Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:10] Speaker B: This is a no judgment zone. So if you're feeling a little extra cynical or angsty about the decisions that other people make in their own lives today, you may want to skip this one and just throw on some music.
But if you've got an open mind and maybe a little curiosity for perspectives that might not align with yours, then stick around for some beauty confessions.
I'm Kristin Mochler Young, and this is Becoming Church, the podcast where we discuss how the message and movement of Jesus is not just about becoming Christians, but about becoming the church. Each week, we explore the intersection of faith, culture, and everyday life through the lens of Jesus.
My guest today is Jessica Honager, the founder of Noonday, a people first lifestyle brand that collaborates with artisans in undeserved communities whose handcrafted accessories allow them to flourish in vulnerable places all around the world. We talk today about fast fashion and how our purchases here in the States contribute to trafficking. We talk about the beauty of God's creation and we talk about the stigma of cosmetic procedures in Christian circles.
All right, Jessica Honager, welcome to the Becoming Church podcast.
[00:01:19] Speaker A: I am so happy to finally be here to get out of the DMs and face to face with you.
We did it.
[00:01:26] Speaker B: We did it.
[00:01:27] Speaker A: I know.
[00:01:27] Speaker B: I followed you for a while. I think maybe from IF Gathering. Did you ever stay at ifgathering?
[00:01:33] Speaker A: I did, yeah. A couple times.
[00:01:35] Speaker B: Yeah, like years ago. I was there.
[00:01:37] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:01:39] Speaker B: So fun.
[00:01:39] Speaker A: And then so fun.
[00:01:41] Speaker B: I was like, I love a Jesus girl who wears jewelry and makeup and talks about stuff. Hey, I've had you on my podcast list for a while.
[00:01:51] Speaker A: Hey, we're kindred spirits. You know, that's what I want to be known as. Jesus girl who wears makeup and, you know, know where's jewelry. There you go.
[00:02:00] Speaker B: All the things. Maybe. Laughs a little loud. Maybe is like, yeah, a little.
[00:02:04] Speaker A: Maybe she's a little much at times.
But isn't. Doesn't feel bad about that.
[00:02:10] Speaker B: You know, have learned not to.
[00:02:12] Speaker A: That's right. That's true. Amen, sister.
[00:02:15] Speaker B: Yes, yes. Well, I've. We're going to talk about all kinds of things that before we do, let's do a little quick fire.
Q and A.
Yeah. Because you are the founder of Noonday, which again, we'll talk about. But it is a jewelry brand. Right. Fashion brand.
So what is your favorite fashion accessory that you have ever owned?
[00:02:34] Speaker A: I would have to say that would be my grandma's ring. It's a frog. I wish I was wearing it right now. It's pretty epic. It's a giant gold frog that's totally bejeweled. And it's just very unique and special, and I just.
I wear it and I think of her, and that's what I love about accessories, is that, you know, they are so meaningful, soulful.
[00:02:58] Speaker B: Okay. Was your grandma. Maybe our grandmas are kindred spirits. Was your grandma big into, like, fashion and jewelry and.
[00:03:04] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yes, very much. I mean, I have so many memories of, like. And especially even with jewelry specifically. But then also I remember going to, like, Neiman Marcus with her, and she would get her moo Moos, and I would, like, help her pick them out. And, yeah, my grandma loved her some fashion.
[00:03:27] Speaker B: Okay. Same. My. Yeah, my grandmother, I think, was, like, back in her day was like, no, I'm going to wear a pantsuit, like, even though I'm. Oh, yeah. A skirt. And she was kind of, like, dabbled even in, I think, you know, the department store fashion stuff.
[00:03:40] Speaker A: And good for her.
[00:03:42] Speaker B: I also have a lot of jewelry. Mine is not a frog. It's a big, bedazzled head of an elephant.
[00:03:47] Speaker A: Oh. But an animal. I don't know what it is. I love. I love an. I love an animal jewel. In fact, we have a crazy bracelet coming out I think you'll like.
I want to go grab it. I'll show you at the end. But in the fall, and it is.
It's a wild one. It's for girls like you and me.
[00:04:07] Speaker B: Perfect. Yeah.
[00:04:09] Speaker A: Truly.
[00:04:10] Speaker B: All right, what's. I know. I'm like, this is quick Q and A. And here I am, like, asking you to tell stories.
All right, what's one trend that you hope never comes back?
[00:04:18] Speaker A: It would be the skinny jeans with the thongs sticking up out of the back. Britney Spears style. You know, not that I think I ever actually participated in that one, but it was. It was here. It was here. Just the low, low, low.
[00:04:35] Speaker B: Jean.
Yeah. I never participated, but I fully remember exactly what you're talking about. And probably not because I was so, like, virtuous and wholesome that I didn't, but because my parents were like, we'll kill you if you walk out of the house. Yeah.
[00:04:51] Speaker A: You know, it's not the best look for us. No.
[00:04:54] Speaker B: All right. What's one thing in your closet that you'll never get rid of?
[00:04:58] Speaker A: I have a dress that I wore when we were bringing my. I have three kids, and I adopted one, and. And from Rwanda. And I have this green dress that I wore when we went to meet him for the first time. And it just means so, so much to me.
I'll have it forever.
[00:05:17] Speaker B: Do you still wear it from time to time?
[00:05:19] Speaker A: You know, I have not.
I have not. It's not even. It's a very. It's not like it's so trend that I couldn't wear it right now. I should pull it out.
[00:05:32] Speaker B: Listen, if anybody can, like, judge something together and re up it with like a sweater over top or something, it's you. You can figure.
[00:05:38] Speaker A: You know, that's actually. That's actually a good word because I'm. I love shopping a little too much, and I'm bad about shopping out of my own closet.
[00:05:48] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:05:49] Speaker A: You know, so this is a good encouragement for me.
[00:05:51] Speaker B: Okay, good. Well, I can't wait to see what you got. Yeah.
All right. And we'll talk more about this later, but is there some kind of like, bougie beauty treatment or something that you. You were either excited to get or that you would like to get in the future?
[00:06:05] Speaker A: Okay. So I was in Korea last summer with my son. He was 17, and we went through Seoul just for fun. He's. He follows this Korean foodie person. And I was on my way to Thailand, so I had heard Korea was like crazy face treatments, all this stuff. But I didn't, like, do a lot of deep dive before I went.
And spontaneously when I was there.
Oh, my gosh. This place. What was it called? I think it was called Tox Talks and Phil. Talks and Phil. Okay. And it was just like lines of ladies. Okay. Because as it comes to find out, Korea is like. I mean, you. It's. It's actually a spiritual practice for them. Not in a great way, but, like, you've got to have this. So anyway, I got a little lip filler. I got a little lip filler. And I'd never done that before. Yeah.
And I liked it.
[00:06:57] Speaker B: And was this super cheap?
[00:06:59] Speaker A: It was.
[00:07:00] Speaker B: I mean, like, compared to here.
[00:07:01] Speaker A: I mean, it was like $200. Yeah. Compared to here. Yeah. In fact, I'm going to Guatemala in a couple weeks, and I'm gonna get lip filler when I'm there.
That's amazing.
[00:07:10] Speaker B: Do it. Yeah, I am. I can't wait to see. I have the tiniest bit of lip filler. I got it this year. No one would even know. Like, my husband didn't even notice when I came home.
[00:07:18] Speaker A: Totally.
[00:07:19] Speaker B: I was like, I don't want to make them like, oh, Kardashian, they're going away.
[00:07:27] Speaker A: Yeah, totally.
[00:07:28] Speaker B: I was thinning over age, and I was wearing these weird lines and My lipstick was, like, coming out into my skin.
She was like, if we put the tiniest bit on the edge, we'll fix that.
[00:07:37] Speaker A: Yeah. She's just gonna give me a little.
I'm excited.
[00:07:41] Speaker B: Well, fun.
[00:07:42] Speaker A: I'll just start leading beauty trips to Guatemala, guys.
[00:07:46] Speaker B: Ma', am, sign me up. I will give you my passport right now. I'm gonna. I'm like, I am. Yeah.
[00:07:52] Speaker A: Noonday Launching travel in September, we are launching 12 trips that anyone can sign up for. And I've joked, and we are going to Guatemala. Four trips to Guatemala. And I'm like, do I need to make one of those a beauty trip?
It's not really the purpose.
[00:08:10] Speaker B: We can do good while we're there also. Yes, we can, Jessica. We hold multitudes. We hold.
[00:08:15] Speaker A: We hold so many tensions with no issues.
[00:08:19] Speaker B: All right, well, with God as the ultimate creator of beauty, where do you see his beauty most in the world?
[00:08:26] Speaker A: I mean, definitely in relationships and in community. I think that is where, you know, I started Noon Day as really economic empowerment for me. We were adopting at the time, and we're out of cash, and it needed a way to fund the adoption. So I started selling these beautiful accessories out of my home, and women came and loved it. And then they were like, can I do this, too? And so before you knew it, we had thousands of women all over the country that were selling noonday.
And it truly was this, you know, oh, my gosh, like, I now can afford our adoption. And then, of course, then it becoming became a business where I was the primary breadwinner of our home.
And in addition to that, we were creating economic opportunity for communities all over the world.
But when Covid hit, we really went through a really hard time. The business, you know, really took a hit, a big hit.
And I really had to reckon with what is the purpose of Noon Day if we're not driving economic empowerment right now. But what we were driving and continue to drive is community. And I find that friendship is the net that actually holds, you know, and we've built a network of friendship all over the world. And because of that friendship, to me, that is the ultimate beauty that we've been able to create.
[00:09:51] Speaker B: Yeah. Tell us more about the.
The artisans, like, all around the world, and the. The beauty that's come of. You know, there's a lot of fear right now, if we're being honest, of people from other countries and specific countries. And how has that.
Tell me more about the beauty of that you see in the relationships there.
[00:10:08] Speaker A: Yeah, Well, I started with a woman named Jalia, who I had never met face, face to face, just some of my friends were living in Uganda and said she's so talented, she just needs a marketplace. And you know, 16 years later she her, you know, we raised our kids together. She's created so much economic empowerment in her community and then also just friendship and showing up for women and like really being an example of a female leader in Uganda and being able to grow with her from.
She was so scared and her kids weren't in school and they didn't have a house and didn't have a future to now she's leading her community.
I mean that's absolute beauty right there.
Another woman I work with, her name's Rosario in Guatemala and she ended up becoming one of the first females to be like the deputy chief to the mayor of the town.
Another woman, Ana, was the first to get her MBA in that community and is now running a thriving business in Guatemala. Of all these beautifully made handmade scarves. And so we go visit her on these trips, we visit Rosario and we visit Ana.
And I think that yeah, God is a global God. You know, God is, you know, the kingdom is going to be filled with so many languages and dancing and colors and to me, being a globally minded person and building a global sisterhood is to me just a taste of what's to come.
And you know, when I think of, you know, Jesus said, you know, eternal life is that they know me.
And when I think about what it means to know God, I think it means to know diversity and people around the world that we really are more like than different. And when we go on these trips, that's what people come home and say. They say, gosh, the world's smaller than I thought it was.
And you know, they're sitting next to another mama who has the same dream, same heart, same desire for her kids.
And it's really powerful to experience that level of connection. I think it creates a lot more empathy. And to me, I feel like I have more of a bias, not of seeing what's wrong in the world, but I think I have a front row seat to seeing what's right and what's going well. And you know, we are co laborers with God in our job is to go create beauty and we become outposts of beauty in the world. And you know, that's really what, what we get to go do every day. So I feel like I get to kind of see that and build that and invite others to come along with, with us too.
[00:12:57] Speaker B: I love that. Well, what we focus on is what we're going to be drawn to and what we'll create. Right. And so yeah, if we are looking for negative, we'll be drawn to find it. If we're looking for beauty and goodness, then we'll find more of that. Oh, I love that so much. Well, tell us a little bit more. I know you've kind of like talked a little bit about noonday, but tell us a little bit more about what it is. I know you said you started it for to fund an adoption.
How is it working today?
[00:13:22] Speaker A: Yeah, so we are a social impact, primarily accessories brand. We have some great jackets and purses and just beautiful things and everything is handmade by artisans around the world. We partner in about 12 different, different countries and all of these businesses are owned by local people and we partner with them and we do collaborative design.
So we're designing with maybe materials like this necklace right here is, you know, if you're listening and not watching, I'm wearing this really brightly colored necklace that all the little Instagram girlies are loving and it is made from seeds. So we take a local materials and turn them into beautiful things that you can wear and we pay 50% up front. So that's really different from traditional retail. Traditional retail you might get 90% post receipt of product. A lot of times our artisans when they partner with other companies sometimes don't even get paid. So we act as this microbank and then we really are specifically working in more vulnerable communities and come alongside them and help capacity build, help help them where they might need help in their business as they're helping us get create beautiful things for our customer base.
And it's a fair trade model. So it really is, you know, we are all in it together as stakeholders. There's not one person in the relationship that has more power than the other.
And we like to say that we are anti trafficking by design and that we are a microbank disguised as a fashion brand.
And it's really cool stuff. So it's super fun.
It's really fun. I don't, I can't believe that this is what I get to do. I really can't believe it because it kind of encompasses everything. It compasses community, friendship, creativity. I'm a total creative. So getting to kind of lead our creative team and yeah, and then I love leading other creatives too and giving them the opportunity to be creative and to get to work with our artisans and of course just being around the vulnerable and you know, God really the name Noon day comes from Isaiah 58 and it says when you satisfy the needs of the oppressed, your night will become like the noon day.
And so I get to work with these amazing communities every day. And our partners around the world are really working with the poorest of the poor and some really, really hard situations. And you know, if you think about it, just little basic things like when we call an ambulance, we call 911 and what happens?
They show up, an ambulance comes, right? I mean in Uganda you have to have cash on hand to even get inside an ambulance. You have to have cash on hand before getting any sort of life saving surgery even.
You know, if you think about abuse hotlines, domestic abuse hotlines or CPs, these things, these infrastructures don't really exist in these other places. And so in some ways our business partners are those infrastructures for their community.
So when you purchase beautiful things from us that you would buy anyway at Target or Anthro or Nordstrom. We're actually in Nordstrom, So we're on Nordstrom.com.
yeah.
So what new day looks like today? We grew through a network of ambassadors that were primarily hosting parties and homes. And we've had about 10,000 women over the years say yes to us. And I am so grateful because I would never want to do this if I wasn't doing it in community. You know, I wouldn't want to be just like selling our stuff on Amazon where you're just like trying to figure out the algorithm.
And so we've done that through Community.
The ambassador program is actually, you know, closing down and now we have an affiliate program so people can become affiliates through Shop My or they can become wholesale partners. So we're in about 150 stores around the nation.
And then we do have a creator community that is, you know, if you are an Instagram gal or a TikTok gal, then you can find us on Shop My and see if you're a good fit for us, fill out an application. And so we're spreading in multiple ways. And then as I mentioned, we're launching travel. So we've done these travel experiences for the last 15 years with our ambassadors and now we're opening them up to our customers. And they're just very unique experiences to show the show people the world smaller than we think. And they're these curated experiences that inspire creativity. So how can we like get in our bodies? Whether it's creativity through shopping in the market, having a beautiful meal, making something next to an artisan and connection. So how can you get get out of your own life? Reconnect to yourself, connect with other like minded women and then connect with people that might be different than you. And for you to get to really experience the specialness that comes with that,
[00:18:27] Speaker B: it's like a fully immersive experience. It is, yes. It is so great.
I'm really like, give me the date so I can block it out on my calendar.
[00:18:36] Speaker A: Seriously. Got to come. That would be so fun.
He's so fun.
[00:18:41] Speaker B: Well, Jessica, did you have. Because, like, I'm hearing you say all of these incredible things and I know that like God led you and all of the things, but did you have. When I think about, you know, creators in other places, I often think of fast fashion. Right. And people in sweatshops and consumerism and exploitation.
And it sounds like you have really combated all of that. Did you have like a background in either fashion or business or something when you created this company?
[00:19:11] Speaker A: You know, I did not. I can say that I had a heart for the vulnerable. And that happened in high school. Going and visiting Kenya for the first time and walking a slum there and seeing a woman who was running a fruit stand. And what my local Kenyan described to me was that she had received a loan, like a $50 business loan, and that enabled her to start this fruit stand and then that enabled her to get out of her abusive marriage and now her kids are safe and she was safe. So this idea that alone in a business could create a pathway out of poverty for someone really stuck with me. And then in college, I majored in Latin American studies because I thought, okay, well, I love people, but I. I wasn't ever a helper. So that's the thing. I'm not like a teacher or a social worker. I really wanted to kind of more of a big visionary thing that was like, how can we make a dent? You know?
So I majored in Latin American studies, not knowing what I would do. And then after that I went and lived abroad in Guatemala with Food for the hungry.
And that's also where God just kept showing me this theme of entrepreneurship, but still had no idea. Wasn't like, I'm going to start a business like this someday.
Came back from Guatemala, met my husband through that process, and we started flipping houses, which was really kind of that where I was able to take something that other people don't think is pretty, you know, and was able to design with Joe, my husband, who had a construction background, and we would flip home. So that was where I definitely learned more entrepreneurship.
P and L Buylo sell high, you know, like really Kind of learning that, but I'm just learning as I'm doing it. I'm not studying it, I'm just doing it. And then at one point, I mean, we had multiple homes on the market for sale. And then that was when the crazy housing recession hit.
And we got caught in that and thankfully got barely out by the skin of our teeth. Just barely.
But that was right during our adoption. And so we had had two kids biologically and then wanted to adopt and needed money, and we did not have money. I mean, we thought we had money and then tell. And then suddenly we didn't.
So I was like, man, okay, what am I going to do? And that was when some of my friends living in Uganda were like, we know, we know you need money for this adoption. Why don't you try selling these beautiful things? And so I think typically, as a typical entrepreneur, you just do it. You don't overthink it.
You kind of jump before you have all the answers.
And that was definitely the journey of noonday. And it is wild. I mean, that's why I say God wastes nothing, you know, and this whole time he's been weaving a beautiful story.
And I think in my 20s, early 30s, it didn't make sense because I didn't start noonday till I was 35.
And so that's a long time of kind of going, I don't know what I'm doing with my life.
Yeah, you know, I mean, that's a long time to feel a burden, like, to feel a clarity on. I know I'm supposed to do something that has to do with.
With the more vulnerable and marginalized people, but I don't know how I fit into that. And so I carry that burden for a long time without knowing how it would actually manifest in the world.
And God really used an. Honestly, a horrible financial situation and an adoption, you know, to. To birth noon day. And now here we are 16 years later, and it's, you know, starting it wasn't the hard part. I think really sticking with it is the hardest part. I think you see anyone who's had a financially viable company for 16 years plus, I mean, they. They will have weathered some storms.
So. I have weathered.
Weathered some storms. I. I had a partner, went through a buyout with him. So that was. That was a challenging season. We fine and love and respect each other, but still, it's hard when you've been partners with someone for a long time.
And, you know, I did a merger acquisition with another company, Seiko, and their founder is Liz Bohannon and they joined a few years ago and, and now I'm in the middle of a turnaround, so just really rebuilding the brand and through new channels.
And it is, it is every day just, it's a joy. And it also requires effort. But I think the things in life do, you know, if you want to find your life, you'll lose. If you want to lose your life, you'll find it. And there is a lot of losing your life when it comes to building a.
A business whose central mission is to work with vulnerable people. Yeah, yeah.
[00:24:14] Speaker B: Well. And good for you for evolving. I feel like a lot of, maybe not a lot, at least some entrepreneurs or business owners are like, no, this is what we've always done and it's worked. So we're just going to like double down and stick with it as opposed to going, okay, let's try shop my. And let's try different things. And I just see your business continuing to grow and like reach more people because you're willing to say, hey, let's take the risks and try something we've never tried before. Because the world is changing and the
[00:24:40] Speaker A: way people are, the world is. I mean, you just can't. I mean, unless you're making widgets, like, I don't know how you can just, you know, like, yeah, consumer behavior has changed, you know, product. I just, this, everything has changed so, so much. But yeah, to your point, there's over 40 million people still trapped today in modern day slavery. And then many of those are in the fashion supply chain and under 4% of people get paid any sort of living wage. And so, yeah, we are working in a traditionally very exploitative industry.
And I always have come from a place of creating something new and beautiful and good and like, oh, we're going against something. But in, in a lot of ways, just teaching people to be a little more conscious about how they shop. And buying handmade really can go a long way because these are human people with beautiful stories that make beautiful things. And when you shop from noonday, I think you get to become a part of that story and experience some of that soulfulness.
[00:25:47] Speaker B: Is that why you call it like an anti trafficking from the beginning? Because you are just, you're paying people up front and you're taking care of
[00:25:52] Speaker A: them and that's right. We're really prevention. Yeah, yeah.
[00:25:57] Speaker B: So I want to know, you know, noonday was started from like you, you referenced the scripture. So there's always had to have been some kind of faith element.
I'm curious if you had any initial response of being a Christian woman. Right. Who then was like, but we also care about clothes and style and appearance and what that was like.
[00:26:18] Speaker A: I'm sure I did. I'm sure I have. I think. I think some more of my ambassadors. I.
I think how I grew up, there was always room for both.
[00:26:29] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:26:31] Speaker A: I had female pastors growing up. I. You know, like I said, I went to Kenya when I was 15, and that was on an adult trip.
My mom loves God and loves jewelry, so I did not grow up in that environment. The irony is that I married a husband who grew up essentially from a Mennonite background. And so the woman in his church wear head coverings. No jewelry. You're not allowed to wear jewelry or anything.
So I'm sure that's more of a struggle if you grew up like that, you know, being able to go, okay, like, how does beauty fit into this story?
And so I do think that.
I think my reconciling, honestly comes more with stewardship of our finances.
Okay. Yeah. I think that.
I think that is my struggle because I.
I know when I am telling people to buy things or even if I share about beauty treatments, I get. That's more like. My thought is I want people to be good stewards of their resources.
So if I had to, like, boil it down to kind of learning to hold that and then learning to let go, it's like, well, it's not my responsibility to know if someone has, you know, 80 bucks to spend on a necklace this month. Like, I don't know.
And that probably comes from my own story of, like, you know, I was literally scrolling shopbop before you got on.
I know how to spend some money, so.
But I think as far as just beauty and faith and fashion, I'd never have seen those as mutually exclusive.
Okay.
[00:28:28] Speaker B: I think that's great. I think that's refreshing. I'm not sure that that's everyone's common experience, because I feel like. Do you. I do think that.
[00:28:36] Speaker A: Tell me about your experience.
[00:28:38] Speaker B: What, my. Yeah, I mean, my experience was. I think, for me, it was more of, like, a pride issue.
And I think it was, like, a fearfulness against pride. Like, I remember growing up. Now, granted, I was the only girl my age for a long time. Like, I grew up with a group of boys, so everybody at church was like, oh, the Mockler girls are so pretty. And at the time, I was like, you know, I grew up with a very confident, like, identity of what I looked like and who I was. And then I'm like, oh, but also, we were the only girls.
[00:29:08] Speaker A: Right? Right.
[00:29:09] Speaker B: But then it was also paired with the evangelical, you know, like, just very controlling of what we wear. Like, you know, you have to have, like, three or four fingertips on your tank top and wear a T shirt over your bathing suit. And so I had mixed messages of, like, at church, I was being told more than anywhere else, like, oh, you guys are so pretty. But then also make sure that you do your body in a certain way and your clothes in a certain way.
[00:29:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:29:34] Speaker B: And I also think there was a lot of fear of, like, sex.
[00:29:37] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, totally.
[00:29:40] Speaker B: If you wear mascara, you probably will.
[00:29:43] Speaker A: You're gonna end up in bed. Yeah.
[00:29:47] Speaker B: So I honestly didn't come to any of my, like, even wanting to try out fashion and stuff until. I mean, gosh, I was, like, teaching, and we had to wear, you know, business casual clothing. And I was like, well, what do I do with all this? And so then it just kind of evolved and I found what I liked, you know.
[00:30:05] Speaker A: That's so cool. I love that.
Yeah. I have a lot of friends that grew up like that. And I.
I have to say that I. When I sit down and listen to my friends that grew up in that sort of purity culture, I really feel for them because I think, gosh, well, no wonder you ended up with some of these thoughts now.
I didn't. I don't. I grew up in, like, an Episcopalian church, and it just. I don't know, I just. I didn't have that. Like, if anything, my dad was just like, you're sexy.
Which is bizarre. But anyway, I just. Like, there. I don't know, there was. There was a celebration of femininity and beauty and fashion.
I will say what I did grow up with, which I had to deconstruct, was body image, because I did grow up in a culture that upheld beauty and upheld a certain standard of beauty. And I've always been curvy. And I grew up during, you know, supermodels that were, like, teeny, tiny sticks. And I grew up with a mom that was always on a diet. And, you know, we just absorbed those messages. She feels terrible about it now, but that's what happened. So I would say my. One of my biggest struggles in my life has been learning to love and receive my body as it is and accept it as it is. But that really was because. Maybe because I actually grew up in a community that overvalued how you looked, you know? So on one hand, this is interesting in one hand, like, the good that came out of that, we're talking about, like, there's. If you look for good, you'll find it if you look. But the good that came out of it is like, I. I don't see a disintegration between my love for fashion and beauty and my love for Jesus.
And it was upheld so much that then, on the other hand, I had to really deconstruct what the values are in the kingdom. And, you know, that. That my body was beautiful and is beautiful just as it is. And that. That's. That's been a long journey. I mean, obviously I still.
I still struggle, but I remember getting pregnant with my daughter and finding out I was having a girl, and I was like, no, this. Like, how can I have her escape, Escape the misery of hating my body?
And I think that really launched me into a healing journey. And. And, I mean, what's amazing now is she is. She is so confident and loves her body. But, I mean, that took a lot from me, just always talking good about my body, never saying anything bad about my body, never talking about diet or food or any. You know, even now, even now, if I see someone and I. And I'm like, I think she's lost weight. I don't say a word. I don't say a word. I just, you know, I like to say things like, gosh, you're looking so confident these days, you know?
[00:33:00] Speaker B: Yeah, Yeah.
[00:33:01] Speaker A: I just. I'm like, can we not comment about bodies? And it just reinforces the.
The mentality.
So anyway, that's my story. And, you know, it's interesting. My mom grew up Baptist.
[00:33:15] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:33:16] Speaker A: So I don't know, but she just didn't. I just didn't receive those. Those kind of purity culture messages.
[00:33:26] Speaker B: Well, I'm really glad you brought that up. Thank you for being so honest and. And vulnerable, because that too, I think there's a stigma, I guess, if that's the right word, where only certain people, or maybe a misconception, like, certain people are allowed to say that they hate their bodies, and then other people are not allowed to say that they struggle with.
Ask me how I know. This is the one thing that I don't often publicly talk about because I get the most backlash about it. About, like, almost like, how dare you struggle with the same thing that I struggle with because I was born into a different body than they were. And so for me, it's been a control thing. It has always been a controlling. Like, I also grew up with body image issues and with food issues to the point that, like, I'VE had to see a therapist. Thank God. I never.
Well, I was gonna say I never had an eating disorder, but then my therapist was like, hey, by the way, what you described is an eating disorder classified as disordered eating.
[00:34:24] Speaker A: I have.
I have journals of writing down everything I eat, trying not to go over 900 to 1200 calories. Like, I have journals like that's.
[00:34:35] Speaker B: Or. Or like counting my calories that I. When I worked out so that I could earn the food.
[00:34:40] Speaker A: Yes. It's been cycle.
[00:34:43] Speaker B: It is. It's a whole cycle. It's the whole thing. So I really appreciate that you brought that up because it's something that I, to this day, with my. I have two daughters, and it is trying to figure out how do I not take my body issues and my food issues that I've dealt with, but they're always kind of there and to making sure that their value is not tied to any of that. What they eat, how much they move their body, what they look like.
[00:35:07] Speaker A: Yeah. And it takes. It takes intention and effort, I think, to pass that on in a healthy way. And I think our bodies are not problems to be solved. They are temples to be loved and treasured. And I think what you pay attention to grows. And so if you pay attention to the stretch marks on your stomach or your thighs slapping together, whatever else, or, like, their arms aren't the way you want them to be. And if you keep paying attention to that, that is only going to grow in your mind.
But if you're able to pay attention to, gosh, I am so strong, and I look really great in these jeans today, you know, And I think it's just learning to turn the story on its head. But listen, that comes with a lot of effort, especially, like, I first started dieting when I was 8 years old.
And so that's like a long. That's a lot to detangle.
But, I mean, it's. It's a journey I'm very grateful for because I'm so much more free today. I mean, just so much more free.
[00:36:15] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:36:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:16] Speaker B: I think it's just trying to figure out what our identity is actually rooted in. Right. Like, for me, I had to be like, okay, God, help me to see myself the way that you see me, not even just physically, but in general. And that has kind of then led to, oh, like, I'm loved no matter what, and God's proud of me even if I fail. And, like, in a much, much bigger scale.
[00:36:36] Speaker A: Right.
[00:36:36] Speaker B: And then physical, you know, what you look like just kind of like, happens to fall under that bigger umbrella of, no, I'm God's daughter and he made me too much on purpose and yeah. All of these things.
[00:36:50] Speaker A: So absolutely. Yeah. Self acceptance. Yeah.
Knowing how much we're beloved by him.
[00:36:59] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:36:59] Speaker A: Goes a long way. And experiencing freedom.
[00:37:03] Speaker B: Why do you think that Christians. Christian women, I'll say specifically, like, sometimes get nervous to talk about beauty and appearance.
Do you think it is that identity piece of like.
[00:37:16] Speaker A: I think that. I think, Yeah. I think some of it's even what we're talking about, which is.
I think that, yeah, maybe there's like a supposed to. I think we know we're supposed to not get our value and identity from this, but then we also.
Yeah. I'm not, I'm not sure. I've been leading noonday for 16 years now, and it's 100% about having fun with fashion.
So it's hard for me to, To. To know, to go. Since I, you know, I'm like, I think it's awesome.
[00:37:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:37:55] Speaker A: I'm not in that conversation. I'm not.
I'm sure I've had women over the years, like I said, I mean, where even my husband grew up, maybe that's an issue. But I don't know. I have all these young girls now that work for me and we all just love it. We just have a good time.
[00:38:16] Speaker B: So fun.
Yeah. And I do wonder. There's probably like a fear of something, right? There's either a shame underlying or a fear of something of like, like, again, for me, it was pride. Don't be prideful. Like, don't want things. Don't put yourself out there. Don't, you know, go after things. Don't. It was all kind of connected to pride. And so I wonder if that's for some people too. Like, well, if you care about what you look like, then you're prideful. And that's.
[00:38:40] Speaker A: Ah, yeah, yeah.
[00:38:44] Speaker B: That's something I had to untangle.
[00:38:46] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:38:47] Speaker B: You've been really honest about. And I just feel like maybe you've done this for forever. And I just remember the last couple years. Like, I remember seeing one post where you were like, okay, here I am on my way to like, get Botox or neurotoxins or whatever. And I even did a story. I, like, screen recorded your feed.
[00:39:02] Speaker A: Oh, you did?
[00:39:03] Speaker B: And I was like, I was like, I'm gonna have to share it on Social this week. I was like, look at this girl. Like, I've loved her for forever. And here she is starting this conversation before people were really talking about it out loud.
[00:39:13] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:39:14] Speaker B: What made you just decide? I'm gonna get on social media and just tell people about this appointment that I'm going to.
[00:39:19] Speaker A: I. Okay. I've always needed, like, integration. Right? Like, even if you look at my life, of what I do, it's like I integrate my faith and my heart for the vulnerable with my, like, joy with fashion and creativity.
And I. I think I had seen something by Jlo where she was like, I'm just drinking olive oil in the mornings.
And I was like, this is not true. Like, like. And I. I didn't know about the world, this world of beauty. And so some of it, too, was. It does cost money. And so because I have a platform, I was like, hey, can you pay? Like, will you. Can I get a free treatment?
So I've gotten sponsor. I've gotten free treatments and.
But of course, to get a free treatment, I had to be willing to talk about it.
[00:40:09] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:40:11] Speaker A: And I think I was just, like, it feels like a little bit of deception if people keep telling me how amazing my skin looks and how I don't look my age. And they're like, what do you do? And I'm like, I just wash my face at night. You know, it's like, if you don't look your age, you're doing something medically. Like, I don't know what. You know what I mean? Like, I just felt like it was deception. I will say I have. My mom has incredible skin, and I just have good skin. So where you were saying earlier, like, you're not allowed to talk, you know, have bad feelings about your body when you, like, have, like, the stereotypical, like, good body.
[00:40:51] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:40:51] Speaker A: You know, good ideal of beauty. And so I think for me, some of it is like, I just. I got good skin from my mama.
But I.
I think it was that. I think it was like, if. Because I am actually considering getting an eye bliff or whatever that's called, where you get. I mean, all my aunts have had to get that. We just have these hooded eye things.
And I.
Now, look, I'm already talking about it publicly because I'm like, am I gonna talk about it on Instagram?
But I.
I don't know. Like, for me, again, it's a money thing where it's like, I don't want to encourage people to spend their money if they're, like, going to credit card debt. Right. Because, like, Sculptra is something that I've gotten that I need to do a reel on, actually.
And I Think it's been great. I think it's, like, tight my skin, and it's been great, but it is expensive.
So that's my thing is. And it's interesting that this is really coming up today because, I don't know, I need to explore this more. But I think it comes from my, like, heart for people to steward what they have. Well, steward their gifts, steward their talents, you know? Of course, I feel like we're public figures and we got to steward that well by getting our face done.
It's my exact excuse. That's terrible.
That's terrible.
[00:42:13] Speaker B: Listen, listen. And I'm so glad I've never had this conversation. I mean, I don't have it publicly often, but I've never had it where it boiled down to stewardship. Stewardship of finances. And so I actually really love this because I'm always of the mind, right. Of, like, it's so much easier to point fingers at other people. So I'm like, ugh, why are so many Christian women okay with, like, hair dye and makeup, but. And fitness. But they, like, have this stigma with, you know, cosmetic things.
And I, apparently, lacking all the grace in the world, have never thought, like, maybe it is financial, you know?
[00:42:46] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, maybe. Yeah. Maybe that's why people. It can be expensive. It can be.
So that. Yeah, that. That would. That's my only reason that I don't often. Well, I do. I share anything. I've gotten, by the way. I mean, I put my whole career. I mean, I like, did the whole. My son was with me. He recorded it. I like, like, recorded me getting shot. You know, the sculpture thing. I still need to post. I've done Soft Wave, which is. I don't know if you've heard of Softwave, but it's kind of like a laser tightening thing. And then in Guatemala, I'm gonna get this an IPL, which, I mean, I've gotten IPLs, but this. I don't know. Her machine is something great.
So I.
Now I will tell you, I met. Because I. We have these very honest conversations as a family.
[00:43:34] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:43:35] Speaker A: And my Gen Z kids when. Because they know I'm considering getting my eyes done, and they're mad at me.
Okay.
[00:43:43] Speaker B: They don't want you to do it.
[00:43:44] Speaker A: Super judgy. Very judgy about it.
Like, where does it stop? You know?
And it's a good question.
[00:43:52] Speaker B: It is an honest question.
[00:43:53] Speaker A: It's. It's an honest question.
Where does it stop? You know, I don't know, but let me at least begin. And then I'LL tell you.
[00:44:03] Speaker B: I'm like, not here. I'll tell you that much. We haven't found the line yet.
[00:44:07] Speaker A: Have not found the line. Haven't crossed the line.
But yeah, I mean, it is, It. It's at least it's something to always, like, bring before the Lord and, you know.
Yeah. What's the difference between getting lip filler and getting, you know, getting your eyes done or getting. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what the line is.
[00:44:33] Speaker B: I don't. I don't think there is a line. Like, I think it is different for different people. So if we, like, I have a budget, we save and we budget for my kids weddings and for their colleges and for savings and for travel and for all of these things. And we also budget for. For my cosmetic procedures.
[00:44:51] Speaker A: Yeah, that's great.
[00:44:53] Speaker B: And so, like. And I know it's a privilege to even say that I have the money to be able to do that.
[00:44:58] Speaker A: Right, right.
[00:44:59] Speaker B: I'm fully aware of that. But because of that, I do feel like, yeah, I'm not going to pretend that I'm not getting anything done because to your point earlier, it's. I feel like it's dishonest.
[00:45:09] Speaker A: It's. I feel.
[00:45:11] Speaker B: Look at me and be like, oh, my gosh, you're aging backwards. And I'm like, I know. Because ministry is just like, right. This is a blessing to step into my calling.
[00:45:21] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
[00:45:22] Speaker B: No, actually, it's given me more wrinkles and more.
[00:45:25] Speaker A: Totally, totally.
Yeah. To me, it's kind of like if you see someone out there, I mean, come on, we're seeing it so much like Nicole Kidman, Jennifer Aniston, like, if you're not looking your age, you're doing something about it. And so I'm just telling people what I'm doing.
Right, right.
[00:45:45] Speaker B: And I think, at least for me, I don't care what anybody else does. Like, this is not, to me, like, oh, everybody should be doing this. But I'm like, this is how my body has aged very quickly. As soon as I hit 40, everything. Everything changed drastically. And I was like, I don't want to have a date of health, but we could make myself look like myself again for a couple more years.
[00:46:05] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. I will say I. Being in Austin is. I live in Austin and it's definitely more of like a hippie town. And I was just in Dallas over for the weekend, and Dallas is very different. So where do you live?
[00:46:18] Speaker B: I'm in Charlotte, North Carolina.
[00:46:20] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:46:20] Speaker B: Smaller, big city we have that.
[00:46:22] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I do think where I am in Austin, I mean, this is what's hilarious, is I had home births.
[00:46:32] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:46:34] Speaker A: Okay. Like, I. That's what's so funny is I've, like, I'm not really into, like, doctors, and, you know, I'm kind of non traditional when it comes to that. So I'm a little bit hippie.
[00:46:47] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:46:47] Speaker A: Which Botox doesn't really fit into being a hippie. But a lot of my friends don't get neurotoxic. They don't even get Botox, which.
Good for them. I mean, it's like, I'm just. But they don't have a stance on it. It's just literally not crossing their mind.
[00:47:03] Speaker B: They're choosing to do.
[00:47:04] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So. But when people ask me, you know, like. Or say something about my skin, I'm like, well, you can have it too, you know? Let me give you her number.
[00:47:15] Speaker B: Right, right. And I really do think it has to be between, like, the listener and the Lord to know what is your motivation and why are you doing this? And I. I do. I will say, Jessica, if I had not worked through my own identity issues before I ever started any of this, I could see myself going way into the deep end and doing all of the things.
And luckily, by God's grace, I was able to figure out, like, what my identity was first and pull out my identity from my parents.
And I think it would have been very messy, and I could have gone real far if I had not done that.
[00:47:55] Speaker A: Yeah. I think it's like the same thing with exercise. Like, I used to exercise for my physical appearance. Like, oh, my gosh. And then it was manic, and it was like, I didn't exercise enough or I got to go to the. Now I exercise because I love my body and I want to feel good in it, and I want to be strong as I age.
And that's like, such a different posture, so. It really is. There's a heart posture that only you and God can know what that is. And.
Yeah.
[00:48:26] Speaker B: Yeah.
What have you learned something about aging? I mean, just talking about your kids that, like, a younger version of yourself wouldn't have understood or couldn't have understood.
[00:48:39] Speaker A: Gosh, so many things. Right. Because Hindsight is always 2020, you know, I think that I wish I would have arrived at acceptance earlier.
Okay. Because I. That was a lot of energy spent.
I mean, a lot of energy. I know you can relate because, you know, if. If you're spending 50 of your day when Thinking about food and your body and exercise, man, it's like, no one wants to be doing that, by the way. It's miserable, you know?
So I did. I started therapy in my late 30s, and it's like, oh, that would have been nice to maybe do that in my 20s, you know?
[00:49:24] Speaker B: Yes, so much the same.
[00:49:26] Speaker A: Yeah, like, that would have been great. That would have been great.
But I think that.
Yeah, I think I do find myself as, you know, after running a company, especially for 16 years, of like, yeah, gosh, I'm. I'm a really wise woman. Like, I feel that way. Like, I feel a new confidence. I think there is. And my mom did always tell me this. She's like, oh, man. Like, I'm not 50 yet. But she was like, when you're in your 50s, it's just like, wise, confident. And I.
I can. I can feel that emerging in me of just like, gosh, I. I make good decisions, you know, And I've lived a lot of, like, through a lot of experiences at this point to where I trust myself.
Yeah. You know, I think that was. Honestly, I remember after having my first child and going to trainer for the first time, and again, early 30s, had not been in therapy yet. He was probably the impetus to really start. Just. I mean, I remember I walked in and I've. Of course, after you have your first child, you have no idea. You think that you're gonna just drop the weight in, like, a night.
[00:50:40] Speaker B: When I looked down in the hospital and my first child had come out of my body, I was like, is there another one in there? Because why is my stomach not flat?
[00:50:48] Speaker A: Yeah, it's just great. I don't know why we did. It was so naive. So the expectations are ridiculous.
So I'm so. I. I'm coming in and I'm like, okay, you know, get me on the path or whatever. And I think I said something at Heidi Klum, maybe was like, the big model at the time, or he just said something to me like, jessica, you didn't look like Heidi Klum before, so you're certainly not going to look like her after. And you know what? Your husband didn't marry Heidi Klum. Like, okay, you know, and so. And. And then I remember just feeling that frantic, like, finishing up a workout and being like.
Because he was so hesitant to be like, you need to do this amount of protein. Like, he was the first person in my life, I think, to go, there's no program, there's no system.
Like, and. And I remember he's looked at me And I'm like, well, so what do I eat this weekend? And he was like, trust yourself.
And I think that was the beginning of me understanding what disordered eating was and what intuitive eating could be and, like, learning to listen. Because I think if you start dying at age 8, the message is you are not to be trusted.
[00:52:01] Speaker B: Right, Right.
[00:52:02] Speaker A: You can't trust yourself.
You don't know how to make a decision. So you need to have a chart.
[00:52:07] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:52:09] Speaker A: And so that. I mean, gosh, so many years, though. I mean, what. I was, like, 30 when I had my first kid and then didn't go to therapy till the end of my third. So it was. I bet my. Spent most of my 30s healing from this.
[00:52:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:52:24] Speaker A: You know, I mean, take it.
[00:52:25] Speaker B: Bring it back to the whole. The way that we grew up. A lot of people grew up, too, in the evangelical whatever.
Not trusting ourselves was one of the, like, key tenants.
[00:52:36] Speaker A: Right?
[00:52:37] Speaker B: Your. Your heart is sinful, and these things are sinful, and you cannot be trusted, and you have to be led by God.
And I think that, like, I get where our parents were coming from, or I get where, like, the church was coming from. Right. Of, like, don't follow all of your earthly desires and whatever. And great. But I think the message that we ultimately learned was don't trust yourself. And then that was applied to the choices that we made, the decisions, relationships that we probably saw red flags, and we're like, I know. I'll at least speak for myself. Like, but I have to get married because I'm finishing college soon. Or, you know, but I have to have a baby, but I have to do this, and I have to eat this and look this way. And a lot of it, at least for me, came down to that idea of, no, you. You are not to be trusted. So listen to your husband or pastor or dad or God or whoever that can be.
[00:53:30] Speaker A: Can be.
Yeah, that's a damaging message right there.
[00:53:34] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:53:35] Speaker A: Very, very damaging, for sure.
[00:53:39] Speaker B: Well, Jessica, for the last question for you, because the podcast is called Becoming Church, how can the people listening become the church to the people around them that maybe have made to feel that, like, caring about beauty or their appearance somehow makes them less spiritual?
[00:53:57] Speaker A: I just think we need to just free ourselves up first, you know, like, if someone got more free today to go get Botox, dang it. Great. I did my job. You know what I'm saying? I used to say if someone. You know, people, when young people come to me about their marriage, I'm like, stop drinking all the coffee and get A housekeeper. Like, I don't care. Like, you know, and so I've had women come up to me and be like, you saved my marriage because you told me I was allowed to get a housekeeper.
So now I'm like, you know what? If you want to get a little Botox is. It'll put a little pep in your step. Go for it.
And I think accepting ourselves and our own stories and naming our own stories helps us to create stories, space for other people's stories. Yeah. And I think when we find ourselves being judgy or critical of others, it's often because there's something in our own stories we haven't yet loved and accepted in ourselves.
So I think there is work to do first in loving and accepting those parts of our stories that we most hate.
How can you name that to someone else? I mean, I literally spent the weekend naming a part of my story that I hate to a couple of my friends. And I am having the best week. I am having such a more free week because.
And it actually was at dinner one night, my girlfriend said, what's the thing that you're even too afraid to talk to your therapist about?
Like, because you just feel like it's so vulnerable. And so we all just shared, and I think we all just got more free that night. So I think if you can learn to identify those parts in your story that you most don't want to share, name them in light of someone else that's going to receive that in a loving way and not leave the room.
That is becoming the church to me, that is the church. That's what the church is meant to be.
[00:55:47] Speaker B: Yeah. Bringing freedom to people.
I love it.
Thank you, ma', am, so much. I will link up noonday and we will all be watching for those fall trip dates to come.
[00:55:59] Speaker A: Yes.
Come on a trip. Come on a trip. Yeah. Thank you so much.
[00:56:07] Speaker B: If nothing else else, I hope that you'll walk away from this episode with compassion and curiosity for someone else's story, realizing that there is probably a lot more that goes into the choices people make for themselves than anyone else is truly aware of. I hope you're able to reserve judgment not only for the people around you, but also for the things that you're holding against yourself, whether it's something you think you should do more or less, care about more or less, or compare yourself to more less.
Philippians 4. 8 says that we are to think about what is true and honorable and right and pure and lovely and admirable and excellent and worthy of praise. And I'm praying right now that you find freedom from the thoughts and beliefs that hold you captive. That you will be able to think about these things when you think about yourself. And that you will have the eyes of God to see that you are creating. Created in God's image. Which means that you, my friend, are already good.
Until next time, thanks so much for listening and keep becoming the church of the people around you.
