Tara Beth Leach: New Years Revolutions

[00:00:10] Speaker A: Welcome to Becoming Church, the podcast where we discuss how the message and movement of Jesus is not just about becoming Christians, but about becoming the church. I'm your host, Kristin Mockler Young, and my guest today is Pastor Tarabeth Leach from Good Shepherd Church in Illinois. Tarabeth is going to help us end the year well 8 and get ready for 2026 as we all begin thinking about the habits that make us the people that we are and the people that we want to become. After you listen, make sure you hop over to Instagram so you can let me know if Tara Beth looks more like me or Mandy. And while you're there, vote on the post to let me know which episode impacted you the most this year. Here's my conversation with Tarabet. All right, Tara Beth, welcome to Becoming Church. [00:00:58] Speaker B: Thanks, Kristen. So excited to be here. [00:01:00] Speaker A: I'm so happy to have you. It's funny. Cause I was. I'm looking at our faces side by side. I'm like, we could be sisters. [00:01:06] Speaker B: A hundred percent. A hundred percent, yes. [00:01:08] Speaker A: Okay. But I do need to know this, and there's no way that I'm the first person to tell you this. Every time I see your face, which is often because I've been working on, like, promos and stuff, I see Mandy Moore. [00:01:20] Speaker B: I knew you were gonna say this all the time. I hear it all the time. [00:01:21] Speaker A: I see that all the time. [00:01:23] Speaker B: I hear all the time. And I mean, it's a compliment because she's. She's gorgeous, so thank you. [00:01:28] Speaker A: But do you see it, like, when you look in the mirror? Are you like, yeah, I can get it or not really, because it's your own. [00:01:32] Speaker B: When I sometimes, like, watch, like, especially. And this is us. When I would watch her there, like, I guess, like, we do have similar expressions and. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:01:42] Speaker A: So funny. Well, now we just need to get me, you, and Mandy in the same place. [00:01:46] Speaker B: Exactly. Yeah. [00:01:49] Speaker A: Fool everybody. [00:01:50] Speaker B: Yeah. Yep. Yeah. What's even weirder about that is my brother went on a date with her, like, way back in the day. You're cute. He was, yes. Like, one date. But he did go on a date with her. They were. While she was filming a movie, and he was filming something. He was. He was an actor and a model, and. But it was just one date. But how weird. And my maiden name is Moore. Stop it. I know. [00:02:10] Speaker A: Well, I'm so glad you're here. We have followed each other on social media for a long time, and I'm really excited that you reached out. I've got your book right here. The great morning revolution, which we'll talk about in just a second. But I do want to do a quick little Q and A with you for our listeners. [00:02:27] Speaker B: Let's do it. [00:02:27] Speaker A: So I want to know, before you wrote this book, which is all about, like, the morning, were you a don't talk to me until I've had coffee or, like, a singing with the birds type person in the morning? [00:02:38] Speaker B: Don't talk to me until I've had coffee. And I still, like, I'm kind of there. I am super, super spoiled. My husband brings me coffee in the morning, and I usually need a couple s before I can really, like, come alive to the world. [00:02:51] Speaker A: Oh, that's sweet. Yes. I also am a coffee before, like, I come down. It depends on who gets up first. It used to always be me. Now it's me or my husband. But he kind of knows. Like, he says good morning, and I just silently, like, do a. Throw up my hand. Like, just give me a minute. [00:03:07] Speaker B: Yep. And my husband is a wake up. Singing, dancing, so much energy. [00:03:11] Speaker A: Okay. [00:03:12] Speaker B: Like, I just. I, like, I just stare at him like an owl in the morning. I'm just like, how. Where is this energy coming from? Now? [00:03:19] Speaker A: I'm picturing Joey from Friends. Do you remember that episode where he would, like, sing out the window? [00:03:24] Speaker B: It's exactly like that. It's exactly like that. Yeah. I love it. [00:03:28] Speaker A: All right, Tara Beth, if you could have someone from the Bible as your, like, accountability partner while you're going through the great morning revolution and drinking your coffee, who would it be? [00:03:38] Speaker B: I would have to say Junia. Just, you know, an apostle to the apostles. And I think if I could meet anyone besides Jesus, which I suppose we've met Jesus, but if I could meet anyone would be Junia. I mean, the apostle to the apostles. I mean, my goodness, talk about, you know, breaking that glass ceiling. [00:03:58] Speaker A: Yeah, well, and I would love to know her thoughts, too. I'm like, hey, you were written in as Junio. As a male for so long. [00:04:04] Speaker B: So long. How'd that make you feel? Right. [00:04:06] Speaker A: How are you screaming in your head? I'm sure when that happened. [00:04:09] Speaker B: Right. [00:04:10] Speaker A: All right. What's a morning habit that you broke? Maybe that you're never going back to. [00:04:16] Speaker B: Reaching for my cell phone first thing in the morning. Yes. Now, it's not that it doesn't happen now and then, but I would say for the most part, it's a habit that's been broken. [00:04:27] Speaker A: Okay, that's good. Well, then that's in and of itself a reason for me to go through this study. Because that is a habit that I need to break. For sure. [00:04:35] Speaker B: It's a hard one. It's a hard one. And I think it's. And impacts us so much. I don't know that we are always aware how it impacts us. [00:04:44] Speaker A: Well, I justify it because one of the hats that I We media. And so I'm like, I have to get up and I have to post the thing and I have to make sure it went. [00:04:52] Speaker B: And then. [00:04:52] Speaker A: But then once I'm there, I'm there. You know what I mean? [00:04:54] Speaker B: Like, so. Exactly. Exactly. Yep. [00:04:58] Speaker A: What has changed within you, Terabeth, in your transformation of becoming more of a morning person? [00:05:05] Speaker B: Yeah. So the biggest thing is God has formed in me a greater posture of trust and surrender. Because there's something about going to God in the morning in prayer and offering up, yes, my gratitude, my praise, my thanksgiving, but also my requests. You know, there's. I lead a church, I have children, I'm a caretaker for my mother. And there's often a lot that's weighing on me. And sometimes a mantle feels heavy. Yeah. And to be able to end every single morning saying, okay, but not my will. Your will be done. I surrender all of this to youo is just. It's like God is like lifting that mantle every single morning and reminding me that it's not mine alone to carry that it's not. Not even my. It's. It's His. [00:05:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:52] Speaker B: His yoke is easy and his burden is light. Yeah. [00:05:55] Speaker A: Oh, I love that. It's so lovely. And this is too. I'm like, I love that this is the last episode of the year because I really want people to be able to listen and go, okay, like, all of this is doable. You can do this. You can do it tomorrow. You can start it in January. But, like, these are all things that we don't have to. We can stop just hoping and wishing for and actually, like, yes. Put into place a new year is a perfect time to do it, so. [00:06:16] Speaker B: Exactly. Exactly. And that's. That's my hope, is that going into the new year, people will consider integrating new practices in their life just so that they can walk into the highest and best purpose that God has for them. Yeah. [00:06:30] Speaker A: Well, on top of writing this, this book and this study, you also became the lead pastor of Good shepherd in Naperville, Illinois. Congratulations. [00:06:39] Speaker B: Thank you. [00:06:40] Speaker A: I don't think sometimes our listeners or my listeners understand how rare it is for a younger female person to be the lead pastor of a church whose husband is not in ministry. [00:06:53] Speaker B: Correct. Right, that's right. That's right. [00:06:56] Speaker A: So how did that come to be, Tara Beth? How did you find yourself in this position? [00:07:00] Speaker B: Yeah, so it's funny because my husband and I look back on just our lives together. We've been married for 20 years and he never thought that he would be married to a senior pastor one day. Yeah, you know, and I, I went to school to study ministry, I studied youth ministry, but I don't know it. I never really thought about long term vocation, like where do I want to be in 20 years? Like, I just wanted to serve God. I just wanted to preach the gospel. And back in the, you know, early 2000s, I wanted to lead young people to Jesus because I had been led to Jesus at 16 years old. And so I wanted to do the same. And I really never considered what it meant to be a pastor. And so. And you know, and some ways you could say that I fell into this. I never really sought out, actually, I never sought out. I never applied to be a student pastor before and. But you know, as time went on, the church that I'm serving at now, I was actually a youth pastor there for a really long time. And this church played a really big part in my formation becoming a pastor because they began to call, call things out of me. I was, you know, preaching to high schoolers on a Sunday night thinking like, we've just got our own thing going on down here in the bas basement, no one can see. And you know, one time one of the, the senior pastor came down and heard me preaching. He's like, I see something in you. I think you need to preach on a Sunday morning. And that was terrifying to me because that felt it was, it was a big church for a 20 something. And to even be asked to preach on a Sunday just felt like, I don't know if I can do this. I don't know if I can preach, you know, to a room this big. And then, you know, they said, hey, like we, we really see something in you and we would like for you to go to seminary and we will, we're going to help pay for that. And so I went to Northern Theological Seminary and was there for a long time, you know, had my children there, some of our best friends were there. And long story short, we call Good shepherd the Boomerang Effect because I ended up leaving Good shepherd for a decade. Never thought I was going to come back. And I was a senior pastor at a church in Southern California. We moved back to Chicagoland because my parents were sick and so I moved back to Chicago because my dad was dying of stage four stomach cancer. My mom had frontal temporal dementia. And they were really in a dire situation. And so we moved back home to take care of them. And I was, you know, found myself in this liminal space for a couple of years, which is where this book, Great Morning was born, because it was, it was a season of wilderness for me. And during that season, Good shepherd called and said, hey, we're looking for a senior pastor. Which I knew that because my best friends were still all there. And, and you know, at first I, my answer was no, because I was so just really kind of recovering from what I had gone through in Southern California. I pastored a church there, and it was in many ways really good years. And also it was a church that wasn't quite ready for a female okay at the lead. And so I, I really started to give up on just the idea that these larger churches would embrace women as this female senior pastor. And like, as you said, Kristen, there are a lot of pastors that are female that are co pastoring with their husband like this. That's really common. We see that a lot in the Ark, for example. And, you know, and so I celebrate those women in ministry. And oftentimes it's easier for some of these churches to embrace the female pastor because, well, she's, she's partnered with her husband. And my husband loves the Lord. He has a deep faith. He. He is a man of prayer. He's a man of God. And also he's not a pastor. He's. He's an engineer for NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory. Very different world. We think our, Our days are very different. Yeah. And, and so I just really started to give up. And so I told the church no, because, Kristen, I, I passionately believe in women in ministry. Obviously, I don't think it's a new school thing. I don't think it's progressive. I think that it is the oldest school thing there is. It is biblical. And we see this great tradition of women in ministry from the beginning. And so at the same time, I don't. I believe in women in ministry, but never at the expense of a local church or the female pastor. Sure. And that's what I experience in Southern California. They weren't ready and it ended up being incredibly contentious. I was a lightning rod. It wasn't good for me, it wasn't good for them, and I didn't want to do that again. I love the local church so much, and I also care about my. I love Myself? [00:11:45] Speaker A: Yes. [00:11:45] Speaker B: Yes. And so I didn't want to step into a church where I would become a lightning rod again. But over time, several months went by, and I had come to this church a couple times to preach for them because I was local. I was living just in Downers Grove, and I was working at a church in Oakbrook as a staff pastor, and I would come and preach for them. And then there was one Sunday where when I was done preaching, I just looked out at them and I thought, they need a mom. They need a mom. And, you know, I don't think that every female has to view, you know, pastoring or leading through the lens of mothering. I just do, because that's my story. I am a mom. I have two boys. And that's. That's had an impact on my life. It's had an impact on my biology. And. And so there was just something that leapt in me, you know, in the same way I think of, like, the way that Elizabeth's womb leapt when the Holy Spirit fell upon her. And she said, who am I that I should be able to see the one who would carry my Lord? And it was like the Holy Spirit came upon me in a really special way, and something leapt in me, and I just thought, okay, this church is in a season that they're ready for a mom and they need a mom. And even still, I often say that God drug me by my shoulders to that church because I remember. I remember before. Before being installed as the new lead pastor, being with a group of women pastors in Southern California that I deeply trust and care about. We're in an AirB BE, and I was just weeping, saying, I just don't know. Like, this is going to be a repeat of Southern California. They're not. I don't. You know, it just. It was like I was wrestling with the Lord. Like I told the Lord. Yes. But I still was. Was doubting. And when I got to the church, they were so excited, and they were. And I just kept saying, maybe we don't have to be so excited, you know, because it's not. If I disappoint you, like. Yeah, because if I disappoint you, like, it's just going to be a greater letdown. And I say to the church all the time that I am the most surprised at how well this has gone, because it's been. It's been three years now, and we are just on a momentum train. So many exciting things happening. And I love this church so much. And, you know, she is beautiful in Every way. Not perfect, of course, but I love. I just have this sense, like, we're going to grow old together. Like, I mean, they're. They're not going to grow old. They're just going to keep on, you know, reproducing and making disciples who make disciples. But, man, this is where I want to hang my hat. Yeah. [00:14:24] Speaker A: Yeah. I love that. I am, like, just sitting here your whole. We have such similar stories. Tara Beth, it is wild. It's wild. But I tell my congregate or people in our congregation all the time. I'm always like, oh, I'm so proud of you for doing this, and I'm so proud of you for doing that, because it does. It really feels like a family. And I came on staff, I guess it was technically the start of 2018. I was a kindergarten teacher. I had no plans to be in ministry. [00:14:53] Speaker B: So. [00:14:53] Speaker A: Also, my husband never thought he'd be married to a pastor. But I've been with this church since. It's like conception. Like, I helped launch this church. I was on the launch team. I've been here since day one. I've never, you know, this church has never had its existence without me. Not that it can't, but that's how much I love it, because I met my husband here. We. Our kids are now here, you know, and it does. It really. It can become, I think when you find the right church and the right community, it really does feel like a family where even when people leave, it's heartbreaking. But it doesn't mean that, like, that's reason to go just because other people are going, you know, and that can be really hard. But I also think really beautiful for people to choose to stay and. [00:15:39] Speaker B: Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. There is just something about learning fidelity and, you know, fidelity in the Lord and fidelity to one another, which is such a lost practice because we are just so quick to, you know, oh, the church isn't feeding me, or, oh, the church isn't, you know, the church has disappointed me. And there's something about fidelity of being able to look at one another and say, you know, I deeply disagree with you on this. But, man, if the Holy Spirit could keep the church together in Acts, Chapter 15 and the Council of Jerusalem, when they are going through contentious stuff, certainly we could learn the same kind of fidelity. [00:16:14] Speaker A: Yes. Congratulations again. And I know your church is so happy to have you, and I'm sure that they love you and all the things, but I also know it can be really hard to be a female pastor out in the world. Is there any particular question that you often get when people find out, like, what you do, that you're the lead pastor? [00:16:34] Speaker B: Oh, Kristen, I have a feeling that people look at you the same way. They do, I'm sure, like, we're on a. On a flight, and people ask what you do, because especially, like, I think you and I are like, I don't know, like, we're girly. Like, we like fashion. We, like, you know, we like all the things. And I think when people ask that I'm a pastor, they look at me up and down. You know, they're like, really? You're a pastor? Like, that just doesn't. It doesn't. It doesn't add up. It doesn't compute. [00:17:00] Speaker A: It's like. [00:17:00] Speaker B: But of course. Yeah, Right. Exactly. Nope. Right. Yeah. [00:17:03] Speaker A: Oh, because your husband's a pastor. That's my favorite. Like, I. It's always. So your husband's a pastor. [00:17:08] Speaker B: Yes. Yes. [00:17:09] Speaker A: Not even a little bit. [00:17:10] Speaker B: Yes. Yes. But then I often get, you know, if it's like, in the wild, like, someone that doesn't have any contacts to church, they're like, well, what's the pastor do? You know? [00:17:18] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:17:19] Speaker B: Yeah. So I think there's this a lot of confusion around, like, even my kids ask that. They're like, mom, what do you really do? [00:17:26] Speaker A: Like, day in and day out? [00:17:27] Speaker B: Like, what? [00:17:28] Speaker A: Actually. [00:17:28] Speaker B: Yeah. Yes. [00:17:30] Speaker A: That's funny. Well, I love that you mentioned, too. You know, we both have this, like, girly again. I think we're like, we're meant to be friends. [00:17:38] Speaker B: We are 100 meant to be friends. Yes. [00:17:40] Speaker A: I also. I can let the listeners know, like, we actually went to competing high schools. I mean. Yes. [00:17:44] Speaker B: Like, we realized that we maybe breathe the same air. [00:17:46] Speaker A: We had to, like. [00:17:48] Speaker B: Yes. Graduated the same year. I was. I was at that school all the. I mean, it was a really fast swim team. Like, they were. Kicked our butts every year, but that's. [00:17:57] Speaker A: I mean, we were, like, the largest high school in the entire Midwest. My graduating class had 1100 kids. [00:18:04] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Massive. Giant. Massive. Yes. [00:18:08] Speaker A: But, yes. [00:18:09] Speaker B: You. [00:18:09] Speaker A: You and I both have a love for makeup and fashion and girly and all of those. You even make Get Ready with Me videos on Sunday mornings, which I like. I only preach about once a month, and every time I do it, I get. I'm, like, halfway through my routine, and then I think of you. Well, like, when I finally sit down, put makeup on, I'm like, I don't know how Tara does this. She makes a whole video, and she. [00:18:33] Speaker B: Gets up to Preach well, you know, it's funny. So I just love Get Ready With Me videos. Like, there's several, like people that I follow just, I don't know, like, sometimes I'm like, why am I watching this? Like, like, why am I, why am I watching this woman put on mascara? But like, I can't look away. And so I, I watched these videos, I was like, you know what? Like, we could, we could maybe use this to talk to people about women in ministry and to talk to people about pastoring and I don't know. And it's been fun. [00:19:03] Speaker A: Has it been hard? Has it been a challenge to hold on to that like, fun and feminine side when you're wanting people to take you seriously, especially as a female pastor? [00:19:11] Speaker B: Yeah, you know what? It hasn't. And, and one of the things that I often say to it, maybe early on it was, I take that back, I take that back. It's not now, but early on as I was finding my voice as a woman in ministry and as I was trying to fit different leadership styles, I often say trying out leadership and wearing power is often like picking out a pair of shoes. What kind of leader am I supposed to be? And especially when we only see different male leader prototypes, we think, well then should I lead like that? And I just lead very differently. And, and even in the way that I carry myself and posture myself and we have to talk about the clothes that we wear, that all has an impact. And I remember I went through a blazer era because I thought I'm supposed to wear a blazer because I'm dying. [00:20:02] Speaker A: Why are we the same person? [00:20:06] Speaker B: I never went through a pantsuit era, but I did go through a long era. And I realized it was a problem when on Halloween someone came to church and they had a blazer, jeans and stilettos on. And I was like, are you me? I love it. [00:20:22] Speaker A: And then that's what I was like, clearly she is. [00:20:25] Speaker B: Yes, yes. Okay. But so one of the things that I often say is one of the things that's such a challenge for women ministry in the beginning is learning to embrace our God given voice. And I think that like this whole idea of anointing and spiritual authority is happens like it's this collision between the power of the Holy Spirit and, and our voice, like when we learn to carry ourselves and the ways that we've been formed in culture and society and the ways that we express ourselves in culture in society and we have this confidence about us and then when it's baptized with the Holy Spirit, I think that's when we start to see anointing, and that's when we start to see spiritual authority. And so. So all that to say is, I grew up going shopping with my mom, getting nails done. She would, you know, dress me to the nines. You know, like, she loved to dress me up. And that had an impact on me, for better and for worse. Right. Like, there's. There's a dark side to all of this, and at the same time, it's. It is just who I am. And so I have learned that there is power when we can carry ourselves with confidence in a ways that. That we've been formed and allow the Holy Spirit to. To collide in those places. And there's just something that. That it's a spiritual authority that attracts rather than demanding. Right. Because we're not trying to be someone else. We're not trying on someone else's power or leadership style, but we are leading in a way that only we can. [00:21:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:21:59] Speaker B: Long winded answer. [00:22:00] Speaker A: No, it's perfect. I love that you associated, like, the power of the Holy Spirit with confidence, because that's something that I get all the time. Like, how. How are you so confident when people can be mean and cruel? I mean, be on the Internet for 30 seconds, you know? [00:22:14] Speaker B: Yes. [00:22:15] Speaker A: And I love that answer. I love. Because it really is. And I'm like. Because I. I mean, my short answer is I figured out through the enneagram how God made me and, like, that he did it on purpose so I can stop hiding those parts of myself. But it really is, like. Yeah. Figuring out, like, this is what I look like, and this is how I lead and how I live when the Holy Spirit is going through me. And I'm not trying to, like, stifle it into a certain box. [00:22:41] Speaker B: Exactly, Exactly. [00:22:43] Speaker A: So what is your enneagram type? [00:22:46] Speaker B: I'm a six. [00:22:48] Speaker A: Okay. We finally found a difference. I'm a three. [00:22:50] Speaker B: Okay. So I'm a six. But I think I, you know, because of my job, I'm. Yeah. Maybe stressed a little bit. And so I lean into that three. [00:23:00] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I go into my six when I'm healthy, so maybe I can. I'm gonna be like you, Tarabeth. [00:23:06] Speaker B: Yes. There you go. [00:23:08] Speaker A: All right, well, thank you for sharing vulnerably about all that. I think these are things that, like, people like you and I take for granted because these are just our lives and our churches also, like, people at Mosaic, where I get to pastor, don't understand sometimes the criticism that they see, like, on instagram for example, because they don't experience it here, because I don't experience it here, because my church is so loving and kind and inclusive. And they see the imago day of everyone. And so to them, it's foreign. They're like, it doesn't make sense. But I know that that's not the case for everybody. So I like to do. [00:23:42] Speaker B: Amen. Yes, amen. Amen. I love that. I love that. [00:23:46] Speaker A: Well, I want to talk about. You've written a few books, but I want to talk about this book and study. Thank you for sending them. Look, I have both of them right here. [00:23:53] Speaker B: Awesome. [00:23:54] Speaker A: The Great Morning Revolution. Daily spiritual practices for meaningful moments with God. So tell us about. About the book. [00:24:02] Speaker B: Yeah. So your question at the start was you asked if I was always a morning person, and it was an absolutely not. And I shared the part of my story where I moved back to California to care for my family. And that was a really dire time. And I write a lot about that in the book, about just how dark it was. It was. It was a. It was a dark winter of the soul. Yeah. And I was waking up most mornings despondent and really just, you know, I'd come up. I was a senior pastor in beautiful Southern California. I moved back to really cold Chicagoland. Gray and gray. Chicagoland. Yeah. Like right now, it's. We're recording in December. I haven't seen the sun in, like, days. [00:24:43] Speaker A: It's like July. [00:24:44] Speaker B: Yes, exactly. Exactly. Yes. And so I, you know, I. I was a staff pastor really going through that phase, like, wondering our church is going to be ever ready for female senior pastors. And. Yeah. And just wondering, you know, okay, like, what is. What is. What is the purpose in all of this and bringing me back for this? And after about a year of being back, the Lord just shook me and spoke very vividly, not audibly to me, but spoke very vividly and just said, terabith, it's time to wake up. And I knew that God was calling me to wake up spiritually, but I also knew that I had to change some habits and practices for that to happen. And so I said, okay, well, I'm gonna literally wake up God. And I started waking up every morning at 4:30am and beginning with God. And I made the decision that instead of reaching for my phone first thing in the morning, I was going to allow God to set the agenda of my day. Allow God to set the intentions of my day. And because I realized that my phone was just an incredibly powerful deformative force and that it was meeting me in the morning when my mind was still a blank canvas, when everything was just fresh and his mercies are new. In the morning and I'm feeling good and this stress from yesterday is gone. And I pick up my phone and all of a sudden all the stress from yesterday comes crashing into my mind. And all of a sudden this powerful little device was setting the attention, my intentions and agenda for the day. So I started waking up every morning at 4:30am and it was just amazing how like almost instant, like day three, I could not wait for the next morning. And I was starting to crave my mornings with God. And I would go to God in scripture and journaling and I say to my husband, hey, it's going to be a great day. And he'd say, why? I said, because I had a great morning. He said, why? Because I began with God. And you know what? My dad is dead and my mom is dying and so much in life is so hard, but it's still great because I experience the blessings of God. So no matter what comes my way, it's a great day. And I would say that every day. And then as I was, you know, looking at different ways to shape my morning God, just like. And just this great came into an acronym in my mind which stands for gratitude, reflection, exaltation, asking and trusting. And that is now how I shape my mornings. Now I don't wake up at 4:30. Right now I'm waking up at 6. [00:27:31] Speaker A: I was gonna ask. [00:27:32] Speaker B: Yeah, because that's where I am in life. I have teenagers now. And you know, I have the privilege to sleep in a little bit more because they're teenagers and they can get themselves ready. I need to make their breakfast, you know, and so 6. This is still plenty of time for me to have an hour with God before I really get going in the day. Yeah. [00:27:52] Speaker A: Well, thank you for sharing that. I know I was, I looked at great. I was flipping through it and it reminded me of acts like, you know, people would pray, like adoration, confession, Thanksgiving, supplication. I was like, is this similar? Is this the same idea? So walk us through. Walk us through. I mean, you don't have to obviously do like a deep dive, but walk us through the five different parts. [00:28:13] Speaker B: Yeah. So the first one is gratitude, which for me really just begins with sitting in the presence of God, sometimes silence, and just allowing myself to be open and aware to the presence of the Holy Spirit and man in the first morning hours when we encounter the presence of God, gratitude flows. It just Flows. And it doesn't have to be complex. It doesn't have to be this deep theological expose. Like most mornings. I'm. I'm grateful for. For the warmth of the blanket that I'm under. I'm grateful for my husband that's next to me and praying with me. I'm grateful for the fireplace at drawing. I'm grateful that I have healthy children. You know, it doesn't have to be this. This, as my kids say, it doesn't have to be that deep. And so. So then from there I move into reflection. And reflection is, you know, comes from the Saint Ignatius prayer of examine, of like looking into the mirror and allowing God to examine my heart, mind and soul. And where there's any discrepancy in my life that is not refle or mirroring God. And I do that by beginning with Scripture and allowing the Word to just sink into my heart and then say, okay, God, examine me. Where in my life are you demanding or calling me to repent? And then from there goes exaltation, because I've just. I've just repented. And it was met with grace. How could I not exalt God? How could I not magnify it? It's that. It's that that great prayer of Mary in the Magnificat. My soul magnifies the Lord not because we need to make God bigger, but because we want to view God in rightful place. And so that often is expressed through reading of Psalm 145, or turning on a psalm, a song of worship and praising God in that way. Or this morning, it was really just, God, I exalt you, I praise you, for you're the God of creation. I was looking out my window and we have, you know, a foot of snow. And it's beautiful, like you're the God of creation. You just set the world into motion and you make snow beautiful. How wild is that? You make snow beautiful. And then from there is ask. And these are the prayer petitions where we are bringing our requests before God. And, you know, so for me right now, I'm in a season where I, you know, I'm a caretaker for my mom with dementia. She's in hospice. I've got boys. And so I'm often bringing those requests before God. And then we end in trust. And it's that simple prayer. Not my will, but yours be done. Sometimes I end on the Lord's Prayer sometimes and with simply, not my will, but yours be done. And sometimes I end with Psalm 23, because Psalm 23, for me is an incredible psalm that by the time I get there, I'm just able to just rest and in the presence and the power of God and trust that he is leading me. Yeah. [00:30:40] Speaker A: Thank you for walking us through that. For people that are listening and getting overwhelmed by, like, I can't do all of these things. Roughly how long does this take? [00:30:50] Speaker B: Oh, it can be done in five minutes. [00:30:52] Speaker A: Oh, okay. [00:30:54] Speaker B: It can be done on the go. Okay. It doesn't. You know, I think, and I say that because I am really privileged right now that I can take an hour in the morning. Yeah. Okay. [00:31:04] Speaker A: Season of life. [00:31:06] Speaker B: Season of life. Yeah. Some people are working multiple jobs, and they need that last ounce of sleep. Right. And so for some people that might be. Get on the move, like, you're. You're getting out of bed and you're getting in the shower, man, like, turn that worship music on and. And allow, like, I would say, still say, don't reach for the phone if you don't have to, and turn that worship music on. And as you are in the shower, like, just allow the presence of God to wash over you. And as you're driving into work or you're on the bus, you know, turn on that worship music and just connect. The big idea is give your first fruits to God. Yeah, that's. That's the idea. I happen to spend, you know, anywhere from 30 to 45 minutes in the morning, but that's just where I am right now. I would say most people, you know, don't have time for that. I think if you could get 5 minutes, 15 minutes, and if it's on the go, if it's. If you're a nursing mama and you're awoken by a crying baby, go take care of that baby. Love that baby, and, you know, find time to connect with God while you're. While you're nursing or while you're changing the diaper. Yeah. [00:32:04] Speaker A: Okay. I love that because I was trying to think. I'm like, what if people really are not morning people? Could they do it later? Could they do it in the evening? But you're saying it's so quick, like, really can. [00:32:14] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And again, it's just give our first fruits to God. Yeah. Yeah. [00:32:19] Speaker A: I went through a season. I'm still kind of on the tail end of the season. I think I'm trying to come out of it. But we went through a season where even though my girls are old enough to get themselves ready, they're still young enough that, like, they do need. I need to have margin to help brush hair when there's not. So I need to have margin to help, you know, make breakfast or whatever. And so I would find my. Now granted, I'd already been up for an hour, hour and a half at this point. But like when I'm sitting down and putting my makeup on is the, the only time in the morning where I'm like, I actually sit still for a minute. [00:32:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:32:53] Speaker A: So I will put on like an audible exam and prayer or something like that. I think it's lectio divina, which I love so much. And they have accents and they all talk so calmly. And I put that on and I listen to that while I'm not making a Get Get Ready with me video. But while I am getting ready and it does, it helps to just kind of like slow everything down. [00:33:17] Speaker B: Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. Yep. Exactly. And I know in the mornings when I'm getting ready, oftentimes worship music is on. And especially on Sunday mornings. I mean, just staying in tune with the Holy Spirit before, before entering into ministry is just so important. [00:33:34] Speaker A: Yeah. So Terabeth, you have the book and then you also wrote a six session Bible study guide that has like videos and other things. Do people need both? What's the difference between the book and the study? [00:33:47] Speaker B: Yeah, they don't need both. I think, you know, the study is for those who want to do a deeper dive into some of these things. And the book is going to be a little bit lighter. Okay, let her read a little bit more. Kind of me and my story and vulnerable. The Bible study. If someone's a verbal processor, get a group, join a group, get a friend to do it with you. Because it's a great way to hold each other accountable. And I know I'm a Faith Gateway Bible study. There's a group called Online Bible Study for anyone listening. Starting in January, we're doing the Bible study and it's these little online groups that people can jump on. So if there's a listener that's like, I don't have anyone. Hey, you can do it online beginning. [00:34:27] Speaker A: This January through Faith Gateway. [00:34:30] Speaker B: Faith Gateway. [00:34:31] Speaker A: I'll put it in the show notes too. That's really great. Yeah, it's a, it's a stunning. I mean, the COVID I just, I want to like frame this and hang. [00:34:38] Speaker B: Out because it's so gorgeous. They did such a good job. [00:34:42] Speaker A: But yeah, inside, I mean, the study is. It's got, it's got prayers, it's got bullets, it's got questions, it's got charts. I mean like for anybody that really wants to. I think if you're, if you are struggling to go, like, I don't know if I can hold myself accountable to this or actually like create the habit. It. You really just walk people through it. [00:35:03] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. That's the hope. That's the hope. And you know, some people just need these studies for it to really be downloaded in their heart and their soul so that it becomes, you know, because there's something about like just savoring scripture instead of just reading to get through it. Yeah. But like savoring it, like mulling over it, just sitting in it. And that's, that's the idea of the study. [00:35:23] Speaker A: Is there one of these in particular, of the gratitude, exaltation. I'm getting them all wrong. I didn't write them down, so I'm not watching. Is there one in particular right now, Tarabeth, that you're like, I think the world is really missing this. Or we could use a lot more of. [00:35:38] Speaker B: Not the world. [00:35:40] Speaker A: The American church. Let me narrow it down that like, you think we really could stand to lean into right now. [00:35:46] Speaker B: Yes. Let's talk about examine. [00:35:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:49] Speaker B: The American church. You know, there's. There's just a lot of pointing outward. Yeah. And no looking inward. And if, if the church would just examine and say, search our hearts, O God. Reveal to us where there's idolatry. Reveal to us where we have deformed your gospel. Reveal to us where we have misused and misaligned and abused scripture. Revealed to us in the ways that we have taken modern day ideology and tried to force scripture into that God revealed to us in the ways that we have not borne witness to the God of love. And so if we could just as the church examine, do communal examine. Yeah. I think the world would be very different. [00:36:40] Speaker A: What do you think is blocking people from. Because I'm, I agree with you. I think there's a lot of looking outward, not looking inward. I think there's a lot of. [00:36:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:48] Speaker A: Calling out the plank in other people's eye, you know? [00:36:51] Speaker B: Yeah. I think it's fear. Fear. Yeah. I think that a lot of Christians are being driven by fear. Yeah. The world is changing very rapidly right now. And it just feels like, you know, what was around yesterday is changing today. You know, just the language, the vernacular, the way that we're, you know, see, and, and I think that because of that, what ends up happening is there ends up being a doubling down, trying to protect. Yeah. And when we get like that doubling down and protecting, a couple things happen. We're driven by fear. And we then also are seduced into this, like, binary way of thinking that everything's black and white, right and wrong, victim, villain. And we're looking to categorize people and find out who the victims are and find out who the villains are. Yeah. [00:37:38] Speaker A: And we always, always put ourselves as the victim, never as the villain. We always put ourselves as the one that needs protecting and the other people as people we need protection from. [00:37:46] Speaker B: That's right. Right. That's right. I saw. [00:37:48] Speaker A: Gosh, now I'm gonna kick myself that I can't remember who it was. But I saw somebody post on Instagram recently that was like, no person is a garbage person, including the people who are saying that other people are garbage people. Like, they're not garbage people either. And that one got me. I was like, oof. Because it's so easy to go, okay. These people are doing it so wrong. [00:38:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:38:10] Speaker A: And then. But also go. But, like, okay. But also, God loves them. And also I need to love them and pray for them and also not call them names, even in my own mind. [00:38:19] Speaker B: Right. [00:38:19] Speaker A: Even if what I think they're doing is so terrible and wrong. [00:38:22] Speaker B: Like, right. [00:38:23] Speaker A: We all have to do this. We all have to go, God, show me in humility, where I'm tempted to become the very thing that I am being critical of. [00:38:34] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you think about the very beginning in the fall when Adam and Eve, when they realized they were naked, they wanted to hide from God. Yeah, yeah. And I think that what we're seeing in the American church is we're fooling ourselves, and we don't want to admit that, like, we're naked, that we don't want to be vulnerable before God. And so we're hiding so good. Yeah. [00:38:57] Speaker A: And it's so hard. Do you feel as a pastor, like, a tension of what to say and what to not say and how to call things out? [00:39:06] Speaker B: Absolutely. Absolutely. It's a constant challenge. And, you know, and I think some of it is because, like, we are surrounded a culture of politics is performance, and political performance just doesn't move the needle. It doesn't. It just only creates more polarization. And I have found that in the work of trying to have some of these more difficult conversations, like, we can't just address the symptoms, and that's what so many are doing. Like, we're making statements, and we're only addressing the symptoms. Okay. We're not addressing the deep, the. The iceberg, the thing beneath the thing that is leading to these symptoms. Bad kingdom theology for Example, bad reading of Scripture, for example. We're not, you know, even addressing, like, trauma. Well, in the ways that, like, that is, like, driving the ways that we are interacting. And so, you know, for me, navigating some of these. These harder, more political things that we're seeing in our world happen in the more smaller, hidden spaces of discipleship. [00:40:03] Speaker A: Is there anything you're doing with your church or with your. Your congregation to try to, like, get down into the iceberg? [00:40:11] Speaker B: Yeah. So, for example. Well, there's two things that we're doing right now. So one thing is we have something called theology cohorts, which is like a school of theology. So every Thursday for two hours, we have a group of people that come and dig in. We have three semesters, hermeneutics, church history, and Christian theology. And then we also get into formation. And so we just finished our first semester of hermeneutics. And man, like, I was able to, like, really dig it. And it's not just me teaching. Like, we're bringing seminary professors that are coming in and teaching this, and they, like, we're able to dismantle some really, really big things. Because I. The. The phrase that I have been using these days of, like, what I feel like the work of some of us pastors are attempting to do is this work of attempting to dismantle a demonic malformation of the Christian imagination. Because it's demonic. Because, I mean, it's. When we're trying to dismantle it, like, how. What's the reaction? Yeah, it's demonic, and it is a malformation of the Christian imagination, and we're trying to dismantle that. And so it has to be done carefully. Right. And slowly. And so that we're not bringing. So the theology cohorts is one. We also just recently had an immigration forum where we brought in World Relief. And, you know, because, again, like, a statement on a Sunday morning is just not going to do the job. It's just going to polarize people even more. So, hey, let's have a family room conversation and let's walk through a biblical theology on this, where we're in the room together and, like, we're having to look at one another in the eye as we talk about this and practice fidelity together and pray that the Holy Spirit is here and wrestle through some. We're still wrestling through that. You know, we're in Chicago and it's. And it's. I know, it's. It's headed towards you guys now. Yeah. So. But. And then another thing is you know, for me, one of the ways to often respond to situations happening in the world is through liturgy. Okay. And, you know, so through responsive readings and litanies, it allows a congregation to practice empathy and give them language for what's happening. [00:42:24] Speaker A: Yeah, we have something a little smaller scale than your theology cohorts. We call it the table, but it's basically. Yet we're like, everybody come sit around the table. And we literally do put up tables and chairs, and we do an old school potluck dinner. We're like, here's the theme. Sign up. And we eat together, and then we talk about all kinds of things that we don't have a. Almost like we can do on this podcast, but within our. Within our church, where people can have conversations and. Yeah, we can address and kind of break down some of the nuance of things and go, no, no, no. [00:42:55] Speaker B: Like, yeah, right. [00:42:56] Speaker A: Actually, scripturally, this is what we can see and this is what we know, you know? And so, yeah, we have to, like, dismantling is a really great way to put it. We have to tear a lot of stuff down before we can rebuild healthily. [00:43:09] Speaker B: Exactly. Exactly. [00:43:11] Speaker A: Well, Tara Beth, thank you so much for being here. Listen, I have to ask you the question that I ask everybody, our last question, because the podcast is called Becoming Church. How can the people listening become the church to the people around them? [00:43:23] Speaker B: Yeah. So I often say that I still believe in the church because Jesus believes in. And I believe deeply in being transformed by the renewing of our minds. And I. I often look at the Sermon on the Mount as Jesus's ultimate vision statement for how the church can be the church to the people in the world around them. And so rather than telling, like, people what specifically to do, I'm interested in, like, how people are being formed. Spend a year in the Sermon on the Mount. Yeah. Spend a year in the Sermon on the Mountain. Watch how the Spirit changes you. [00:43:58] Speaker A: That's awesome. We just recently did a series right before Christmas called God bless you, which was the Beatitudes from the Sermon on the Mount. So, yes. Love that. Well, I will link up your book and the study and the online place that people can go if they want to do a study with a group. But thank you so much for being here. You are such a lovely person. Outside, inside. This has been a delight. [00:44:20] Speaker B: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. This has been a delight for me as well. Thank you. Foreign. [00:44:28] Speaker A: I'm so incredibly grateful for another year with you. I have already recorded a few episodes for next year, and you're not going to want to miss them. So be sure that you are following becoming church on whatever platform you like to listen to. You'll want those automatic downloads turned on so that you don't have to remember to come back and see who's here next. I can't wait to see you in January with one the of of my favorite people in the whole entire planet to talk about faith adjacent things in pop culture that entertain and do matter. Until then, thanks so much for listening and keep becoming the church to the people around you.