Episode Transcript
[00:00:10] Speaker A: Welcome to Becoming Church, the podcast where we discuss how the message and movement of Jesus is not just about becoming Christians, but about becoming the church. I'm your host, Kristin Mochler Young, and our guest today is going to help us look for patterns that are probably trying to hide away from us. Now, you don't need a magnifying glass or detective gear, although the right accessories can make discovering things more fun. But my guest, Tori Hope Peterson, is going to teach us how to identify patterns, find the courage to face them, and help us understand why it's important for our healing.
All right, Tori, welcome to Becoming Church.
[00:00:52] Speaker B: Thank you for having me, Kristen.
[00:00:54] Speaker A: I'm excited to have you. We are about a month into 2025 and we're going to talk about your book that's about patterns. And so just to kind of get started, is there a pattern that you've started that you love?
[00:01:08] Speaker B: Ooh, listen, let me be totally honest with you and first say that I'm not a very routine person.
[00:01:15] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:01:16] Speaker B: However, something that I have loved is. And this sounds so cliche now that I'm about to say it, but I like making bread. It's. I think it's something that it's like, like all girls are in their bread making era. You know what I mean? So when I said I'm like, oh, that sounds so cliche, but it is something that I really enjoyed. Just like, working with my hands. It's a new thing. I am not like a sourdough woman.
[00:01:40] Speaker A: I was gonna ask, like, do you have a particular, like, kind?
[00:01:43] Speaker B: Oh, so I do this. No need. It's like the easiest bread recipe in the world.
I am not like a sourdough person. I actually make kombucha. And so, like, I feel like when you make kombucha, you have to keep a scoby alive. And so I feel like that's like my live thing that I'm doing and I can't do. I can't also do the sourdough starter, keeping that alive. So, yeah, I do this, like, no need. Super easy. I use dry yeast, but I just enjoy doing it and I probably do it like once or twice a week.
Well, no, it's. I have to say I'm not a.
[00:02:20] Speaker A: Bread maker, so I'm like, that sounds like so much.
[00:02:23] Speaker B: No, I'm going to give you my bread recipe and it's so, so easy. It's like you're making bread out of a box or something, but it's not a box. But like, that's really how easy it is. So at night, you just put the recipe together, you put it in a bowl, it rises, and then I wake up in the morning, I put it in the oven, and I love it because it makes my whole house smell like bread.
And they. I've read, you know, like, those little articles when you're doing things or when you're like, Facebook or Instagram, they know that you're doing something. These articles pop up. So the other day, there was an article that said, baking bread in your house smelling like bread makes the people in your home more friendly with one another. So I don't know if that's true, but I'm going, okay, well, this is gonna be.
[00:03:09] Speaker A: You do your science with, like, your kombucha and having to keep things alive. I'm gonna do a science experiment with my two daughters and see if they get along better. Getting ready to school for school when the house smells like bread.
[00:03:20] Speaker B: There you go. Exactly.
[00:03:23] Speaker A: Well, that's awesome. Okay, I love that. I love that. That's great. How about a pattern that you're breaking this year?
[00:03:31] Speaker B: I feel like the past two years, three years, my whole life actually, has been all about breaking patterns and breaking cycles.
When it came to this year, I was thinking, you know, like you said, we're in the first month of January, and I was kind of thinking, like, what does this January, this year, 2025 look like for me? And there were two kind of different ideas that came to mind. The first one was just being gentler with myself.
I think that I'm just hard on myself.
And so, yeah, I think my. The first of the year, I have. It's called endometriosis. And really, it's just a bunch of scarring on your ovaries. It's something that women get. Can get. I think it's like 1 in 10 women have it, and it can be really painful. Different times of the month. And so I laid in bed, like, you know, it's like the first of the year, and all of your friends are, like, working out, and they're, like, doing all the cool new things, or, like, the night before, they had this awesome party and they were all together and those like, I laid in bed the first day of the year, all day. And I was like, lord, what are you trying to tell me? And I just felt he was like, be gentler. Like, this is. This is. You have to be gentle with yourself. And this is a perfect example. I'm forcing you into this gentleness. And I. I just feel like that is what he wants. Me to do for the rest of the year. And then the other thing that came to my mind is just coming back to myself. I think when you. And you can probably identify with this when you are someone is constantly speaking for other people and putting yourself out there for other people, you can lose sight of you're doing. You're producing so much for others that you can lose sight of maybe creating and making something beautiful for me, for yourself. And so.
And I don't quite know what that looks like, but that's a question that I've been asking myself. What would it look like to kind of create something that is very Tori.
[00:05:44] Speaker A: Oh, I can't wait to see what that is when you figure it out. But I love that too. Even the fact that you said I need to be gentler with myself. And I don't know what that looks like. I think that's modeling such a beautiful. I mean, that's really what faith is. Right. It's like, okay, God, I'm trusting that this is what you have for me this year, even though I can't explain or have a clear path of what that actually is.
[00:06:08] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
[00:06:09] Speaker A: I know for me, I'm sitting here, I've had a pinched nerve in my neck for the last like two weeks, and I'm doing chiropractor and heating pads and medicine. Like nothing is making a difference. And so when you talked about everybody, like working out in the beginning of the year, I'm just like looking at my peloton bike, like, maybe one day I'll get there. But I did not expect this to happen. And so same like, I feel like my kind of vibe for the year is God just wants me to pause when I need to pause.
[00:06:39] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:40] Speaker A: And so even though it's not super fun, I do feel like he was like, let's put this into practice.
Start pausing right now because you don't have a choice, actually.
[00:06:49] Speaker B: Yes. Very similar. So do you choose a word for the year? Like is your word for the year? Pause.
[00:06:53] Speaker A: So I usually do. I usually. I guess it is. If I had to pick one, I usually am like vision board, goal, resolution, all the things. And this year, I don't know, it's more of just like a sense of calm. Like, I just feel like this.
It doesn't make sense to me, honestly, because I am like a go getter and I have things I want to do this year, but I don't know. Yeah, I just feel like I need to have a sense of calm which requires a pause, you know?
[00:07:17] Speaker B: Yeah. That's so good. I. I usually do the same thing. Maybe. I wonder if this is consistent among just all of us, like, ambitious, go get women. Because I usually do the same thing. Last year, going into 2024, did a huge division party with a bunch of women from my church, Hosted it at my house and was like, I ain't even staying up till midnight. We are not watching that ball drop. I'm going to bed. Like.
[00:07:41] Speaker A: I love it. We did New Year's with my sister at her house and the neighborhood kids where they did the ball drop at 10, like, for the kids, the whole thing. But then we were like, time to go. Gotta go to bed.
[00:07:53] Speaker B: That's a good idea. That's what we should do. Because we have littles. And that's why I was like, I'm going to bed. Yes.
[00:07:59] Speaker A: That's the best thing.
Well, you have this gorgeous book that I have right here called Breaking the Patterns that break you. And before we even get into the goodness inside, this cover is stunning. It is so gorgeous. And so I right away recognize what I think you did here with the gold and the cracks. And so talk to people who might not know about this concept, the intentionality.
[00:08:26] Speaker B: Yes. You're so. You're smart. Um, so I did, you know, for the. For people who don't know the world of books and publishing. I didn't before I started it. Sometimes, like, a publisher will choose your cover. Sometimes the author chooses it or, you know, they can design it. But for me, I. I came up with the concept. I was like, I want it to be patterns that are literally being broken that are literally being cracked. So you'll see on the COVID that there's a bunch of patterns, but also there are cracks in between those patterns. And there is a Japanese form of art called kintsugi art. And what kintsugi art is, is it's when, like, a ceramic piece or maybe a really valuable piece of art, something beautiful, it breaks.
And the Japanese. And the Japanese culture, they don't just throw that away when it breaks. What they do is they mend it back together with this gold powder. They turn the powder into, like, a liquid glue, and then they put the ceramic or the piece of art, the broken thing, back together. And the idea of this is that you don't just discard your brokenness. Actually using this goal to mend it back together is what makes it more valuable. And I think that's what healing is. That's what breaking generational cycles and breaking patterns is. We can break these patterns, but our Brokenness is not something to just, like, discard, throw in the past and walk away from. When I think of my own brokenness and my past and my hurt, it has made me who I am. I wouldn't be who I am without it. I wouldn't be as gritty, I wouldn't be as compassionate, and I wouldn't have a heart to serve the vulnerable if it wasn't for my brokenness. So the idea is that, yes, we can break these patterns. The patterns are literally broken on the book cover. But if we heal, if we mend it back together intentionally, our brokenness can be something beautiful.
[00:10:23] Speaker A: Yeah. It always reminds me of in Jeremiah where he's talking about, you know, like, the. We have to be the clay and the potter's hand. And I think even our faith sometimes we can do that. Is our faith feels broken or we feel like we don't have enough, and God is like, hey, we can just put it back together. As long as you stay in my hand, let me, you know, glue your little broken pieces back together. Can you give an example, Tori, of something in your past that maybe other people would tell you, hey, this is brokenness, or even you are broken because of it, that you have made something beautiful out of?
[00:10:58] Speaker B: Yeah. So for those of you who are very unfamiliar with my background, I grew up in the foster care system. That's typically what people know me for.
I share my story of growing up in the foster care system and then finding faith and family through the system. But the system was truly so difficult. I spent. I grew up in 12 different homes, was moved throughout 12 different homes, had witnessed abuse in homes, was labeled, you know, a liar when I reported it. It was just hard. And I think when I look at the statistics of foster care, of youth aging out of foster care are very saddening.
Many youth who age out and age out means, you know, the day you turn 18, you are no longer a foster child.
They're very sad. Many end up on drugs, incarcerated, homeless. And so when I look at my background, you know, that is where I was supposed to be.
But by the grace of God, by his hand over my life, you know, that that brokenness has become. He has redeemed it. He has made it beautiful. And, you know, just last week I went to Florida and I was at this residential facility. And a residential facility is in America. That's where typically when they can't find a home for a kid, for a foster kid, for some reason, they send them to a residential facility. And it's where there's staff. It's a home where there's staff that take care of the kids. And so I went there and I went and spoke to over 100 youth, and it was just so encouraging. Every time I get to do something like that, you know, you literally see the worst parts of my life turn into something good. And I got to. Afterwards, it was a whole day workshop, so I spoke. And then I actually got to sit with the kids and work with them and help them process through their own stories. And when, you know, when I'm just sitting there and I realize, you know, I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for all of the pain, all of the hurt, all of the brokenness.
[00:13:16] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, thank you for. Thank you for sharing that. And I know that your first book talks about your story, too, and so we'll link that up for anybody that's interested. And I just know that you encouraged those kids. I know that you just give them so much hope. So I just want to remind you and encourage you that I know it's probably hard looking at their current situations and even having to go back and relive, you know, some past experiences, but God's doing the work in you, sister. So keep on.
[00:13:45] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:13:45] Speaker A: Keep on. Well, in this book, breaking the patterns that break you, you have it broken down the chapters into, like, 14 different lies that people believe. How did you come up with what lies you were going to tackle?
[00:13:58] Speaker B: Okay, a lot of people have been asking this. How'd you come up with the lies? Like, these are just very real lies that were in my head. Like, I dysfunctioned from these things. And I realized. And maybe they weren't, like, explicit. Like, I think some of them are, like, scripts, you know, that kind of ran through my head over and over again. But then some of them were just lies that I function from. Like, maybe they weren't ones that I spoke over myself or that someone else spoke over me, but they were ideas that I let lead me into destructive patterns or into unhealthy relationships.
[00:14:32] Speaker A: So is this a book that people need to read, like, in order, or is it one that they could kind of open up and go, okay, so, like, you know, lie eight, there's something wrong with you? Or lie nine, you're a baby Christian, so your faith is immature. Can they just, like, jump into the right one?
[00:14:47] Speaker B: Yeah, I think you could jump into it. There is kind of like a story that is being told throughout the book, but you could definitely jump in if, like, something stands out to you and you're like, I'm. I'm feeling suffocated by this lie and I just need to read it. You could definitely jump in, but there is a story being told from beginning to end as well. And I think you do get a fuller picture of how these lies can kind of. The thing about patterns, the thing about lies is that they are so discreet.
They are. When we are functioning from patterns, they're very quiet, they're very sneaky. And it's usually because it's all we've ever known. It's just what we've always functioned from. Not maybe maliciously and probably unintentionally. And so when you read the whole book, I think you see how one lie can kind of build on another.
But at the same time, you can definitely just open it and be like, oh, I identify with that and read one.
[00:15:46] Speaker A: I need this. Yeah. Was there one in particular that was either the hardest for you to write or maybe like, surprised you that you didn't expect?
[00:15:55] Speaker B: So the very first lie in the book, and I recognize it is a very controversial. It can be controversial in Christian spaces, but the very first lie in the book is that self love is selfish. And I think that in these, in our Christian world, in our churches, we are told to die to yourself, absolutely. We are told less of you, more of God. And I think when we, when we actually truly want to function from that, what can happen is that again, going back to what I said in the beginning, we can do this thing where we just absolutely lose ourselves, like completely, because we don't. For me, I didn't have confidence in myself. I didn't think, oh, there's nothing. There's nothing good in me. So I need. Because that's what, that's what was spoken over me. Whether it was in the foster care system, whether it was by my biological parents, it was like, these are the things that were spoken over me. And so I just didn't believe that there was anything good in me. And so then to hear like, you need to have less of yourself, like, pretty much get rid of yourself and more of God, it kind of continued. It was a way that that narrative of just that I'm bad and I need to figure out how to run away from myself, continued.
And then through mentorship, through scripture, through prayer, it just occurred to me that, like, God did a good job making me and God and God did a good job making you. Anyone who's listening to this, like, right, we go back to Genesis 1 and it says, God looked at all that. He created. And he determined that it was good. Like, he made it good. And so I think for a long time I felt like that if I said that, that would be boastful or that would be sinful. But while God doesn't want us to live in our sin or in our flesh, he does want us to live who he's created us to be. He wants us to live as who he's created us to be. And so what I like to say instead is like, more of God, more of who God has created me to be. And I think that sometimes we can get so caught up in these sayings, but we don't actually realize what they're doing to us. And so that's why I don't believe that self love is selfish. I believe that loving ourself as God has created us, as God loves us, is actually holy. And it's honoring to God who is our creator and who did a good job making us.
[00:18:31] Speaker A: Yeah, it is honoring to God too, because I think that sentiment sometimes misses the idea of, like, yes, God created you and called you good, but God also created you in his image. Like, you are a reflection of God to the world. So you're doing people around you a disservice if you're not showing off. You know, that, like, unique perspective of him that only you have.
[00:18:53] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, you have gifts that God has given you. And that's another thing. Right. We, I think sometimes as Christians, we function through self hatred and we call it humility. And self hatred is not humility. It is not holy. Loving who God created us, who God created us to be is holy.
[00:19:11] Speaker A: Yeah. I think on the flip side, I also was raised like, you know, we have to. All the things you said put other people before yourselves. Like, don't be selfish. But it wasn't because I was. The words spoken over me were not that I was not good. It was that I was good. Like, I was good. I was a first child. I was all the like, goody two shoes things. But it was like, because of that that I needed to prove my goodness or prove how much I loved God by putting other people. Like that was how I showed God that I loved him and that I would be a good Christian. So different words, maybe different motivation, but still landed in that same place. Right. Of like, I still have to put other people before myself. And even as an adult, I had to go to therapy and unlearn, like, I'm allowed to celebrate when I accomplish something or, you know, and it's not braggy and it's not boastful, but that's something that I still struggle with and I downplay a lot.
[00:20:08] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Own the good of who God has created you to be and what he's created you to do. I hope that that encourages someone who has maybe been stifled, whether they had a good childhood, bad childhood. I think we're all walking, especially women walking in. Many of us are walking in that self hatred and calling it humility.
[00:20:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
Since the concept of kintsugi has kind of become a theme in this conversation, I'm going to link up a sermon that I gave at Mosaic that covers the same idea of brokenness. If you feel like your faith is drying or it's cracking, or if you yourself feel fragile on. On the verge of breaking apart, I hope that you'll find hope and the truth that God's light shines in the darkness. And sometimes it's only through the cracks that we see his truth revealed.
Well, Tori, I want to ask you another question, but I feel like I have to give you a little story real quick because this is. As I was prepping for this episode, I did a thing the other day, and it smacked me so hard in the face. I was like, oh, no, this is exactly what Tori said talking about.
So I had to look at myself in the mirror and, like, swallow this jagged pill of, oh, my gosh. I think this is a pattern that I didn't even realize I was doing. So we were at a gathering. I'm gonna try to keep this baby. We were at a gathering, and it was. It was good. It was great. Like, there was no drama. Everybody got along. It was fun, you know, whatever. But I afterwards ruined it for someone that I love because it wasn't good enough for my expectations.
And I think without realizing it, all I could see. I couldn't see what was good. I couldn't see how great it was. All I could see was this really, truly unrealistic expectation I have in my brain of, like, what I wanted it to be. And because it wasn't that, all I saw was the lack, if that makes sense.
And I was lovingly told that I maybe look for things that are not there. Like, I look for negativity that's not there. I look for people to, you know, be mean to me when it's not actually happening. And I don't know what it was in that conversation. And I felt so bad, but I was like, I think I'm realizing that this is a pattern that I'm doing without even knowing it all that to say, how can we without being called out? Which sometimes that is what it takes. But how can we even begin to recognize the patterns that. That we're repeating when it's like that and we don't even know that we're doing them?
[00:22:52] Speaker B: Kristen, that is so reflective of you and so just humble to be like, here's what I did just the other day.
I love that.
I do think, I like to use the term people are not calling me out, they're calling me up.
I think that sometimes that is what we need. We need good people around us who are willing to say, kristen, I saw this in you. Tori, I'm seeing this in you. And we need to, as people be able to receive that feedback and criticism. And I think we have to have discernment. Because something that I have noticed in my life is that one of the ways that when I came to faith, and I think how I grew in faith and how I grew more mature and healed from my trauma was simply by receiving the feedback that the people around me gave me.
And it was just like when someone was like, hey, Tori, I see this in you. I was like, okay, I'm going to work on that. And I took it really seriously. And as I, as time has went on, I have come to realize that I do have to have discernment because not everything is that someone tells us, is for us. And so there are times when somebody may tell me something and I'll think on it. And I just think I don't receive that. Like, that's not. For me, that wasn't. Yeah, you. That criticism or that feedback, that was probably something that maybe they, it was about them, it wasn't about me. And so pray for discernment. I think that is first and foremost because we always, I think that there is always, no matter who you are, there is always something coming at you. And I think we should care what people think, but I think we should care what the right people think, not what everybody thinks. So we don't need to be giving everybody a microphone in our lives. We can give everyone a seat at the table, but that doesn't mean that necessarily everybody gets a microphone. And so for me, when I'm thinking, who do I give a microphone in my life? It's often people who, they just bear fruit, right? Like they, they are bearing fruit in their life. They are peaceful and gentle and loving and faithful.
And their life, maybe their life looks like how I want my life to look. You know, they care for people. They serve the vulnerable. They're Passionate about the church. And they. They communicate to encourage and inspire other people. Like, if I'm looking at someone who's like that, and, you know, they're good parents, they have a strong family, like, okay, that's probably someone I should. I should listen to, because they're bearing fruit, and their life reflects the things that I want my life to reflect.
But again, patterns are discreet. And so I'll. I'm going to tell you a story. So this is actually a story in the book, so a little spoiler alert about. It was a few Christmases ago. I was organizing presents for Christmas with my husband, and there was this really nice leather bag that was probably, like, the nicest gift in the pile. And we were organizing, you know, for both of our families. My husband comes from a big family, and then I come from many families. I have. I get to love many families. And we visited all of them at this time. And so we were organizing who we're gonna give everything to. And there was this woman in my life named Kimberly, who I just. I just wanted her to love me. I wanted her to be, like this mother figure in my life. And so I was like, I'm gonna give this a really nice leather bag to Kimberly. And my husband was like, you've given, like, all the nicest gifts to her. Why don't you give this to your mother figure who had really been in my life since I was, like, in junior high, had taken care of me, have loved me. I made a lot of sacrifices for me, honestly, and just had done so much for me. And he was like, you just really don't give nice gifts to your family. And I was like. I was kind of offended. I was like, excuse me. But then it was, like, all laid out in front of me.
And what I realized, like, when I looked at it was like, I. All my nicest gifts were to the people that I wanted to love me.
And I noticed this, that. It was like a moment I realized, okay, this is a pattern in my life. I pursue the people that reject me, reject the people that pursue me. I love the people that push me away and push the people away that love me. And I'm. I'm doing it because I think that I need to earn love, and I think that I'm not actually worthy of the love that's already been given to me.
And so I think we need to observe just what we're doing and why we're doing it. We need to pause and ask ourselves why. And if we have good people in our lives, who are calling us up and we can discern they're saying what is true and receive it. I think that it's a game changer.
[00:27:29] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. That pause is so important. Like, even after I was called out, probably called up, probably after, same for you. It's not like in that moment, you just go, oh, okay, here's the pattern. And I'm. It took me. I mean, we had the conversation. It took me the next day, another conversation, like, a couple days of processing. Because when it does hurt, right? And I don't know, you probably receive things much better than I do. But my first reaction is to get defensive because I'm like, that hurts. No, like, this is not true. And let me tell you why and let me justify my actions, you know?
But when we're able to do that, when we're able to. And a question I always ask myself, too, is like, does this sound like God? Because even the godly people, people I respect, people who I maybe want my life. My life to even look like what theirs does. They have bad days, right. Sometimes everybody's off.
Like, does this sound like God? And is what they're telling me to do gonna look more like God in my life?
But it does still sting quite often. And so when we're able to do that, Tori, when we can, like, look in the mirror and see the things that we don't want to see, I think sometimes it can be hard not to spiral into how broken we are or then maybe to see all of the patterns and things that need to be, like, quote, unquote, fixed.
What encouragement do you have? Maybe for people who are in that.
In that phase of, like, I see all the brokenness, and it's just a little bit overwhelming.
[00:29:00] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. I think just go back to what I said, you know, about the book cover in the beginning, is that our brokenness isn't something to, like, hate. It isn't something to discard and, you know, see ourselves through the lens of just, like, discouragement or loathing. Our brokenness really can be something that if we mend it, if we heal it, if we're intentional about it, it can be used for something good. You know, I. When I. Again, when I look at all of the things that I have been through, I had a choice. You know, I think God, like, he was like, I'm. He. You know, he. I feel like I just. For people who don't see me, felt like, you know, he just gave this. It was like a gift, you know, in his hands, and he just handed it to me. And I think that he redeems our pain. Like that is the gift and we have the opportunity to open it or not. And when we do open it, like it can re traumatize, it can be painful over and over again. But in my experience, I do feel like it has been worth it to, to open the gift, to receive it and to, you know, use it to help others. Because in that that hasn't just like I'm like, oh, I'm someone who helps others. But it's not just that, like the whole process has healed me, it's healed me deeper over and over and over again when we. So a large part of my life is of my work is sharing my story.
I am a story. I say that I'm a storyteller. And you know, people are like, you're a Bible teacher or you're a speaker or you're an author. And I like, if I could pick any title for myself, it would be Storyteller. Because I believe, you know, Jesus, when we look at the life of Jesus, he was a storyteller. He told lots of stories, he told lots of parables. And he did that to relate to people and to help people understand the wisdom of God. And so much of my life is it's telling my story. And though I get to do that and it does encourage others, what I have experienced is that it has healed me. And I didn't quite know like, why that was happening. And then I know now that when we tell our stories to empathetic listeners, it actually changes the way that our brains see our stories. And so we can go from feeling ashamed and embarrassed about our stories and wanting to hide who we are to when we share our stories with empathetic listeners over and over and over again. And when we experience that acceptance from people or when we experience, you know, people saying, oh, I'm so sorry that you went through that. I see you and I respect you, I honor what you've been through. What it actually does is it changes the way our brains use our stories and ourselves to accepting and to appreciating what we have been through. And so I think again, like, the gift is that yes, you can serve and love others, but the gift is also a deeper healing that that God does within us. I'll say one more thing, just like I'm like, there, there's a story, it's in Mark and Jesus heals this demon possessed man. And after he heals the demon possessed man, it says that the man, he. Well, before he healed him, he had cuts all over his body. And then after he heals him it says that he's, he's perfectly sane and he comes to Jesus. Jesus is getting in the boat, he's peacing out and the man comes to Jesus and he says, can I come with you? And Jesus says, no, go and share what I have done in your life.
And that's so incredible. It's so incredible because in the, in the scriptures it actually says that there were already people who went to the surrounding towns who were already sharing the story. So this was more than about professing what God had done in this man's life. God, Jesus wanted him to go tell his story and they really, because other people, there could have been other people that were telling it, there are people already telling it. But Jesus wants us to share what he has done in our life because it, it doesn't just heal the people that we're telling. It doesn't just bring the people closer to Jesus, it brings us closer to Jesus.
[00:33:28] Speaker A: That's good, that's really good. And especially when you think about too, there are probably more people telling our stories than we realize, you know what I mean? Saying like some of them are telling it accurately, some of them are not, some of them are telling the wrong version, some of them are telling it critically.
Even if everybody else was telling it like the most lovely version. Yeah, it's going to be different coming from us. So I love that idea. Tori, thank you for pointing out the difference in that. I think there's a lot of unlearning and relearning the underlying thing I heard you say of like even who we are and what our story was as we're able to kind of go back through. And one of the really important things I know in the book you have this chart and I think part of going back to our story is writing things down.
And so I love that you have this chart in the back and for people that are just listening, you know, you've got like your thought pattern to break and then the truth to embrace which came from all of your chapters, but then you left empty spaces. And I just think that is so lovely because this is a place where people, even if they're like I don't have a story or I don't know what my story is, just to be able to take these little bite size bits and go, okay, here's a lie that I'm believing and what is a truth? And then they can kind of like meditate on that and ask God to Show them, you know, where that is in their life.
[00:34:49] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Yes. I always say that looking back and seeing and reflecting has been so helpful to me.
When I was a, like, teenager, I started journaling. And on my bookshelf to this very day, I have like stacks of journals from when I was a teenager to being a young adult. And I do feel like it's that looking back and just continue, I don't know what else call it. And looking back and looking back, continually doing that, what it's helped me do is it's helped me see that God was there, you know, even through the pain and the heartache. And it's helped me see again and again who I am more clearly. And so I do think it is a very crucial thing. And that's why, like, when we talk about our brokenness or when we talk about our past, I'm like, don't throw it away. Like, don't discard it. Because looking back on it is still it. It benefits us, it shows us, it teaches us. I think sitting in it can be hurtful. But I think looking back continually and reflecting on it is a very helpful tool that we all should do to better understand who we are and who God says we are.
[00:36:07] Speaker A: Do you have any tips for people that are like, when I look back, all I see is the brokenness.
Any tips on how to like, recognize the growth that they've made or where God was or where the gold, you know, is in their past?
[00:36:21] Speaker B: Yeah. I had a woman come up to me at one of my speaking engagements. And the speaking engagement was, it was to adults. This one that was different. It was two adults and we were talking about healing and trauma. And she came up to me and she was like, I wish that I was as healed as you. And it just like broke my heart. My heart just shattered. And I told her, you cannot compare yourself to me. And I think that's something that we often do is we look back and then we compare our life to maybe a friend's life or someone at our church's life, or we compare our life to something that, you know, someone who had a very different life than ours. And what I say is, you need to look back and you need to say, so now I'm, I'm turning 29 next month. And so I need to look back and I need to say, how would 26 year old Tori react to this? How would 22 year old Tory react to this? How would 17 year old Tory react to. To this? And I think if the answer is more healed than it was. Like if the answer in your now is more healed than a few years before. I think we have to give ourselves credit. We have to give ourselves grace and we have to see how far we've come.
[00:37:36] Speaker A: That's really good. Back to the fruit that you were talking about, right? I think sometimes we're just looking for really specific things. We're looking for like what is the good nugget in here? And we miss. No, it actually is like if you are more mature, if you are able to forgive, if you are, if you have a stronger faith, any of that, that's all the good that's, that's come out of it.
[00:37:57] Speaker B: In the book I addressed this article that was written and the title was something along the lines of like, if you avoid your triggers, then you're unhealed. And that really rubbed me wrong because I just don't think that that is true. We wouldn't put, put an alcoholic in a recovering alcoholic in a bar. We wouldn't put someone who used to struggle with drugs. We wouldn't take them to our local dispensary. So I think the true, the same thing is true for relationships. If someone has struggled with codependency or if someone has struggled with, you know, just having toxic or dysfunctional or unhealthy relationships, we wouldn't say, you know, continue to go back to those people. And so I think that that's just another thing. Thing is that we have to be more thoughtful and just again, more and gentler. Gentler with ourselves as we heal.
I think that there's just so much information in clickbait and bite sized stuff that we, that we consume and then we use that to kind of beat ourselves up. But if we think, if we think about truly how Jesus, you know, reacts to his people, it says that Jesus looked upon them with compassion. And so I think if we can look upon ourselves with compassion as we're healing, it, it allows us to heal deeper because it's not being so critical, it's not tearing ourselves apart. Many of us have had enough of that. Many of us have, you know, experienced that throughout our entire lives. That's part of our brokenness. And so I think if we can look at ourselves just more gentler, the way that Jesus looks upon his people.
Yeah, we heal. We heal gentler. We heal deeper.
[00:39:45] Speaker A: One of the things that you that just, I just remember that you talk about in the book is being like a prodigal.
And so you talked about, you know, we're not going to send an Alcoholic back to a bar. But I think for a lot of people, they maybe have to go back to their family of origin or caretakers. That kind of led to some of the brokenness. And so you kind of propose this idea that as the prodigal, as the person who is trying to change patterns or change systems, maybe being the first one in their family to do things differently, that they can be made out to be the problem.
[00:40:18] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:40:19] Speaker A: Can you speak to that really quick for people that are like, oh, that's me.
[00:40:23] Speaker B: Yeah. Especially think people who have grown up in religious, Christian, evangelical spaces, you know, if they have separated themselves from their family or if they have chosen to do things differently. I have seen a lot of us identify as prodigals, and obviously that the. For anyone who may not know that is coming from the story of the prodigal son in scripture, which a prodigal is defined by someone who, who blows away money, who is wasteful with valuable resources, and usually that is an inheritance prodigal and, you know, parties who just lives a life that is not, not holy. But it's not defined by someone who maybe steps away and distances themselves from their family or creates boundaries so that they can create healthier patterns in their life. And so I especially think, I, I personally think it is a bit spiritually manipulative to label people this way when it's not actually what they're doing. And so in my last chapter, I talked about, I speak over people that if this is who you are, someone who is breaking away from dysfunctional patterns, you're not a prodigal. You are a pattern breaker.
And the people who are maybe looking at you are, they're going to say, oh, they're, they're, they're the issue. Because you are, you're the disruptor. You're the one who's seeing the, the issue and you're the one who's addressing it. And so I say, like, when I think of disruptor, I think that's like a compliment. Like, I want to be a disruptor of injustice. I want to be a disruptor of things that are not God.
But when people say, oh, they're, they're the problem, it's because they are not healed in that, you know, if you're the only one healing or if you're one of you, you're going to be the person blamed. And what I've experienced is I've, it's made me question, I've been like, oh, maybe there is, it goes back to that lie. There's probably something wrong with me. Oh, I probably am the problem. This is like, I am the issue. But when I look at the fuller picture, I see that sometimes when we are the disruptors, when we are doing something different, we are going to be the people who are. Who are blamed for the uncomfortability. Because healing and breaking patterns ultimately is uncomfortable. It's a challenge.
[00:43:02] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. That last chapter is so empowering. I know it's one that people who identify with that will just go back to over and over again when they need encouragement. Cheryl Nemhard. I think we have a mutual friend in her, but she and I had a whole conversation on being a holy disruptor and what it can look like and how it's such a good thing. And by the end of that episode, I was so fired up.
[00:43:25] Speaker B: I love that. So that is the first time anyone had ever called me she was she. So, Cheryl, in the foster care system, okay, disruption is used. So a disruption that is a definition for when a child needs to be moved. When a child they like. As a youth, I could disrupt a home with a bad behavior or with saying, I don't want to be here. And then I moved to my next home. And so disruptor was always this. It was always a bad thing in my childhood. And then Cheryl said, tori, you are a disruptor. And I was like, wait, what? Like, I was like, what? I didn't like it. And then she explained it to me, and I was like, oh, I am a disruptor. I was like, let's go.
[00:44:09] Speaker A: I love that we're gonna flip the definition on this.
We're gonna reclaim this word.
[00:44:15] Speaker B: She really did, like. She didn't even know it, though. She didn't know that that was, like, the definition for, like, the foster care definition. And so it really did, like, redeem the word for me. And I love it.
[00:44:25] Speaker A: I love it. She's awesome.
[00:44:27] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:44:27] Speaker A: All right, Tori, well, last question for you, because the show is called Becoming Church. How can the people that are listening become. Become the church to the people around them?
[00:44:34] Speaker B: I have a whole chapter on it in my book.
So first, by that second, I talk about, you know, much of this book. It is. It is founded in scripture. It is founded in, you know, the word of God. But also, I believe that when we acknowledge psychology, we are honoring, like, who God has created us to be, because ultimately, God created our brains. God created our bodies. He's the one that did all this amazing connective stuff that makes us react the way we do, and that makes us have triggers and flight or fight responses to protect us and to protect the people we love. And so I think when we acknowledge these things, it's really just acknowledging God's creation in the way that he's made us. So the book does have some psychology in it, a fair amount. And so there's an entire chapter on how there are some churches, some spaces that just kind of reject the. The idea of psychology, the idea of mental health. And I actually interviewed some people and asked them, you know, when you were struggling with your mental health, when you were struggling with maybe anxiety or depression, why didn't you go to the church? And there was a handful of people that said the same thing. They said, I did go to the church, but when I went to them, they said it was a spiritual issue and that I just wasn't closer to God. I needed to be closer to God. I needed to pray more, I need to trust God more. And then I felt like the only thing that I had that was stable, which was my faith in God, was just messed up, too. And so that means just everything in my life is messed up. And so I. I think, how can we become the church? We need to. Jesus was a man of suffering, right? And so we need to acknowledge people's suffering in its fullness and not try and push it away with shallow maxims, but embrace it and love them through it and encourage them that Jesus was a man of suffering. And so we too will suffer. And that doesn't mean that we, we are broken. There's a quote from my book that says sometimes our brokenness does not point to a deficit in us, but it points to the disciples we are. And so when we see brokenness in someone else, we need to first see them as a disciple, especially as a someone else who is a Christ follower. We need to first see them as a disciple rather than seeing their deficit.
[00:47:00] Speaker A: That's so beautiful and it gives so much grace for us seeing other people. Because if we are disciples, then by definition, we are learners, we are followers. We are never going to arrive to the place where we know it all, or we have Jesus figured out, and we just have to be continually in process ourselves, and then we can acknowledge that in others. So, so good. Tori, this has been so great. Thank you so much for being here. We are big believers in Jesus and psychology, you know, Jesus and science. Like you said, God made all of this. So let's all work together.
[00:47:33] Speaker B: Yes. Amen.
[00:47:39] Speaker A: Listen, whether you've been called a disruptor or something else, I'm also going to link up my conversation with Cheryl Nemhard so you can reclaim the labels that have been put on you and spoken over you. I know that that conversation will leave you feeling empowered instead of eliminated. I'm also linking up Tori's book Breaking the Patterns that Break you so you can heal from the pain of your past and find real hope that lasts. I hope you'll share this episode with someone that came to mind as you were listening. Thanks for being here. And until next time, keep becoming the church the people around.
