into places, there is a. A little bit of a stigma of, like, oh, man, they're not going to tip well or. Or they're not gonna buy anything or, you know what I'm saying? Like, they're just here to waste their time. Especially when we were young, it used to happen a lot. Now that I, you know, I got a little dad by people like, oh, he probably got some money up in him. You know what I mean? [00:22:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:34] Speaker B: But sometimes our money is welcome, our business is welcome, but not. Not a complexion. And in the world. [00:22:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:41] Speaker B: Yeah. And so in a world where, you know. [00:22:44] Speaker B: During, like, being. Being in the black community is also divisive. So black men and black women are also arguing. Black Democrats, Black Republicans are also arguing about, you know what I'm saying? Like, what is being black to you and why can't we fix this thing? And I don't know if you noticed, but during time of slavery, the homes were intentionally broke apart. So that's why we married in secret, because they found out that you were married, they would sell the husband and sell the wife or keep the wife and just mess, you know, mess up the family. Right. And so even if you go beyond that and you talk about, you know, Vietnam and, you know, black men going to war, that also was a breaking point in the home. And so for me, saying welcome, Black, it's just a really cool play on words because I'm an emcee and I love that it is, but also because I want black people to know they're welcome. Yeah. You know, this is a safe place. You're going to see things that remind you of how you grew up. You're going to hear the combs, you know, cracking through the hair. You're going to hear barber clippers. You're going to smell nag champa, which is a incense. It's going to feel like home. You're going to see an ashy knee, and you're going to see it. You're going to see it, you know, therapeutically rubbed in some lotion on it. You know, you're going to see some food that reminds you of your childhood. It's going to feel like home. [00:24:14] Speaker B: And that is something that I really love about who we are and something I would never want to hide. So I like to confront it right away because. [00:24:24] Speaker B: Race, that's not my problem if it makes you uncomfortable, you know what I mean? And that may be more of a reason for you to watch it because you don't know how important it is to say, hey, welcome, Black, you know. [00:24:37] Speaker B: So, yeah, I love this discussion because, one, I love that you're not shying away from anything, and I appreciate you pushing back interviews like this. So you're doing a great job. [00:24:47] Speaker A: Great. [00:24:48] Speaker B: And, yeah, like, let's. Let's be proud of who we are, you know, in your heritage and where you came from. I think that's super important. [00:24:56] Speaker A: Well, I always try to on this show. I mean, we. We lean into a lot of things, a lot of topics on this podcast. We don't really shy away from a lot. And I always try to remind the listener, like, hey, engage with. Get curious about your discomfort. Like, if you're listening and you hear something and all of a sudden you either start to get defensive or it makes you uncomfortable or whatever. Instead of shying away from it, like, lean in. What is it? What are you feeling? What are you thinking? See if you can figure out why, because it probably has a lot more to do with them, what they believe, what they think, how they were raised, what they were Taught than what they're actually hearing from you, from the guest. And so I think it really is a wrestling of somebody's own, like, cognitive dissonance more than. [00:25:43] Speaker A: Whatever it is that you're saying, you know? [00:25:45] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I have to work through that same thing. Well, why am I feeling. And this is like, this is what the book father yourself first is about, right. It's like, okay, am I being asked to be a father at this moment, or can I be a child? Can I throw a fit? Right? Like, what can I do here? And most of the time, the answer is no. You always ask to be a father, especially when you have the heart of a father. It just kind of. Everyone's expecting that from you. Everyone is expecting to be cared for you without really caring for you or knowing how. It's really hard. [00:26:20] Speaker B: But, yeah, like, I am often wrestling with my own thoughts and thinking, well, why am I offended by that? Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Why does that bother me? When they came in and they didn't do this, they didn't acknowledge my wife. Like, what is that? You know, is that my problem? Is that their problem? [00:26:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:36] Speaker B: You're not going to talk to them like it's their problem. They didn't know any better. Let's figure it out with you and then address it, you know, like, that's the conversations I'm having with myself, because that's the same conversation I would have with my children. Right? Why. Why are you upset about that? Is it true? You know, you know, especially the. The girl and the oldest man, they go at it so bad, and I'm having to re. Talk to them and say, well, why? What does that mean? You know, you know, Theo said, you know, you look. You know, you can't dress. Have you seen what he wears? Do you want to accept his. You know what I'm saying? [00:27:14] Speaker A: Are you gonna let his opinion matter that much? [00:27:17] Speaker B: Exactly. Consider the source, baby. You know, and I have to say that to myself, Consider the source. [00:27:21] Speaker A: Yeah, well, and sometimes it was so graceful and so gracious that you just said, you know, sometimes it's the. That they didn't know better. And so trying to believe the best about somebody is really beautiful. But also, Glenn, sometimes they do know better. And I'm sure that those are conversations you have to have with your kids, too. And that's unfortunate. [00:27:43] Speaker A: You know, and. And trying to. I will never understand that tension of, like, is someone treating me a certain. I mean, as a female, like, kind of, you know, female in a leadership Ministry position. [00:27:55] Speaker A: But I will never understand your experience of trying to have to discern, like, is someone treating us a certain way because they didn't know better or because they're just flat out being racist? And so can I tell you a cool story? Yeah, please. Yeah. I was gonna say. That's what I was gonna say is I can only learn from your experience. So. Yes, please tell me. [00:28:13] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. This is. This is a sad story. [00:28:15] Speaker A: Okay. [00:28:16] Speaker B: Okay. So George Floyd's murder is 2020. [00:28:19] Speaker A: Yes. [00:28:21] Speaker B: My wife and I like, geez, these people. This is getting rough. It's getting hard to exist around it. We got to tell our oldest two kids about what it's like to be in black in America. We got to burst a bubble. Yvette starts crying. Ah, man, this is so annoying. This is not fair. I don't want to do this. I'm like, we got to do something. Because if we happen to die and they go with their godparents who are white, I don't know if they're going to have this conversation with them. So we have to do this. [00:28:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:51] Speaker B: We sit our son down. We told him, hey, you know, just because someone sees you, that doesn't mean they see you for the good child you are. They don't know you. So sometimes they're gonna assume that you're not the greatest person because of your. Because of what you look like. And then he goes, well, why would that happen? You know what I'm saying? I'm like, well, it could be anybody, you know? And so I was like, also, you know. You know, police job is to do a great job and to do a good thing, but sometimes they're not. Every police isn't good, so you have to be very careful, or who you trust sucked. You watch the innocence lift off of him. It was like he had been. He had been exposed to something, and you watched it, and we all cried together. [00:29:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:29:38] Speaker B: Bubble of exactly being that. [00:29:40] Speaker A: Even innocence. Yeah. [00:29:42] Speaker B: Seven months later, our nanny, who's white, we live in Southern California. There's a lot of white people out here, you know, saying, I love white people too. So we went to my nanny, took them to all four kids to the park. Uzi is one and a half. Okay. Okay. So my youngest is one and a half. My oldest is eight. Okay. Or seven. Eight. Right. So they're walking to the park, and then this little kid, this little white kid, he goes, the black kids are here. They're bad. They're bad. The bad guys are here. We have to run from the black kids. So my nanny walks up to the mom, is like, what is that? What is going on? And she's like, oh, we were learning about Martin Luther King, and he overheard that black people were something. And he's only five. She's only. He's only five. Now Anaya's. Anaya's around four, right. Uzi's one and a half. Okay, so just. Just feel me. So she's like, I don't care how old he is. What. What is that? Like, there. There's no part of black history where you're supposed to say that part. You know what I'm saying? And she goes, what? [00:30:46] Speaker A: Did you teach him? [00:30:47] Speaker B: Yes. And so she goes, like, I'm not dealing with it. Like. And then my nanny breaks down and breaks down crying because I guess he has some racial stuff in her past. So she, like, not with her, but with, like, her family. So she brings our kids home, she starts crying. She calls my wife hysterical. I come home from work, and I'm like, what the heck's going on? We all sit and talk with the kids, and I go, I'm just having a discussion. I say, hey, what happened? You guys? Tell me what happened. Talking to the kids. And they were like, yeah, this kid just started screaming at us. And I was like. And this is the part where it's kind of like, oh, I'm glad I had that conversation. [00:31:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:31:26] Speaker B: Because that's what parents supposed to do was prepare you to get your feelings hurt so you won't have your heart broken. I'd rather hurt your feelings so I don't have to break your heart. So I go, yeah, so what do you believe? Do you believe that that kid was telling you, saying the truth? And I'm like, nah. You know, one kid is like, I want to go back and fight. And I'm like, no, no. Right. He's very passionate. [00:31:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:31:55] Speaker B: So I go, well, what would you fight about? You know? He's like, well, I just. I feel like, you know, it was, like, very, like, mean. And I was like, okay, now, do you think that all white people are mean or all. Did everyone say that? They were like, no, no, just this one kid. And I was like, well, how do you feel about white people since that happened? Because it was, like, an hour ago, and they were like, we love white people. Like, Uncle Pat's white, Lexi's white. Our nanny. Like, we're just talking and just being like, okay, cool. So sometimes it's just one person. You know what I mean? And we can't judge the whole Group by what this one person said. Now, this kid is five. It's not a big deal. But here's the part where I'm going to explain to you a little bit, like a secret about being black, okay? [00:32:43] Speaker B: Now, this is a very important learning opportunity I'm teaching. I had to tell my children some bad news and hurt their feelings. That information helped them process because they recalled the conversation about George Floyd. So they were able to like, oh, I get it. This is what happened when you. Like you told us was going to happen before. Exactly, son, that's exactly why I told you, because it's important for you to know. So I was like, you know, this is a very good learning experience for. [00:33:11] Speaker B: Other people. So I'm gonna make a video about what happened. I'm not gonna put anybody's name out there. So I'm sitting there and I'm making this video, and I'm telling people, like, hey, be the first person to talk to your child about race. Because if someone else tells them, they might believe them, you know? [00:33:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:28] Speaker B: My editor is working on the video. He goes to church. He says, I'll finish the video on Monday, or he finished the video on Friday, goes to church on Sunday. The lady that happened with at the park was a worship leader at his church. [00:33:43] Speaker B: Okay? So he calls me immediately. Hey, she's not like that. She's not a racist. I never said she was racist. I said she was dumb for saying that to her kid. You know what I'm saying? But I didn't say she was racist. And I never put her name out there. So then his wife calls my wife. They have a big thing. And then the lady wants to talk to us. [00:34:03] Speaker A: Oh, no. [00:34:03] Speaker B: Hey, I went to the George Floyd march. My dad took me to the Rodney Key March. I'm not a racist. I'm not a racist. I'm like, okay, that's fine. We believe you. But our children are now scarred from this experience. And we're trying to, you know. And so they were like. She's like, hey, please don't put the video out. I was like, I'm not. I'm not gonna put your name in it. She's like, if you put it, I'll see you. And that right there. Yes. How. But how? Because being called a racist is worse than racial behavior. [00:34:38] Speaker B: So much so. So now I'm muzzled while also trying to uplift my children and my community. And so I'm not trying to put myself as a victim, because I'm not. And I put out the video Anyway, because you got to know, I don't care. Sue me twice. I'm gonna make another story about it, you know what I'm saying? Because. [00:35:03] Speaker B: It was a point where I didn't know who my people were. I was having a hard time. And the pastor of the church is a friend of mine and he was trying to get me to go to his church. I can never get you to go. I can never go to your church. [00:35:17] Speaker B: That specific building if my children are going to be violated. And you know what I'm saying, in any way or told there's something that they're not. And it's a really easy correction moment. Hey, son, don't say that. Instead of saying, hey, you know. [00:35:35] Speaker B: Don'T. [00:35:35] Speaker A: Tell people this happened. [00:35:36] Speaker B: Don't. Don't tell people this happened. I'm not a racist. I don't want that story out there because people are in fear that, you know, people attack them. If I was to go, hey, this person said this, they live here. They go to this church. [00:35:49] Speaker B: Right? But I'm not that type of person. She didn't know that. And she wanted me really bad to know that she's not racist. And so that, like, little fine line of like, do this, but don't do this, but do this, but don't do this. I did everything right as far as I'm concerned. I made sure my kids knew the truth about the people that may have made them feel a certain way. But we have to love our children really hard in a world that will never love them, you know, no matter how successful they are, no matter what they do, no matter what church they go to, how much they love the Lord. At the end of the day, there's still people. They're going to hate them for their complexion and vice versa. I have to make sure I don't allow that whole system that's pushing back against them to be the fuel that says, hey, man, another image bearer of Christ. Can't truly be a believer because of how they treated me this one time. You know, it's very sensitive. [00:36:43] Speaker A: Oh, gosh. Well, thank you for sharing that story. [00:36:47] Speaker A: Like I said, we can only. I can never fully understand your. Your experience, but the more that we talk about this, my hope is that the more people that hear stories like yours, because I'm sure it's only one story of so many. [00:37:01] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:37:02] Speaker A: That our responsibility now as white people, whoever, you know, majority culture, listening, is to not go. Well, that's not me, because that's what I think is happening. I think with racism I think with Christian national rationalism, I think with a lot of things, everybody wants to look at the extreme level and go, well. [00:37:18] Speaker B: That I'm not that. [00:37:20] Speaker A: Like, I'm not a. Like, you know, I'm not a racist. And we. We miss so much sin in our own lives. We miss so much. [00:37:30] Speaker A: Distraction, even of, like, the enemy when we overlook the other small little things that we do and that we believe and that we allow to guide our actions as long as it's not as bad as the extreme. And that is so damaging and so divisive and so of the enemy for people to not be able to have humility of going, like, okay, but what can I learn from this? How can I do better here? [00:37:55] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. The big push right now is black, is don't idolize your race. Don't be so black that you're anti Jesus. Right. And I'm like, how could that. How does that thing. Right, right. But. [00:38:10] Speaker B: You know, I have to say that I'm. I have to know that I'm black because I get treated differently. Yeah. Right. Not just by the world, by. By nature. Like, things see me different. [00:38:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:23] Speaker B: If, you know, I used to. [00:38:27] Speaker B: Before I could afford a camera, I used to use broken iPhones. When I finally got my first camera, autofocus wouldn't even pick me up because it's meant for a certain complexion. [00:38:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:38] Speaker B: Here's another thing. [00:38:41] Speaker B: I wouldn't tell my. My white friend. My. Me and my bald white friend to go sit in the sun for 12 hours. [00:38:50] Speaker B: And then tell him he's crazy for putting on sunblock. Yeah. Right. You got to do what you got to do, because I've never been in your skin like you. You have to do what you got to do, you know? And so I think that. [00:39:06] Speaker B: I think that it's hard because. [00:39:10] Speaker B: We really think that we're not like that, but we truly don't know until you're in that situation. You don't know you're homophobic until something happens to you and you're kind of like, whoa, wait a minute. [00:39:22] Speaker B: You say something homophobic. [00:39:24] Speaker A: Right. [00:39:25] Speaker B: You know what I'm saying? [00:39:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:26] Speaker B: So. [00:39:29] Speaker B: Or you see something that makes you feel weird, and you're like, wait a minute, what is that? You know, and all of a sudden this starts coming out of you. So let. Let's just. I don't know the solution, but I know that I improve for part of the solution, and so that's. That's all I'm trying to do is be obedient to that. [00:39:43] Speaker A: Yeah, Well, I appreciate, thank you for letting me take you on kind of that I love it side story there. [00:39:54] Speaker A: I know, I know even talking about racism can make you feel uneasy, no matter your background or what you look like. But like Glenn mentioned, the best thing is not to pretend it isn't happening, but to lean in and join the conversation. In the show notes of this episode, I've linked up some resources like Brownicity Be the Bridge and we choose. Welcome. I'm also going to link up some books and other podcast episodes as a kind of recommended reading list. If you're just beginning to learn about race racism or you're starting to do the self awareness work to check your own biases and beliefs, please know that you can always reach out to me through Instagram hristenmochleryoung or through BecomingChurch TV, because while I'm not an expert, I've met a lot of people who are through my own education and I'd love nothing more than to connect you with their voices. All right, now let's get to Glenn's book, Father Yourself First. [00:40:51] Speaker A: I do want to talk about your book, though. Let's talk about Father Yourself first and explain to our listeners, what does that mean? Where'd the title come from? [00:40:58] Speaker B: Man, I, I, I was wrecked by fatherhood. God was whispering me so much during, during the process, you know, so many different things that was happening. I was like, oh my gosh, like, I would never be able to apply what I've learned from my father or from men in my life. This, without this experience being a father. And so fatherhood gives you the opportunity to apply all the things you know, Right. [00:41:25] Speaker B: And what happened was I realized I am a really good dad. Man, I'm putting diapers on my head and wasting a whole pack of wipes on just a game. You know, I am reading, I'm teaching, I'm, you know, I'm doing all this stuff. Especially when the kids were young, it was so easy. And even now, like, it's pretty fun. And I don't back down from the challenge at all. I love it. But when it, but coming from a broken home where, you know, my dad lived in California, I live in Maryland, Baltimore, I realized that I still have a childish way about me. I still want to throw a fit when I can. [00:42:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:42:06] Speaker B: And I also recognize that. [00:42:11] Speaker B: Like. [00:42:13] Speaker B: Sometimes, like, you stop parenting your children and you become their child because you never worked on yourself. You never learned how to apologize fully. So you expect them to accept all the things you do. You gaslight them into doing things you want them to do because you don't know how to ask for permission or you're controlling and you can't apologize for nothing. You're terrible at it. And that happens when the kid turns into an adult and you can't control them anymore. So you start to manipulate them and then they put a wall up and you're wondering why they don't want to be around you. And so the same type of love and care you put into your children, or you would put into your children if you had them, that you can guide yourself that same way. Right. It's taking those thoughts captive. [00:43:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:43:04] Speaker B: It's, you know, doing what you said you were going to do. Keeping your word, not only to your children, but to yourself. I wrote this book because I have a very negative voice in my head. My mother was extremely abusive. She just, she didn't know any better. She was young, had me at 16. That's not an excuse. I'm just letting you know that I do recognize that part about her and I'm not expecting her to be perfect. But. [00:43:34] Speaker B: That 16 year old's voice, that's been my inner voice. So I'm often going through it in my own head and I'm refusing to tell the truth about what's really happening. I struggled with suicide for a long time. I started my first prayer to God, real prayer to God was that he would take my life because I didn't understand why my mom had started hitting me and taking all her anger out on me, you know? [00:44:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:00] Speaker B: And. [00:44:02] Speaker B: Those type of thoughts, they don't go away even after you get saved. Those thoughts still creep in your mind and they don't belong to you. So it's important for you to have a father to tell you the truth about yourself. [00:44:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:17] Speaker B: And because I know I'm a good father, I can also be a good me and I can encourage myself in those times. And so a lot of these are just, you know, principles that I've learned while becoming a father. But most of it is to apply it to yourself. Right. And it's been really beautiful. It's been really beautiful. So, yeah, this book is really important. [00:44:40] Speaker A: You mentioned, you know, your mom not knowing any better. And I think there are a lot of parents, a lot of people who think that they're going to parent a certain way or be incredible parents until they become a parent. And then you're like, wait a minute. [00:44:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:54] Speaker A: Why is this not working the way I wanted it to? Is there something that you specifically that you were determined to do differently either before you had the kids or that now that the kids have kind of showed you, like, oh, you know, we can't do consequences this way or something else that you're like, this. This. I'm one thing, I'm gonna do different. [00:45:14] Speaker B: Yeah. Spanking, you know? Yeah. I thought I was gonna be a spanker for sure, you know? And I was in the beginning, like, I was like, all right, man, you gotta get a pop. You didn't listen. You didn't do what I told you to do. And my wife is such a good. She always asks the best questions in the worst times. It makes me feel like crap. [00:45:35] Speaker A: Right. [00:45:37] Speaker B: But she's such a good partner, man. This woman is amazing. [00:45:42] Speaker B: She goes, I'm about to know my son is doing something. And I'm like, you know, I got to give you a spanking, bro. That sucks. Go upstairs. I'll be up there in a moment. [00:45:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:45:51] Speaker B: My wife is like, babe, I don't think that's working. What do you mean? She's like, well, you're teaching him to fear you. He doesn't know what you're talking about. And she was like, he hasn't really been given the tools to, like, do anything. Like, you're just teaching him how to be fearful. And I was scared of my mom, so I knew. And my dad. Yeah. But I didn't want to, Like, I didn't want that to be my children's story. Yeah. And, you know, Theo's young. He's four years old. [00:46:18] Speaker B: And I'm like, okay, so why do I feel like I need to spank this child? Because he didn't listen. Yeah. Why didn't he listen? [00:46:30] Speaker B: Because he. He. He does what he wants to do. Why does he do what he want to do? You're not teaching him how to control himself. You're not teaching him self control. He doesn't know. He doesn't know what to do, so he does what he wants. Oh, so he's not trained. How long does it take to train a child? Until. Until you don't need to train him anymore. [00:46:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:46:50] Speaker B: The reason why we spank, and I'm not saying all of us, but this was my reason, is because I didn't have time. I didn't have patience to train. [00:46:59] Speaker A: That is so good. [00:47:01] Speaker B: So instead of spanking him, I sat down with a whiteboard and I drew a bunch of smiley faces and sad faces, and I said, hey, when you do this, this is how it changes the home. This is what happens when you do this. Now, when I'm gone. I need you to do this. That's a lot of pressure to put on a four year old. But I'm a young parent. I don't know. I'm stupid. Done. So before you have it, before you have a child, you're a genius. You think everything, all them little ideas are going to work. You're confronted with the reality that for the first six months, they kind of catch you off guard because they don't do anything but just bodily fluids. And you're like, oh, this is amazing. And then they start walking and you're kind of like, dude, sit down. You're about to, you know, fall over everything, you know, and then it becomes like they know how to speak, they learn how to. You know what I'm saying? And then they have a mind of their own and start talking to you crazy. And you get. Then the emotions come out and you start acting like a child. So, yeah, my wife asked me that one question and I had to go within myself, ask myself these questions and parent myself out of spanking my children. [00:48:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:48:05] Speaker B: Because I realized I wasn't being effective and I wasn't being patient. I was a real issue. [00:48:09] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, we, we did not spank my oldest just because she fell in line. My youngest, I think she got spanked twice. I didn't feel great about it the first time, but we had like, run out of option. We were like, we don't know what else to do. Didn't feel like it didn't feel right. But, you know, again, new parents. How many time? Two. Two daughters. [00:48:30] Speaker B: Okay. [00:48:31] Speaker A: Yeah. So the young, so the. Our youngest was like, I don't know, two, three at the time. After the second time, I was like, peter, my husband, I was like, I'm pretty sure these are fake tears. And this is not changing her behavior. So, like, we're never doing this again. We are never, ever doing this again. [00:48:48] Speaker B: Yeah, that's good. And this good for you. [00:48:53] Speaker B: Because you learned a lesson, you know, that there might be a different approach. And I'm gonna tell you something. That second child is a doozy. Yes. [00:49:02] Speaker A: What they are. [00:49:03] Speaker B: I don't know what happens during conception or during those nine months or 10 months the baby's in there or what happens, but they snort a little crack and they go crazy. The second child, I don't know what happens. It's just like they break all the rules. And, you know, my theory is that the first child is taught how to be an older sibling, so they're taught to be gentle. Well, the second child Is like, oh, well, everyone's gonna be gentle with me. I could be rough and reckless, and they just learn. They teach everyone else where the boundaries are. Right. And the third child is like, you better not. Don't. Don't you do it. And they're like, man, I wasn't even thinking about doing anything. Yeah, you know, so, yeah, that's fun. I love. I love when I hear the stories of second children. It's just so, so interesting because it's such a curveball. They're so different from the first one. Yep. [00:49:55] Speaker A: She is her. She is her own little kind of special, that one. [00:49:59] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:50:01] Speaker A: Well, Glenn, if there was one thing that you wanted the men specifically listening to know whether their parents are not right now, what would it be? [00:50:10] Speaker B: You know, you don't have to be what you had, right? That's good. [00:50:17] Speaker B: You could be more than that. [00:50:20] Speaker B: And that's. Even if you had a great parent, maybe the standard is too high. [00:50:27] Speaker B: I want men to have a space for humanity because we are sometimes the only stable thing in a person's life. And that sturdiness didn't allow enough bend for us to sway. [00:50:42] Speaker B: And develop over time. We're just called to be consistent. And I think that men need to breathe, and I think we need a. A present father to help us, help guide us. And I think a lot of self motivation is important for men. And so developing the language to learn how to love yourself. [00:51:04] Speaker B: Like the father. You wanted to give you that hug, man. I have to ask my family to give me a group hug because no one gives me a good enough hug. I'm like, nah, it's group hug time. I need a hug. And don't breathe. [00:51:15] Speaker A: I need a big one. [00:51:16] Speaker B: Don't breathe on me. Just hug me. You know. [00:51:22] Speaker B: I want. I want. I want to give men permission to be human. And that means they need to be cared for. And for me, that means they need. That means they need to be father. And I was sitting here. My dad has been around a lot more, and we've been really connecting. It's been really cool having him around. But my dad, very surface. [00:51:42] Speaker B: And one thing that's been happening is he's been confiding me about a lot of things, and it's almost like I'm fathering him, you know? And at one point, Chris and I got really jealous because I was like, oh, I am for you what you never were for me. And not that my dad didn't do things that I needed. He. You know, when I was gonna off myself at 19. He gave me a place to stay. I moved out here to California. I started over. But to have a place to fall apart, no, I've never really had that. And so I've had to create that in my wife, in this little family we have in my. In my own family, where I can break down, but my dad used to do that in front of me. And I can hold space for him, but also be a little jealous. That's fair. And so. Yeah. [00:52:32] Speaker A: Well, in your TED and your TEDx talk, you ended with the line, the father makes himself present and then the children run to him. Do you see that analogy playing out with, like, God the father? [00:52:42] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:52:43] Speaker A: And us as his children. Tell me about that real quick. [00:52:45] Speaker B: When I would get home from a tour I'll be on for, you know, five weeks or whatever, all I got to do is open the door and boom. [00:52:56] Speaker B: There is a. There is a point where the children stop running after you. My son is 12 now. He won't hug me in public when I'm dropping him off for school. Um. [00:53:09] Speaker B: And I used to force him to do it, but I'm like, that's kind of embarrassing. It's not a lot of kids at this school anyway, so I don't want to. He only got, like, six friends. I don't want to make them all six. Make him look like a chump. [00:53:18] Speaker A: Right. [00:53:20] Speaker B: So. [00:53:23] Speaker B: The thing is, I thought, like, yeah, the father makes himself present. [00:53:30] Speaker B: And we pursue him. [00:53:34] Speaker B: But that is how it's how it is to be with God the father. And I think that's a little lesson that we have when our children are young. Hey, you're going to need to still pursue your father during these times because sometimes you're going to have to chase after your. Your children. You're going to have to pursue them like the prodigal son. [00:53:51] Speaker A: Right. [00:53:52] Speaker B: You know what I mean? The son just made himself present and the dad ran full speed. [00:53:59] Speaker B: You. Sometimes you're going to be the one being chased, and sometimes you're going to be the chaser. And I think we get too comfortable as men or as parents to where we think, dang. [00:54:14] Speaker B: My children aren't pursuing me anymore. They don't respect me. You know, we almost take. We almost get offended that they're not the same kids anymore, you know. [00:54:24] Speaker B: And that's a problem. We need to learn how to pursue our children. So one thing I would say is, if you can, even though it's annoying, make moments for, like, game nights. Yeah. Have fun with your children. Show them that. [00:54:40] Speaker B: Like, there's joy in the family. That way, when they're 30 and they have a little family of their own, they will stop by just to be in your presence, just for a game night or, you know, mom's home cooking or dad's home cooking or whatever it is. So, like, we're investing in our future right now. Yeah. Not just our children, but our relationship with them. [00:55:01] Speaker A: And we get to. I mean, we'll know our kids more as adults than we will knowing them as. As children. Like, God willing, we'll be. Yeah, but that's great because you are. You're modeling the love of God the Father. And so then when they are out there with their own families one day or moments of that are hard or dark, they will be able to actually understand and connect that of like, oh, when I hear about the love of God the Father, it makes sense and it resonates. Last question for you, Glenn, because the podcast is called Becoming Church. How can people listening become the church to the people around them? [00:55:36] Speaker B: Ooh. [00:55:38] Speaker B: Something I've been flirting with and my wife and I've been flirting with for a long time. Is starting a home church. [00:55:44] Speaker B: Being. [00:55:47] Speaker B: Nothing fancy, just one scripture a week. Everybody reads it. Everyone applies what they've read throughout the week. You worship together, you break bread, and even the children are responsible for going out and living out the scripture throughout the week. And then the next week, you talk about it and you pick up another scripture. [00:56:08] Speaker B: I think we have a. [00:56:11] Speaker B: We have an interesting corporate church. [00:56:16] Speaker B: Philosophy to where the bigger the better, the more the better. But it's something about just. [00:56:28] Speaker B: Operating in a small community. [00:56:33] Speaker B: And encouraging people to love God and pouring your money into people in the community who need it and blessing them. Yeah, that is valuable. Yeah. And some of you guys are right now trying to figure out where. What church, what kind of church to go to. I don't really like the children's ministry. I don't like that. Be your own church. [00:56:52] Speaker B: Be your own church with your own little community, and that. That, that suffices. And I, you know, I don't think God's gonna have no problems about that, you know? [00:57:02] Speaker B: You know, and it's not calling you to be a pastor. [00:57:05] Speaker A: Right, Right. [00:57:06] Speaker B: But it's calling you to live the scriptures. Right. So, yeah, yeah. [00:57:11] Speaker A: Everybody can facilitate community and talk about Jesus and come together united in that. [00:57:16] Speaker B: So, yes, absolutely. [00:57:17] Speaker A: Well, thank you so much for being here. I'm going to link up the book and your YouTube channel and all the things so everybody can follow you. This has been such a delight. [00:57:25] Speaker B: No, for real. This is one of my favorite interviews I've done, and I've been really doing a lot of interviews, so thank you so much. [00:57:30] Speaker A: Christopher oh, I'm so glad. [00:57:37] Speaker A: I pray that you experience the love of God the Father, even if you find yourself existing in a world that calls you unloved. I also pray that you and I would embody that inclusive love ourselves so that we can give it to the people who need it. I'm always so proud of you for being here and hanging in on these tougher conversations, and I would love it if you would share this with a father, a parent, or someone else that, you know. Let's keep adding more voices to the ones who really are going out to become the church that the world needs. Until next time. Thanks so much for being here and keep becoming the church to the people around you.