Wendy Snyder: Parenting through Winter Break

[00:00:10] Speaker A: Welcome to Becoming Church, the podcast where we discuss how the message and movement of Jesus is not just about becoming Christians, but about becoming the church. I'm your host, Kristin Machler Young. As part of our mini holiday series this week, we're focusing on that week, when time stands still, or as many of you know it, winter break. Let's set the scene right. Your kids have been home from school or are about to be out soon. They're hyped up on Christmas cookies, gingerbread houses, eggnog, and everything that their grandparents or relatives have snuck into their little bellies. There are still lots of days left until they go back to the routine of school instead of plopping them in front of a week long movie marathon. Parenting coach Wendy Snyder has some tips for us on how to thrive or at least survive the week of Christmas when everyone is home more and off of their routines. Also, we will be discussing the guy in the red suit who's quite busy this time of year. So please grab some headphones or ensure there are no little listening ears nearby for the beginning of this conversation. All right, Wendy, Merry Christmas. Welcome to Becoming Church. [00:01:23] Speaker B: Thank you for having me, Kristen. Merry Christmas. And I'm just so happy to be here. [00:01:27] Speaker A: I'm so excited. You and I, we've been like, I feel like it's been planning for a while. We wanted this to work out and it didn't work out. And then I had an idea to do this like, Christmas miniseries. I was like, Wendy is the perfect person to come and talk to us about this weird timeframe between Christmas and New Year's Eve and what we do with our kids. [00:01:46] Speaker B: Seriously. It is a wild season, right? It is wild. So we're gonna have such a great talk about lots of stuff. [00:01:53] Speaker A: Yes. Well, let's let people get to know you a little bit. I thought it would be fun to do a quick fire like holiday Q and A, so just really fast. Okay. [00:02:02] Speaker B: Okay. [00:02:03] Speaker A: Are you an eggnog, girly? Yes or no? [00:02:06] Speaker B: Yes. I love it. I love it. And I'm very mad that Starbucks, like many coffee shops, don't have it anymore. [00:02:12] Speaker A: What? [00:02:12] Speaker B: It's my favorite. Yeah? [00:02:14] Speaker A: Why? [00:02:15] Speaker B: I don't know. Maybe it's just my little boutique ones here in San Diego, but because I don't go to Starbucks that much, so maybe they still do have it. I need to check. But I love eggnog. I love it. [00:02:23] Speaker A: Yeah, I like it too. You know, you can bring it home. Like we use it sometimes instead of coffee creamer in December. [00:02:29] Speaker B: Yes, that's what I do. I'm not a straight eggnog in a cuff girl. I will say that. [00:02:35] Speaker A: All right, how about elf on the Shelf? Does an elf come to your house? [00:02:38] Speaker B: Oh, heck no. I did finally cave. My kids are older now, Kristen. My kids are older. But I did finally ca. After years of trying to do, like, the more, like, different type of elf, and I finally said, okay, you guys can get this darn elf, but it has no magical powers. Like, it is not watching you, and we'll have fun with it, but please don't believe that this thing is, like, some creepy thing that's watching you and gonna punish you before you. Before your behavior. [00:03:07] Speaker A: We do have one. You gotta remember I was a kindergarten teacher. So, like, anything that's fun about Christmas, I am bringing it into our house. But, yeah, we definitely. Our elf's name is Twinkle, and she does start at the Nativity every single year. Like, that's always the first place that she shows up just to remind us, you know, what Christmas is about. [00:03:26] Speaker B: But how old are your kids again? [00:03:28] Speaker A: 11 and nine. [00:03:29] Speaker B: Okay, cool. [00:03:30] Speaker A: Two girls, 11 and nine. [00:03:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:03:33] Speaker A: All right, so no Elf on the shelf at your house. How about Santa? Does he come visit your house? [00:03:38] Speaker B: When the kids were little, yes, but we told them pretty young. We decided there was, like, finally. It was. I feel like Stella was probably. He was probably 8. And I just decided that I was kind of like, a little done with the lion. And so we found this beautiful letter, and we just told him. And then we told Taryn. Pretty young. So my little guy is 14. My oldest one is 17. And, yeah, there just came a time when I was just like, I'm. I just gotta tell you the truth, kid. It doesn't feel right anymore. So we told him pretty early. But, yes, we did it when they were little. [00:04:13] Speaker A: Okay. All right, we're gonna get. We're gonna get back to Santa here in a minute, but let's finish this Q and A real quick. What is your favorite thing to do with your kids or with your family during the holidays? [00:04:23] Speaker B: You know, I was thinking about this one. I. I think it's. I look most forward to the tree shopping every year, and now that my kids are teens, we don't go out to the mountains anymore and cut our own or anything. It used to be so intricate, right? And, like, big deal. Now we just go across the street to Home Depot. But it's my favorite. I love it. We get fun drinks, a movie together that night. Usually Christmas vacation or, like, daddy's home too, or something silly okay. And the kids, like, you know, bicker about which tree is the best, and it's my favorite. I love it. That's very, very special to me that evening. And just we do it very early. It kicks off the season, and. Yeah, I love it. [00:05:05] Speaker A: Are you a before or an after Thanksgiving Christmas tree decorator now or before? [00:05:10] Speaker B: So we've been traveling so much for. My daughter is pursuing a D1 beach volleyball scholarship right now, and we've just been traveling so much this year. We did it before, and it was fantastic. I loved it. But normally it's the day after for us, that same. [00:05:24] Speaker A: We are normally the day after. But this year I was like, you know what? We need a little extra Christmas magic and holiday spirit. So I also put mine up. Now ours came out of a box, so we can put it up whenever we want. [00:05:35] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:05:36] Speaker A: Also did ours before Thanksgiving. All right, well, you just mentioned a couple, but is there, like, a favorite? You know, this is your the Snyder family, like, family Christmas movie that you guys have to watch every year. [00:05:49] Speaker B: Well, for me, it's Christmas vacation. I usually watch it, like, four or five times with the kids. The kids, like, hate it now, so they're like, oh, mom, no, we can't watch that one. So I've kind of been ixnate on that. We did Elf this year. That's always a good one. We still crack up every single time we watch it, you know? And when you have teenagers, it's like, when you have them intrigued and cracking up, you're like, this is great. And the Daddy's Home, too, is a good one. I have lots of them. Yeah. Both of the Daddy's Home is, like, ridiculously funny, you know, Will Ferrell again. And I think those, I would say, are our two favorites. [00:06:26] Speaker A: Okay, I'll have to check those out. What's crazy about Elf is I remember watching it in the movie theater when it came out. I think I was in college, and I'm like, so then when I see things about, oh, it's been out 20 years or whatever, I'm like, that is impossible. [00:06:41] Speaker B: I know. [00:06:41] Speaker A: It's like, that was, like, last year. [00:06:44] Speaker B: Like, yeah, it's timeless. It's so. It's aged so well. [00:06:49] Speaker A: So well. So funny. Yeah. All right, well, I do want to get back to talking about Santa for a second because I know that there are lots of families that either. Do they make the choice, Right. Some families choose to do Santa and Jesus. Some families choose not to do Santa because they want to focus on Jesus. I'm guessing there are probably also people listening that are still trying to figure out how they want to manage it. Like, their kids are young enough that they're still wrestling through. How did your family. When you were still introducing Santa, how did you navigate having Jesus and Santa kind of coexist? [00:07:26] Speaker B: Yeah, you know, I just. I don't remember it being. When the kids were little. It wasn't like a pr. I think maybe it just wasn't on my radar that it was a problem because you know how your faith evolves. Right. Like, and earlier, when my kids were little, like, I just think it didn't register to me that it was like. It was. It was not. They couldn't be combined. You know? Like, it just. Maybe I wasn't that mature yet in my faith. And so we just. We did it. We had fun with it, but we never. I feel like we never just bought into the whole, like, you know, obviously, because of what I do. Right. Like, the side of it that's like, he's watching you. He's. He's. Is it the good or the naughty list? That kind of stuff was just never, like. It was so simple for us. It wasn't. We weren't really, like, so expansive on the Santa story, but we were very expansive on this, the Jesus story. Right. So it was, like, cool, Santa's gonna come. And, you know, we'd. All the kids would get so excited to leave the cookies, and as parents, we'd, like, leave the footprints of the reindeer and, like, silly stuff like that. But it just wasn't. I don't know. I just don't remember it being that deep for us as far as, like, Santa, all the things. But on the Jesus side, of course, that was very immersive, and that was always a big part of the story, and that was the real reason. Right. And I think we also just embrace the St. Nicholas side of the. Of Santa, you know, and just. That's. That is. That is beautiful. Right? So, yeah, it just. It never felt like a problem for us, and we were able to do both. And then again, one day, I just remember being like, oh, my gosh, I've been lying. Like, our whole culture sets up our children, their first, like, 10 years of life as, like, a full lie. [00:09:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:09:09] Speaker B: Like, what are we doing? And that's when I was like, I'm ready to tell her. You know, let's just do this. And Terry was like, yeah, let's do this. So I remember I took her to a little bookstore right now nearby and found this beautiful letter that really helped and just had the discussion with her. [00:09:23] Speaker A: And do you remember, Was it from, like. [00:09:26] Speaker B: I looked it up, actually. [00:09:28] Speaker A: Okay. [00:09:28] Speaker B: Yeah, I looked it up. In case your readers want to find it. Her name was Martha Brockenbrough, and the letter is called the. Or you can Google the truth about Santa. One mother's beautiful letter to her daughter, and it was really helpful. It was like. It was just like a little girl that was like, hey, are you Santa? And the mom was like. She wrote it in a letter, but she was like, you know what? I'm not Santa, but I am. Because we all basically contribute to this beautiful system of caring for each other and bringing joy and bringing gifts, and it doesn't tie in Jesus. But if I remember right, when I introduced her to the letter and we talked about it, well, of course we overlap Jesus in there. And so it was just a really great way to segue into, like, he. There's no Santa. I've been lying to you for a decade. But, like, you know, part of you is like, but I've been lying for a good reason. It's like this cultural. This cultural thing is like, we, you know, so it's kind of like, was a great middle road. Yeah. [00:10:34] Speaker A: I mean, we. [00:10:34] Speaker B: We. [00:10:35] Speaker A: Santa comes to our house. We do both. And it's never. Like you said, it's never been a problem for our family either. My oldest helps me now because she. She just asked one year. That child's too smart for her own good. I think she's known since she was, like, 2, and she just didn't want it. She just wanted to play along. And I do think that's where my youngest is now, too. I think she maybe has some suspicions, but she really just likes to play along, I think. But, yeah, for us, we talk more about, you know, when we watch movies and things happen on movies or people can do things on the screen that you're like, how does that happen? We've talked about, like, movie magic before and that kind of thing. So we just have always kind of connected it to, you know, Christmas magic. And. And there's Christmas magic, and it's fun to kind of make magic and memories for other people, and I love that. [00:11:25] Speaker B: Yes. Yes. It's. [00:11:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:11:27] Speaker B: That's beautiful, Kristen. [00:11:28] Speaker A: Yeah. I just. I don't think, you know, I think for everybody listening, it'll be their own, you know, for them to decide for their own family and their own kids. But I definitely. I think sometimes within the church, we can get, like, shamey one way or the other. [00:11:42] Speaker B: Yes. [00:11:43] Speaker A: Like, we just don't need to do that. Like, let people live, you know? [00:11:47] Speaker B: Yeah. Halloween, Christmas. Like, I remember watching like Carlos Whitaker respond to someone saying, like, do you celebrate Halloween? Like, do you let your kids celebrate? And don't you think that's evil? And he was like, well, let me tell you what's actually evil and XYZ in the world and the behavior of human beings on this earth right now in blah, blah, blah. It was beautiful. It's like, yeah, these are these silly little traditions, you know, I just, yeah, I think they're fun. And you can do both. You can have both. [00:12:20] Speaker A: Yeah, you totally can. Well, Wendy, before we get into some more practical things that you can help us with, will you give people just an introduction to what you do as a parenting coach? [00:12:34] Speaker B: Yes, I'd love to. So hello to all of Kristen's listeners. What an honor to be here. I am Wendy positive parenting educator and family life coach and the founder of an organization called Fresh Start Family, host of a podcast called the Fresh Start Family Show. And I spend my days helping parents build out a firm and kind parenting toolkit that is connection based, relationship based. I teach parents how to escape a punishment mindset and embrace a compassionate discipline. One, I teach parents how to change from reactive tendencies that a lot of parents have, especially if you were raised in the church with autocratic, a lot of times toxic and traumatic ways, especially when it comes to discipline. A lot of parents come out of that with very reactive tendencies to their kids. That was my story when I found this work and Stella was three. She's now 17. And so to become more responsive, to learn how to heal and regulate your own nervous system is a big part of our work. There's nothing better than feeling like you can be confident and calm and firm and kind and connected with your kids. And then we work a ton with strong willed kids, meaning their parents because, you know, been doing this for about seven years now. We have students all over the world and we do a lot of free workshops every year. So we help tens and thousands of people. And it's definitely the parents of the strong willed kids who are on their knees the most because you just don't really get, you know, there's just nothing like it. You can get through parenthood and never do any parent education or coaching. If you have a more mellow kid, right? Like, and I do, I have one that that's more mellow and ones that that's got this beautiful spitfire about her. But most of the parents who have a strong willed child, if without the support, it's going to be a long, rocky, strenuous road. And they're just beautiful humans. They're such beautiful humans. They are our next generation of leaders. They are the cycle breakers of the world. They are the ones who cause us to oftentimes do the most healing within ourselves. I think God uses them as angels in my opinion. So we have a lot of families who have strong willed kids. And that is my story is Stello came into this world with a beautiful strong will. So I thought I was going to lose my mind when she was three. And then I found this work, started to learn a new way. We really did a 180 in our parenting walk. We were kind of doing the classics and everyone and their uncle was handing us so called Christian books that would just taught us how to, you know, hit Stella and yeah like, you know, break her will and make sure she knew who was boss and all the things and it just never felt right. So thank God we got introduced to a new way and it's taken quite some time to unlearn and learn. But here we are 14 years in and so once I was doing this for a while and we started to see such radical results in our own home, that's when I decided to become certified both as a parenting educator and a life coach. So we do a lot of deeper work within our community too because you know, we all know it's easier said than done. If you're like, I'm going to stop yelling. It took me eight years to stop yelling. It took me like five, six maybe to stop grabbing wrists so tight. So there's a lot of under work and that comes with it. And so that life coaching side of for start family I think is really beautiful and just lights me up almost the most. [00:16:07] Speaker A: Well, that's really honest. Thank you for sharing that. I think that it really gives people hope that if they find themselves parenting in a way that they no longer enjoy or like you said, doesn't feel right or they're just not getting the results that maybe they've been promised. Like I think it gives them a lot of hope that no matter how old their kids are or how long they've been parenting or how short they've been parenting, you know that there, there is another way that can be learned. [00:16:34] Speaker B: Yes, there's always a way. It just takes commitment and trusting that your brain is plastic. Right. That it can change, it can undo limiting beliefs, it can become more empowered and all the things. Yeah. [00:16:51] Speaker A: Well, you mentioned being responsive. I want to know what Is the difference for somebody who maybe they've never heard the term gentle parenting, maybe they always are just kind of following the books that you've been given and they didn't know that there was another way. I think a really great place to start is just the difference between responding and reacting. Can you explain the difference of those? [00:17:13] Speaker B: Absolutely. Well, a lot of it just comes down to feeling safe in the messes. And so the more that I, you know, every year that goes by as a teacher, I realize that so much of the problems that lies within parents who are reactive is within the nervous system. And there is a lack of safety, There is a strong feeling of fear when messes, mistakes, imperfections happen within children, all of life really, but especially within children, because there's when. When you were raised with like danger being present, when there was a mistake that was made or misbehavior or whatever it may be, there really what like the nervous system remembers that. And so if you were hit, yelled at, shamed, exiled, you know, any of that kind of stuff, manipulated, you remember that it is dangerous. And so then you grow up to have kids, and then all of a sudden you find yourself with this very fast reactive behavior. And for many of my students, that is the kind of bigger, more like you're getting bigger, you might get more aggressive, you might get louder. It's a bit of like, I'm gonna make this kid submit, right? So it's like yelling. For me, it was yelling, grabbing, wrist, shaming. So like in my home growing up, shame on you. Was the way my mom grew up, very Irish Catholic. And it was like, still to this day, she's still will yell at the dog. Shame on you. And I'm like, mom, it's a dog. The dog has no idea what shame is. But like, it was purposely put on me. And holy smokes, has it taken quite some time to unravel? But it's, it's very. It'll be like shaming statements like that. And it happens so fast that people often don't even. Like, there's no space between the stimulus and the response. [00:19:12] Speaker A: Right. [00:19:13] Speaker B: And so other people, like, I'd say the more the minority of my clients, they move to like the people. Pleasing, permissive, withdrawing, shutting down. Right? So that's probably like 10, 15% of my students. And then the majority are like, more of that puff up, fix it fast. Control, overpower, make that kid comply. Because if you don't, you're going to get judged, you're doing a bad job. Fear of failing, fear of like catastrophizing. This kid's going to grow up to be a maniac, all that kind of stuff. [00:19:49] Speaker A: And so we always fast forward. It's like this child has a pacifier and really won't give it up. So now all of a sudden it's like we see them as adults and they don't have teeth or like, you know, this kid is prone to whatever behavior as a two and a half year old. And so we do, we like fast forward to the end of their lives going, they're never going to be able to be in a relationship with anyone. Like they're toddlers. [00:20:12] Speaker B: I know. And we do that. And really, again, once we start to really unravel things, we also fast forward to the we're failing. That's like really what's underneath a lot of it. When people react, they think it's because there's, you know, they're scared the kid's gonna have the bad teeth or never be able to make friends when they're older because they're so bossy or whatever. But really, it's like deep down it's often, I'm failing, I'm the worst mother. Like a good mom would not have a kid that's out of control. And so that is kind of usually the biggest driver of the reactivity. And so once you learn to signal safety to your body, it is safe to have imperfect kids. It is safe to be an imperfect mother and father. And it is safe to be in this parenting game for long term results, not instant obedience. And so that's a big unravel for a lot of people who grow, grew up with instant obedience. You know, you, you obey fast with a happy heart. It just really sticks in people's nervous systems. And so I just find such inspiration for the people who step up and decide that they're gonna unlearn it. And it just takes a lot, a lot of patience and grace and compassion with yourself. Because for many, there's a lot of mistakes made along the road. It's not like you just wake up one day and you're like, I'm so sick of yelling and aggressively putting my kids into timeout or locking them in their rooms, whatever. And so tomorrow I'm just going to do it differently. It's just not the way it goes. Right. You know, so you just. It takes courage to be like, I've this. Whether it's a small still voice, it's like, it's time to heal, it's time to change, or a blaring like, oh, my gosh, this is rock bottom. Like, a lot of people just have rock bottom. It's just a beautiful commitment when someone's like, okay, it's time to do it different, and I'm going to learn how to do this because there's got to be a better way. That's what a lot of people end up thinking, right? Like, this is not what I signed up for. There's got to be a better way. [00:22:14] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I think it's so fascinating that, you know, a lot of what you talked about, you talked about how, like, our fear and all of these things come from the way that we were parented, yet we often then still parent the way we were parented, even if we didn't enjoy it, even if we felt like it was shaming or gave us negative experiences. Because I think for a lot of people, like you said, we either just fall into it or have not been taught that there is another way. So I love that enlightening moment of. And if you're the first one in your family, man, it is the hardest. It is the hardest to change anything that's been done for years or generations, especially if you still have family around who doesn't understand or agree with a different way. [00:22:59] Speaker B: Yeah. There's so many layers, right? There's like, not wanting to insult your parents. Right. Like, there's so, so many of us who are like, thank you, thank you. You know, like, had a. Had a great childhood. Thank you so much. There's so many beautiful things that were done. Awesome for many people. And so it takes mentorship to understand how you and, like, look at the way you were raised and decide I'm going to do A, B and C differently and still honor my parents that they did that I want to take with me, you know, like, for me and my, like, my. My dad was so amazing at teaching me, like, the importance of physical exercise and taking care of my body. And it's like, I think of it about it often. I'm like, oh, my God, thank you, dad. Like, that has really stuck with me. And there's a crap ton of other stuff that I'm like, that's not going to be passed down in my home. Right. But it took me years to figure that out. Like, I didn't like those first, especially three years of life. I just didn't quite realize. Oh, because it didn't come out until I was in the mud, so to speak. Right. It's like a tea bag, you know, it's like, you don't really know what flavor it is until you dip it in boiling water. [00:24:12] Speaker A: Okay. [00:24:12] Speaker B: And, and that, that's what happens to so many people. They, you know, we think, oh, we grew up with that. We're fine, it's not a big deal. And then you get dipped in the boiling water and you're like, whoa, this is not working. This kid is freaking out. I'm going to bed. Feeling guilty at night, like, this has got it. And then you start to do some learning. You read some books, you start listening to some podcasts, get a mentor. And then you realize there's this whole new world of like, how to do it differently that you get to step into that's really exciting for people when they find this world. Because it's just many of us didn't know, we just didn't know that there was a different way. And even if there was, and like, we would, we didn't know how. You know, a lot of people, they know that they want to do it differently, but the how to is so overwhelming that they just never do. [00:25:01] Speaker A: Yeah. And it is a process. So what do we do, Wendy, if we are trying to unlearn and relearn and we're trying to parent differently or better, but we do inevitably in our humanity react poorly, you know, if we yell or we say something, shaming on accident, how can we fix it? [00:25:21] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, actually, this is like one of my favorite parts of we, we call our work powerful parenting. But like as you mentioned, some people call it gentle, some people call it conscious. Right. In our world, it's positive, it's powerful. But one of my, it's one of my favorite things. Because learning to make amends and take responsibility for your mistakes without shame is one of the coolest parts of being a human. And it is the only way to teach another human being how to do that. And so as time goes on, you, you just start to learn that taking responsibility after you've behaved in a way that models for your child exactly how you don't want them to behave, it doesn't make you weak, it doesn't make you permissive. It actually gives you true power. Especially if you are raising a strong willed child. Because these kids are allergic to hypocrisy. They come out of their skin, they have such layer, so highly conscientious that if they see someone behaving in a way that then turns around and tells them don't behave that way, their, their unfairness, their. Their justice button goes off so hard that the misbehavior comes on Strong. They resist, like, all these things. So once you start to realize, oh, if I really want my kid to respond to their brother when, you know, things aren't going their way or they're having an argument, instead of smack them or intimidate or threaten them, I need to learn how to do that. And so. And a lot of that, yes, you learn, and then you're going to make mistakes. Then you learn, then you're going to make mistakes. So that part of, like, coming to your kid and it's actually part of the compassionate discipline model is the making amends redos. Those are, you know, we teach, like, how to do makeups for your kids and. And then you teach them how to do makeups for their siblings, for their classmates, for their teacher when they talked out of order or have been really disruptive in class lately. But modeling that first and just coming to them and being like, hey, I want you to know the real reason why I yelled at you. You know, like, I remember, Taryn, my little guy was. He was little, and he was in the bath one day, and I was just learning these concepts, but I just remember I used to get so angry because the kids always wanted to pour, like, the soap out because they love the bubbles, right? They're experiential. And I came in one day and he had poured out the brand new big container of Burt's Bees organic bubble bath out. And he was. I looked at him, he was so happy. There's all these bubbles. And I just freaked out. I yelled so hard at him. That was one of those moments, if anyone knows what I'm talking about, you'll know where you scream so loud at your kid in their face that they just immediately start crying. And I was like, oh, my gosh. And I was still shaking mad, and I went to my room, shut my door, cried, and then had just learned the concept of makeup. So I was able to come back and I said to him, I'm like, whoa, that was not cool. I am so sorry that I did that, Taryn. I'm like, I am learning. I want you to know that I am learning what's going on for me. And, like, just want you to know that was not about you. You made a mistake. And we'll get some jobs so you can make this money up to buy this $20 organic bubble bath or whatever it is. But I was like, that was not about you, and you did not deserve that. And he just looked straight at me. He's my kid who was raised with this. He was raised into this work. Stella had to do the switcheroo at three. She got kind of not so great stuff her first few years, but Taryn was raised with it. And he looks right at me and he was like, mama, it's okay. Everybody makes mistakes. [00:29:13] Speaker A: Bless him. [00:29:14] Speaker B: And I was like, okay, I'm doing something right. I'm doing something right. Because obviously this little four year old had learned that mistakes are just opportunities to learn. They don't make you bad. They don't put you on the stupid naughty list. They don't make you damage goods. They don't, they don't mean anything. They're just mistakes. And when you handle mistakes with compassion and you take responsibility, with humility and say, I'm going to do this differently tomorrow and I still may mess up, but I'm going to keep getting the support that I need so I can handle this conflict with dignity and grace and with integrity in the way that you deserve to be talked to. They soak it up. And then all of a sudden you see them behaving that way in the world. And so now that Stella is 17, it is just so cool to see this spicy as heck kid who is a spitfire to her core. She really is the lead in her friendship groups, even in her highly competitive beach volleyball world, when it comes to peaceful conflict resolution, when it comes to humility, when it comes to taking responsibility for her part in conflict. And I just see it play out so often with her friendships, which, you know, everyone knows teenage girls are pretty, pretty gnarly. And so it's been really cool to see her develop that skillset in life that only comes from being taught, from being modeled that same thing. So taking responsibility for mistakes, humbly coming to the table and then makeups is when you do an act for a child that repairs the relationship instead of just saying, hey, hey, dude, I'm sorry. It's like, like, hey, I drew you a picture. I want to take you out for a special night walk to see the moon tonight, let you stay up 20 minutes late. I want to give you foot rubs, extra five minutes of back scratches. I want to do something to go out of my way to let you know that our relationship is important and that I just, I'm doing something extra to take care of it because, you know, I want to make amends here. [00:31:23] Speaker A: Okay. [00:31:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:24] Speaker A: So if it's a really big. I know some parents are like, every ice cream, every time I yell, but no, really, just for the big ones, then you make amends. [00:31:33] Speaker B: You get to do whatever you want. Yeah, do whatever you want. For us, it's like, it was back rubs and back scratches a lot with Stella. Me too. Mine was, like, lavender foot rubs and hugs. That's my big thing is, like, when somebody makes a mistake with me, I'm like, they know. I just really love, like, a long hug. That's all I want. [00:31:51] Speaker A: Yeah. That's my youngest, too. Like, she just. I can tell when there's been conflict either on my end or. Or on hers. She just. It's like, she's always. She just comes in for every five seconds. She's just right there around my waist. [00:32:04] Speaker B: Oh, I love it. And all who. Humans are different, right? Like, Stella is not a hugger. She does it as a makeup for me, and she will. But she's not. She's not looking for a hug as a makeup. [00:32:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:16] Speaker B: You know what I mean? So everyone gets to be different. And so when you learn as a parent that you get to do what your child loves, when you do a makeup for them, that's the relationship part that strengthens it. Right. Because not every kid is going to love even ice cream. Right. Or flowers being picked for them. [00:32:34] Speaker A: Right. All right, well, let's get into practicals. I know a lot of parents listening are their kids are home on winter break or they're about to be on winter break. It's that weird time right. Between, like, Christmas and New Year's Eve. So I want to talk through some various tensions that people might be getting ready to face so that you can help us to go into them in a little better way. I think one of the things that we see is there's no structure. [00:33:03] Speaker B: Right. [00:33:03] Speaker A: We often. We don't have the structure of school or the school system. And so parents are trying to figure out, like, how much do we reinforce versus how much do we let go of. Of structure and organization? What are your thoughts on that? [00:33:16] Speaker B: Yeah, well, you know, structure, I would say my. My gut there is to, like, relax, let go, stay up, let them stay up late. Like, have, you know, have some treats, whatever. My big thing, my super firm side comes out with the screens. [00:33:33] Speaker A: Okay. [00:33:33] Speaker B: So that is like my kind of, like, I see kids, like, self destruct pretty easily once there is an enormous amount of screens. And once the rules go out the door or the boundaries go out the door on that, I can see the behavior gets pretty nasty, like, pretty gnarly easily. As opposed to sugar. I'm like, okay, sugar, maybe. But the screens is really where as an educator, I see it. Like, I was just in an airport you know, quite. I was just came back from a Hawaii trip and I just saw it all over the place like, yes, use the screens for travel. You know, no shame there for sure. But you can see some of the kids that start to melt down and then the parents become very permissive. It's just happened numerous times that I, I watched it where I'm like, yikes, that is gonna make the holiday more hard. Or like if you're someone that. Yeah. And ask me questions about that. But I think flexibility. But yet have the courage to be really firm about the boundaries around the phones and the devices and the iPads and just get your kids out as much as possible. Like, I'm not as worried about the schedule and the bedtime as. I mean, I like a good bedtime. Right. [00:34:51] Speaker A: For sure. [00:34:52] Speaker B: But I'm more like get them outside and off the screens. Because the biggest thing we're facing in our culture right now is the temptation and they're going to push for it because it is the comfort. Dopamine. Right now. Yeah. And they're there. Right. So like if they have a gaming console, if they have the iPad. And you know, sometimes we just, we need to get wrapping done or so we need. But to be that firm, kind parent, we teach a four step process to setting limits and sticking to them. We call it our firm and kind parenting blueprint. If you can move through that with confidence of like, I know. And you gotta get out, you get out the door. Out the door. Nope. No. If you have to say no 17 times to another hour on the iPad, do it like be confident in that. And you could do that with connection. You don't have to. Like most parents who aren't in this work yet, or many parents, I should say, they move to like the threats, you know, or push back one more time and you won't get the iPad for the rest of the. Like, we're not trying to do that at all. Like that's very different than sticking to firm limits. Yeah. We bring in empathy, we bring in agreements ahead of time, we offer choices. But it is firm boundaries around those screens that will help everybody be more healthy in the holiday season. [00:36:08] Speaker A: Yeah. Threats is something that we. I'm laughing. It was not funny. But that was something that I know with my. Well, probably with both of them. But yeah, you find yourself in this, like if you do that again and I've done this myself, if you do that again, you're going to lose screens for the rest of the day and then they do it again and then you have to escalate. Okay, well, if you do it again, you lose all of your screens for tomorrow. And then they keep at it. And it's like I had to learn about my own children who have since been diagnosed with generalized anxiety. And I now know how their brains work and how they get stuck in this spiral where in the moment they literally cannot stop the behavior or the thoughts or whatever. Like they're stuck. And we have figured out different ways to kind of, of calm them down before we try to quote, unquote, parent them. But yeah, that was something we, my husband and I both got stuck in from time to time. Well, it's like, well, now we've just given every possible consequence that we can think of and guess what? It didn't change the behavior. But now we're punishing ourselves because we've taken away all the things. We've taken away toys, we've threatened early bedtime. And so now we have to actually follow through with all of the things that we said, you know? [00:37:26] Speaker B: Yes. Which leads a lot of parents to empty threats. [00:37:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:29] Speaker B: So so many parents like, and, and what you're talking about is so common. I mean it is just the way, let's just be honest, before people get into this type of work, that is just the way that is common parenting. Everything is a threat. And these days everything is a threat. With technology it's just like, welcome to parenthood. And, and it's crazy because this like, this work is still kind of the minority of people are learning about it. So you are the norm when you do that. So you're going to fit right into the play date or the family gathering. Like everyone's giving threats. Right. And it's just like everything is around technology. And so basically, you know, it's just the nervous systems are heightened at all times because there's a fear of losing something. And the thing is that I want everyone to understand is we have very simple replacements for threats. It's called sequencing. It's like, it's like first we do this, then we do that, and then we teach parents how to implement that. And it's, it's just a. Based around firm boundaries. It's, it's not like, you know, it's just very different than threats. It's a different tone, but it's a similar rollout essentially. And then when it comes to the compassionate discipline side, we teach parents how to make consequences, so to speak, which, which always comes last because self calming and natural consequences come first. And we have a whole free workshop on Discipline, if anyone's interested, But. But the logical consequences for them to actually create the success that you want with the changed behavior and then actually create unity and, like, bring you closer to your child. We do. We practice the 4R. So it's got to be related. It's got to teach responsibility, it's got to be respectful, and it's got to be reasonable. And the related part is where most parents fly off the handle because everything is the screen time, threat, right? And. And it's. And it's really. What's really hard about it is because, like, it's almost common knowledge, because I think most of us have it. We have an addiction to the screens. Like, you know, especially if you're an entrepreneur, It's. It is wild how fast that dopamine addiction happens. And so we know that our children have similar. Like. And so because when you're doing the classic punishment model, you're going for what's going to hurt the most. That is like, it's like, baked into us. We know it's going to sting so bad if you lose that iPad, and that's why we do it. And so to learn a different way where it's like we. It's like, where do we get the notion that in order to make our children behave better, we first must make them feel worse? And so we get to, like, really look at that and be like, wow, that's wild. And we don't have to live like that anymore. We can actually make our children feel better about themselves, feel more empowered, understand how screens affect their body, and then create learning opportunities, which is all what logical consequences are that actually teach the life skill that's missing versus just create the sting that if you don't listen, you're going to. So consequences are good. They just got to be related, respectful, reasonable, and teach responsibility. Yeah. [00:40:37] Speaker A: And there's a difference between. Which my girls have. Are learning. There's a difference between a natural consequence and a punishment. My daughter did not. My oldest did not do her homework last week, actually, for the last two weeks. And I was completely unaware until her teacher messaged me, and she had all the reasons why she couldn't get to it and whatever. And. And, you know, she's in a show this weekend, and she had extra rehearsals and whatever. And so generally on Friday, like, our rule of thumb is on Friday after school, you can come home and unpack your bag and you can do whatever you want. Like, that is our, like, free for all. Come, you know, turn the TVs on, get on Your Nintendo Switch. Like I don't care. Yeah, Friday afternoon after school. So she had to do homework makeup on Friday. And I said, you don't have to do all of it, but we're going to set a time limit and throughout the weekend you're going to have to take a break from the things that you want to do to complete the homework that you did not get done when it was expected. And she was like, well, this feels like a punishment. And I had to explain like, I get that a punishment will have to be enforced if this continues to happen in order to try to like help you understand that this is not okay, you know, making this choice over and over. But this is just a natural consequence. You did not get done what needed to be done. So now we have to find other times to get that homework done so you can get it turned in well. [00:41:57] Speaker B: And let me, let me just coach you a little bit on that one so you can see how it rolls out in our world. So that's, it's a, that's a little bit of a mix between a natural and illogical. So a natural would be if the teacher just handled business. So that's like light. We say life does the teaching, you as the parent don't really even step in. And so the natural consequence happened when that teacher said to her, okay, now you've got to make it up. Like that was, it's, and it's a mix between natural and logical because of course the teacher's coming in. But I really look at logical consequences as when you step in and do something. Whereas natural always works the best because when you allow your child to fail and make a mistake and then let other people and the world or the stubbed toe or the being cold at the Christmas parade when it does the teaching, you will see actually higher levels of success if you don't get in the way. If you don't come in with a relationship, ding, like jab, like, oh, you should have, you should have listened. Now you don't get to go out to play tonight. Like that's what actually intervenes with natural consequences. And if people have kids who aren't learning from them, it's often because the parent is like jacking it up. Okay, so then enter logical consequences. And that's where you would come in and you would be like, hey, so tonight like normally you come home and do the switch. So instead because we're doing, we're going for related, reasonable, respectful and teachers responsibility, I'm not okay with the switch being turned on. Until we. We get it. We get it implemented for, like, you know, 30 minutes. Let's just pound it out. Do you want to do it alone? Do you want to do it together? Do you want to put music on? Do you want. But you're implementing a logical consequence there. And then I would encourage you to think, Kristen, that you actually never have to punish your children. [00:43:45] Speaker A: Okay. Okay. [00:43:47] Speaker B: You really don't. You know, I've been doing it for 14 years. It's not necessary. Punishment is rooted in retribution and the past and making a child pay for their mistake. Discipline is rooted in the future. It's rooted in teaching. It's rooted in firm kindness and boundaries and knowing that you can trust in the humanity of your child and she will learn. It might take some patience. It might take some. And we have so many different logical consequences that you can use to teach the life skill. Right. Like we teach you. You could create charts with her, or you could create IM statements. You could do role plays, redos. There's. There's so much you could do to support her in the life skill she needs that doesn't involve punishment, which is usually just around making a child feel bad about what they've done. And it's just. Just, in my opinion, not effective long term. So what I think. What I think you might be alluding to, there is. There might be a different logical consequence. But let's hope that this one. Let's see if this one teaches the life skill and this helps you learn what you need to learn. And if not, I'll still be there to teach you. I'm not going anywhere. I'll be your mom next week. And we just might need to try a different one. But there's a big bag of logical consequences that is going to bring you closer and not create any division or bitterness between you and your daughter. Whereas punishment will. As soon as you ground that kid, she'll start resenting you. Sure. [00:45:20] Speaker A: I'm removing that word from my vocabulary, like, in this actual moment. And here I am. I will. Just another confession. I'm like, oh, we almost never have to punish our kids. It must be because we have such good kids. We're such good parents. No, I think it's because we probably are letting natural consequences teach them, you know, and it's actually working. So I love that. [00:45:42] Speaker B: Yeah. And just try on a different word for a while and see how it feels. You know, just try on, like, you know, what level of discipline or what different types of discipline versus and see if that feels a little bit better. In your body too, than we have. Do we have to punish or not? [00:45:56] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, another thing, Wendy, that I think parents will find during this weird winter break time when their kids are home is extra stimulation. And sometimes they know a immediately when their kid is overstimulated or dysregulated. And sometimes it's hard for them to tell are there specific signs or things that they can look for that would alert the parents? Like, hey, this kid, like, needs to have a minute. [00:46:20] Speaker B: Yeah, good question. So, I mean, I think it's kind of the same for all of us humans. And if there's like a snappiness or irritability. Right. That often is a sign of, like, wow, we've got way too much going on here. And for me, the antidote is always going to be nature. Like, nature, nature, nature. And no matter where you live, I still need to have her on a guest on the podcast. But I think there's. There's an author. I think she might have a podcast too. But, like, There are no Bad Weather Days, I think is her book. [00:46:56] Speaker A: Okay. [00:46:56] Speaker B: And it just, it's around, like, the concept of thrift if you need to. But, like, have so much gear for your kids, whether it's rain gear or snow gear, that they really can go outside. All of you guys can go outside whenever, like, as much as possible. Because a lot of people think because they live in colder climates, they can't get their kids outside. But you can still push your kids out the door with the proper gear on. But. Or you just take a trip as a family come Saturday morning after it's been like crazy holiday dinners and stuff. You purposely choose. Instead of going to, like, the park that has, like the metal slides and stuff, you purposely choose to go into nature, into the. Hike into the woods where they can find trees to climb, you know, get their hands in the dirt or on the bark. Like, that's just like God's natural soothing system. Is nature as an antidote to the over scheduling the loud parties. Yeah. The nutrition that goes down the drain once we bring in processed food and sugar. So that's kind of something good to keep in mind. [00:48:08] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah, that's good. Go touch grass. Right? Listen to what they're saying now. Go touch grass. [00:48:14] Speaker B: Yes, it's true. And it's harder if you're in a cold weather, but you can do it. Like, there's, there's different ways to do it. [00:48:19] Speaker A: So what about the extra affection? And I know different kids. Some of the kids will relish in this. Some of the Kids will not. I know a lot of times with relatives, it's like, oh, well, I haven't seen this kid, but I know this kid. But the kid does not remember that, you know, great aunt or whoever. And I know there's often a lot of expectation of, okay, well, give hugs or let this person kiss you on the cheek or whatever. What can kids say? Like, how can we equip our kids to have control or autonomy over their own bodies without offending the relative relatives that, you know, are just trying to be loving to them? [00:48:55] Speaker B: Yes. Well, I think clarity is kindness. So if you're going somewhere that there's any way to, like, email people in advance and just be like, hey, we're so excited. What can we bring? Or text, what can we bring? And then just a heads up, we just. We don't do forced hugs anymore. And I know that's new. It's very our generation. But just don't be offended if Sally, like, choosing not to give you a hug, because we're just. We're really, like, stoked to be teaching her about, like, you know, to body autonomy and all that kind of stuff. So just to let them know in advance, sometimes we'll give you that little extra layer of, you know, of preparation for the person. And then I. I always like to teach my kids through modeling and personal experience. So, like, I have been sharing with my kids how. And especially, like, after the pandemic and stuff. Like, I find it so interesting that it's a cultural norm that we have to shake hands. And I am kind of like, as I'm, like, in my 40s now, I'm like, I don't want to freaking shake hands all the time. Like, I'll be eating, and I'll be at, like, a Christmas party, and someone be like, nice to meet you, and I'll just. I will purposely, like, knuckle them. [00:50:05] Speaker A: Okay. [00:50:06] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, instead. And sometimes my kids. My kids are there, and I'll make sure I let them know, like, hey, you know, you could just remember, like, you had to choose what you. What you feel comfortable with or not. But, like, in that moment, I'm showing them. I don't want to shake hands when I'm, like, having my buffet little plate of hors d'oeuvres, like, and I'm just meeting this random person, right? Like, and then another thing would just be practice. So we do a lot of practice, which is. Which is another form of logical consequence, like role plays or redos, but it's just essentially practice. Just, like, A downhill skier becomes very disciplined with their sport from practicing a million times. Kids become great at life skills by practicing without shame or pressure. And so if it's like a thing where we know, like, creepy uncle whoever or so and so is always like, so for c. With stuff like that, we can just have our kids practice being like, no, thanks, I love you. I want to give you high five instead. Or it can be very, very simple. If they're little, like, I'll give you high five, you know, and just practice it. If they're actually, like, going through the motions of practicing with mom and dad or sister and you. You act it out, right? You're like, okay, I'm. I'm Grandma Sally, and you know she's gonna come and try to hug you right in her bosom. And everyone's laughing and they're practicing. Yeah, that's gonna set your kids up for more success. [00:51:35] Speaker A: Yeah, that's good. That's good. I've started to tell my kids, my younger one can get overwhelmed even with family, because we have a lot of family. And so I've started to just say, like, okay, when it's time to leave, go say goodbye to whoever you want to say goodbye to. Sometimes they pick. There's the grandparents. Sometimes it's whatever cousin they played with. And I'm like, it's okay. They still know that you love them. You're over. It's fine. Like, you just say goodbye to who you want to say goodbye to. And guess what? You'll see them again next time. You'll be fine. [00:52:03] Speaker B: Yes. There is so much, like, cultural, like, conditioning that make us think that we have to do things a certain way or people are going to be offended. And it's like, you know what? Some. It's parenthood, I think, is such a great journey of, like, learning to, like, let people just own their stuff too. Like, that's not about us. If someone gets offended and thinks we're some new age, unbiblical, gentle parenting, like, if that's on them, they haven't done their research. They are not aware of what years of conditioning women to think that they had to, like, hug, you know, all the stuff. Like, they get to own that. And if they're ready to learn and evolve as a human being, we get to trust that they will. And if they won't, that's. That's got to be hard for them. But in our world, we're. We're learning, we're growing, we're evolving, we're doing things that for us Feel in line with our moral compass and our God and, like. Like, that at the end of the day, is the best way to live because, yeah, it's just too. Life is too short to live it for other people. [00:53:07] Speaker A: Yes. All right, so January is coming. It is coming. There is a light at the end of the tunnel. Kids will go back to school sometimes. That's harder to try to transition back into school than it is just all being home at the same time. How do we ease them back into, like, regular life of routine and all of that without throwing them into, like, a culture shock? [00:53:28] Speaker B: Yeah, well, it's like. I think what comes to my mind is just let them have their emotions. Don't try to make, like, if. You know, my kids are at the age now 14 and 17, where they're just like, oh, I don't want to go to school, and I'm like, oh, okay. It's no big deal. Like, I. I know that they're gonna. They're both. They got straight A's. They're gonna. They're gonna do great. [00:53:52] Speaker A: They're. [00:53:52] Speaker B: It's like, no need to make them think that they have to, like, feel differently right now. Right? Like, they'd rather be out in the world hanging out with their friends. And so as the time comes to return and they're, like, all bummed, I think my thought is just to try to avoid making them wrong for being bummed about going back. So it's like, it's okay to be sad. It's okay to, like. I had a great time over break, too. It was so fun to sleep in. It was so fun not to make lunches. It was so fun to be able to go to bed late and, you know, and all the things and time to go back. And, of course, you can throw in some, like, here's. And this is good to remind us, too, right? Because it's easy to romanticize whatever we have in the moment that we think has created this great thing, but then to remember that there are such perks of the schedule. Right. Obviously, we get the quiet time if they're in normal schooling, and it just feels good for the body to be on a rhythm, and we get to see our friends or, like, whatever positives you want to throw out there about going back to school, but just kind of letting them be with. We do a lot of emotional literacy coaching here for both kids and adults. And when we try to make someone change their feelings, we get into trouble. We get into relationship strife. There's pressure, there's anxiety, and really, it's just, it's okay to be sad, it's okay to be happy, it's okay to be bummed. Whatever it is we teach, happy, mad, sad, hurt and scared is the big ones we teach here. But yeah, just letting kids, trusting that they can be really sad and not want to go tomorrow and trust that they'll still wake up and go, if that makes sense. Because I know my little guy had separation anxiety pretty bad when he was little and, and just learning that it's okay to support them through their emotions instead of try to make them change and that it was going to be okay, whatever happened type of thing. Does that answer your question at all? Yeah. [00:55:58] Speaker A: No, it really does. It really does. Because it, that I think that is, it's most often not that they aren't physically going to go, they're going to go, they understand they have to go. But yeah, it's just more of the, and they might be a little more argumentative. There might be a little more resistance to not wanting to go to bed or more likely not wanting to get up in the morning, you know, if they've been used to sleeping in. [00:56:21] Speaker B: But, and I think so much power, Kristen, comes from in the empathy and relation to your kids. So they draw closer to you, trust you more, take your guidance more when you're like, hey, you're not alone. So one of the core basic needs we teach here at Fresh Start Family, that's just every human being on the planet needs it. It's like God baked it, baked the needs into us. But the need to belong, the need to fill for are two of the biggest drivers of behavior. And when you come beside a kid and say, me too, you're not alone. You totally make sense. Like, you're not an alien. Like, of course you don't want to go to school. You know what? I don't want to go back to work either. Like, yes, I wish we could sit around all day in our jammies and bake cookies. And I so get it. I feel a little anxiety in me too because I, after taking off for a week, like my emails will probably be like, like, you know, over 150 when I come back. So I'm with you. You're not alone. They love that their belonging goes up and their misbehavior goes down. [00:57:21] Speaker A: That's good. And it seems so simple, right? Just see your kids, just admit, I think that's part of parenting too is like we were taught to bring our, our own humanity out of it. And so like, no we have to say that things don't affect us, when actually, if we're honest with our kids about how we feel, yeah, they're going to respect us and understand us and want to hang around us more. [00:57:41] Speaker B: It really is. I know it's wild how off the track we got with, but it's all good. We're just bringing it back to, like, stuff that makes sense when it comes to parenting. [00:57:52] Speaker A: Oh, well, Wendy, since the podcast is called Becoming Church, how can we make our homes more reflective of the church that we so carefully curate for outsiders? [00:58:02] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, man, that's a good question. You know, I just have always been someone who just wants to be for us as a family of Christian faith. Like, I just want to be the hands and feet of Jesus wherever we are. So when it comes to our home, I've just always tried to be the most inclusive, welcoming place for all children. And even the ones, like, there were seasons where my kids would have, like, a kid that was like, kind of the trouble kid in class or even, like, I'm thinking of a season. Yeah. Not too long ago where my daughter had some friends who were, like, really getting off the. Getting off track. And, you know, one I was like, wow, man. Is she fighting an eating disorder? Is she. I'm in the know about all the behavior of drugs and alcohol and all the things. And I just always wanted her here, here. I always wanted them here. And I think that that's something that doesn't happen as much in parenting. I think people or, you know, for those of us who are trying to be the church, whatever is, we think that we have to protect our kids when really, I think the more you welcome people in that are going through life and that are different, you set your kids up to accept people for who they are in the season that they're in. And then you also get to, like, be a light and mentor people. And what I'm speaking of is the children, Right. Like, the kids that would come into my house that had no clue how to do peaceful conflict resolution or that I would. I'm aware of their behavior because my kid talks to me so much. Like, I'm aware of what's happening in their life. I'm aware. Aware of their risky behavior. I get to, like, so to speak, minister to them a little bit in a way that's not ministry at all, but just more, you are welcome here. And. And also just always inviting them to church. And that's kind of the way I like to roll. It's like, everyone. Everyone is welcome in this home. Everyone is welcome at Fresh Start Family. You know, we've just been doing a lot of work to become more inclusive and that's been a huge part of my faith journey lately. And that, that's been so intense and so life giving, just so like I've never felt closer to God, so. [01:00:32] Speaker A: Well, I'm really proud of you. I'm really proud of you. I know that. I mean, you know, we all have work to do and it is hard and I. Anytime that you're going to show the love of Jesus in your lived out life to another person, I'm. I will never say that that's not ministry, that's ministry, you know, so. [01:00:49] Speaker B: Yeah. And Kristen, I will tell you that when I met you and found your work, it's just so lovely to meet other like minded people, like minded Christians who are really evolving in our faith and living a life, a Jesus centered life with similar mindsets and thoughts and all the things. So it. You have really played an important part in my last year of feeling like I wasn't alone as I really did Christianity the way that felt in line with my moral compass. So thank you for your work. I really am so grateful. You're making me cry. [01:01:26] Speaker A: That really means a lot. I appreciate that very, very much. [01:01:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:01:30] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I will link up your classes below all of the things so that people can find you. And I highly encourage people that have not started doing the work yet to follow you. Maybe sign up for a class and start learning. It really does change everything when you can change the way that you parent and see your kids. And not that any of us do it perfectly, but. No, we really don't. [01:01:55] Speaker B: I still lose my cool. Yeah. All the time. Very imperfect, human. And the way we teach here at Fresh Start Family is like very authentic and vulnerable with that humanity. So I had a sweet woman. Do you know Sheila Gregor? You know Sheila Gregorsburg? [01:02:11] Speaker A: Yeah, I've had her on the podcast. [01:02:13] Speaker B: Yes. I did a collaborative workshop for her community a few weeks ago. They're so wonderful. And I had a woman message me and she said, oh my gosh, I loved the class so much. We taught on discipline and if anyone wants to come to that class, it's fresh start. Familyonline.com Discipline free, one hour class. And she did write me and say, this is the first time I've ever been in a classroom when it comes to like parenting or anything where I've. There's not an ounce of shame, no shame or feeling like I was not good enough or doing something wrong. And she said it just was like a very magical feeling to be in this, like, very shame free environment. And I think that's because we do. We're very, like, real with what happens behind closed doors in my house, in the houses of my coaches that are part of my team. We're just real, you know, because nobody is perfect and everyone is evolving and learning and healing and growing and so, yeah, just what an honor to be here. Thank you for having me again, Kristen. It's been really fun. [01:03:13] Speaker A: I'm great. Thank you. Listen, you are going to make it. Whether you're traveling or you have some quiet time off, chances are pretty good that you'll have some magical moments sprinkled with some not so magical ones. But you are not alone and your mistakes. You are not the only imperfect family member and you do not have to sit in the shame or regret of the choices that you've made. After you apologize and make up, you may also need to ask God to help you forgive yourself so that you don't carry that guilt into your relationships. It's kind of the whole thing of Jesus on the cross so we can live in freedom, not under the weight of our choices. Next week, we'll wrap up our Christmas miniseries with a licensed therapist who will help us find peace amidst the stress and juggling of all of the holiday things. Until then, thanks for listening and keep becoming the church to the people around.