[00:00:10] Speaker A: Get ready for a pep talk and some inspiration, because we are bringing out the holy audacity in you today. I'm Kristen Mockler Young, and this is Becoming Church, the podcast where we discuss how the message and movement of Jesus is not just about becoming Christians, but about becoming the church. Each week, we explore the intersection of faith, culture, and everyday life through the lens of Jesus. If you're a fan of the Apprentice or the Miss America pageant, you may be familiar with today's guest, Marshawn Evans Daniels. She has so much to share with us about how God uses all kinds of experiences to shape us, wake us up, and show us who we really are in Him.
She has a blessing for you at the end of this episode that I hope you'll take the time to just sit in for a moment, because I do believe there is something in that message that God gave Marshawn, just for you. After the episode ends, head over to Substack for a bonus question where we talk about the tensions of success as a follower of Jesus, especially when it comes to, and I quote, Christian influencing. There's a special discounted rate just for listeners if you use the link in the show notes.
All right, Marshawn, welcome to the Becoming Church podcast.
[00:01:19] Speaker B: Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. I think that the title of your podcast is an invitation. It con. Every time you think about it, it's like, man, that car just cut me off. Am I becoming the church?
My kids, I've asked you a thousand times. I'm becoming a church. So I think it is a call to all of us as women to remember that we really are the house of the kingdom. And so thank you for having me. I'm excited about this conversation.
[00:01:44] Speaker A: Yay. It's going to be so. It's so good. I was telling you before we started recording, I was actually, I guess, unintentionally inspired by you. I never wear my hair up, ever.
And I'm like, look at us here.
[00:01:56] Speaker B: One accord.
I love it.
[00:01:59] Speaker A: Well, Marshawn, we are going to dig into all kinds of things. But for people that may maybe not are familiar with you yet, you do all kinds of things. You are a mom, a wife. You are a TV personality, an author, a mentor, a business coach. My favorite is that you are a reinvention strategist, and we're going to dig more into that later. But what is. Which of those roles is bringing you the most life right now?
[00:02:23] Speaker B: Well, it's interesting. For the last 16 years, I have gone by the title of reinvention strategist.
I was in the airport and I had just called off this wedding six days beforehand. Maybe we'll get into it. It's pretty juicy. But I was with my friend Valerie Burton, who is good girlfriend I've known since I was 17. And we were both going to the speaking engagement and she was in a season of transition. She had just walked out of a marriage and I just walked out of an engagement. Yeah. And a wedding. Yeah, both of those together is actually pretty dramatic. But as we were walking down in Dulles Airport, I heard God say, you're gonna help. He said the word reinvention. And I never really heard that. I mean, it's not like. No. The word or how it's spelled, but it dropped in my spirit. And I call these lightning bolt moments where it's this moment of illumination that God gives you something and he gave me that word reinvention. Now, 16 years into helping women build businesses, reinvent their lives, anchor it in the soil, the air, and the anointing of the Holy Spirit, I have felt like it's interesting when you outgrow a massively blessed season. I'm going to not know how I was going to pay my bills to building a multimillion dollar company, having million dollar earning days, and then stopping to write a $25 book and then feeling like the world is so cluttered with voices that are saying nothing and not wanting and feeling like I don't feel like I belong here anymore. And my North Star has always been destiny.
And so the title that I think she's asking Oprah level questions, the title now that I've leaned into, I think that I've avoided because it didn't strategically make as much sense as now. Being a destiny architect of looking back and I'm like, since I was a kid, I was always seeing something more for people. Hey, you could start a makeup company. When I was in elementary school, because I could see someone had a gift and talented. And so I think the title of destiny and that my mom told me years ago when I was here visiting and her dementia was just starting to take a little bit of notice, she wrote, you're an architect. You help build people up.
And something God had told me in my closet years in 2010, when I didn't know what to do and how I didn't know what was ahead and I didn't even think I would be going into business, he showed me this vision of helping people to become buildings that they are the houses of wisdom.
And so for the first time, I'm saying it out loud. Destiny Architect. It's in my Instagram bio.
It's in my new bio. But being able to say that, I think is believing also that you're worthy of a new vision and a new season that may layer upon another one. So I would say destiny Architect. It's what I want to bring into my home, into my work, and also just into myself.
Yeah.
[00:05:14] Speaker A: Well, I love that I'm catching you in this kind of, like, transition from one to the next, because I think it's super inspiring. You know, I was a kindergarten teacher for a long time. That's what I did. That's what I thought. Like, I was created to do was teach and be with little kids. And then God called me into ministry, which I never expected.
And I, like, it was very much a God call, you know, so it wasn't. I didn't ever question it. But I do think that people struggle with that idea of, like, no, this is what I'm supposed to be, or I did it for so long, or I was really, really good at it. And so then when. When God does bring something brand new, I think people can struggle with like, am I. Was I wrong then? And they want to either, like, diminish that season or. But I think it's amazing to be able to say, hey, these are all these different chapters of. Of my life that have all been great and now are bringing you to the next place.
[00:06:06] Speaker B: Absolutely. And that's the. That's the real mark of faith. Like, yeah, if we are following God, our lives look like the squiggly line that goes.
The idea that it's linear is actually a strategic plan of the enemy. It is designed to keep us in protocol, people pleasing, religiosity fitting in, conformity. And everything about God is supposed to break through, and it's really injustice.
And this may be a little heavy, but I believe a demonic partnership that has found its way into the church to keep people safe and plain and. And in line.
Yeah. And so for me, reinvention has always been about this. It's not about become just doing something new. It's about being what God has always intended for your life.
And women love new things. But the thing is, when God calls us into something new, it's ancient. It's something he always created. And so my first book, Believe Bigger, is about divine reinvention. It's not about having a new thinking for a new life and a new season and a new closet. And it is about being when God says Be made new. He is saying, I am creating you, for I've created you for this moment and the old garment you're wearing, the old identity you've carried. But everything matters. So I got my start with kids, too. I thought I wanted to be a juvenile court judge and I used to work with kids. I started speaking with kids and kindergarteners. I say is where you get. That's where you become good. Because when I was speaking to kids, they want to be Power Rangers. If you can tell a story, if you can teach a concept, because kids can tell. They know if you're faking it. They know if you're ungenuine. And that means that makes even more sense for why God had you in that season.
Because when you are in, it's like he can trust you with the tenderness of tender hearts. And if you can make it plain, right? And there's a level of joy that you have to have to pull out the best in young people. And my. I have. My girls are six.
So I think that's just a very, very, very special thing. But reinvention is coming into alignment with God's original intention. And we will have to do that time and time again. We will have to put down our old self, pick up the new garment. Be willing to say, when he says, go to the place that I will show you, it means you are willing to do that. And when we are not, stop asking him to use you because you keep telling him no.
Okay. Yeah, sorry, little this morning.
[00:08:48] Speaker A: No, come on.
I'm good. Bring it. We are so good.
Well, and you have, you have.
Here's what's funny, Marshawn, about our, like, Internet friendship is because I have followed you for forever. We've messaged, we've like followed each other. I did not look into your background until I started prepping for this actual episode. And so then all of a sudden I was like, hold on, ma', am, because you have lived some lives like you, you are not just saying these things. You've actually lived it out. So you are Miss District of Columbia in Miss America. You have your law degree. You are on the Apprentice with now President Donald Trump. I did not know these things.
You started one of the fastest growing woman owned sports agencies.
Like, tell me just one fun story or lesson about reinvention from one of these, one of these past lives.
[00:09:43] Speaker B: Have any of them been fun? I think it's fun when you get to the place that he's sending you.
[00:09:49] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:09:50] Speaker B: And so it's not fun to get there sometimes. So With Miss America. I heard this stat long time ago that a parent is more likely to have a son in the NFL than in Ms. America.
Right?
[00:10:03] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:10:03] Speaker B: A daughter that gets competed in Miss America. And I grew up here in Texas as a brown girl in a very white school where my brother and I were two of five kids in the entire school.
So it was like integration. It was the first time any of them had had black children in their classroom.
So for me, learning to trust God, to believe God, to go where God guides, has resulted in reinvention, has resulted in me being able to go to TCU and graduate magna cum laude. Even though I grew up thinking I was not smart, I just worked hard. I didn't. I lived the identity. I never thought I was smart. And then being able to do that, I was a competitive baton twirler. I'm legally blind in my left eye. So my talent at Miss America was baton trolling. The first baton troller to win talent, I was 3rd runner up interview and talent winner Miss America community Service and won $80,000 in scholarships.
[00:11:01] Speaker A: Amazing.
[00:11:02] Speaker B: But while I was there, 9, 11 happened.
We're at. We're in New Jersey, Atlantic City, where the pageant happens. New York's next door. I miss D.C. i'm representing our nation's capital.
And the Twin towers are hit, in addition to the Pentagon, which I pass by every day coming into the city.
And so that is actually the first time I really heard the story of Esther. But I didn't understand it very well then at all like I do now, because all these women are talking like, this is an Esther moment. But what I will say is it was like, wow, I've been pursuing this crown for a long time. But when I was a little girl with legally blind eye in a brown environment, the only black girl, often at competitions and coliseums full of people, that then he was preparing me for this stage.
I really feel the anointing. I think I'm just remembering what God does even in hard seasons, because many of us are in hard seasons now. That, yeah, they're glorious in front of people, but the years of work, the things that we expose our kids to early that my mom would put me in. This lady at the end of our block had a garage that she turned into a dance studio.
So that's where I learned baton twirling. But she said, marshawn's growing too fast. We need to find. You need to probably find another teacher. Well, on the other side of the block, there was this young lady. She was a teenager named Kathy Gilbert. She was a competitive baton twirler, and I started taking lessons from her. And then I outgrew that. She says, you can work. You need to go to my coach, Janice Jackson, who's one of the best in the world. So even the fact that as a brown girl with a dad who didn't graduate, barely got out of high school. Mom, first generation, we're in this neighborhood. He would sit me smack dab in the middle of two teachers to expose me to something I've never even. Who knows about. But competitive international baton.
Being at Miss America was. I had a talent that got me there.
I was a feature troller at tcu, and it was amazing to walk that stage. But my talent song, this is the last thing I'll say was I will survive.
You know, glory gainers. We will not crumble, we will not lay down and die. God prophetically planned that the first time he put a baton in my hand when I was probably younger than 6, to be able to perform that 10 days after 9, 11.
The highest watch Miss America in the history of Miss America being televised. We will not crumble. We will not lay down and die. And this is why I believe that for women, yeah, it's. I love media because I love glorifying God. And I. It's not my job how he does that. It is my job to be.
To bring the best that I can to whatever he's put inside of me, to risk and do something that's never been done. And I'm thankful for the teachers who said that I needed to be in special education and that.
That put my name on the board and just, you know, my brother and I experienced a lot of racism. Thankful for that because I'm not dependent on someone else to tell me where I can go. I don't ask for permission. I make a lot of people uncomfortable.
And so when I think about Miss America, when I think about the Apprentice, I think about a woman that got saved from watching reruns of the Apprentice and felt something about the Holy Spirit. I prayed with her. Her mom reached out to me. The next day, I get an email from her. I messaged her, and she passed away. And so she accepted Christ through the Apprentice. Marshawn, this is what I'm talking about with media and influence and why I believe it is so important for us as women to not become influencers, but to become ambassadors, to become bridges for people, to be bold in what we are doing, what we're building without doubt and hesitation. But we are a part of an eternity plan. And we, this industry, whatever this industry is, what the Internet has become, the superficialness of posting in likes and the way that Christian. I'll use that with air quotes.
Women are utilizing these platforms peddling the word for profit. I pray that God brings a fire and brings a lot of it down to its knees, that it would be brought down as the filth that it is because we are walking not very different than the word, only just placing up a little cross and a Bible at the top of it. So I know that was a long answer, but all of those things were hard fought, hard labored. They're exciting on the day that they air. But getting there. Yeah. Requires a lot of. No, a lot of sacrifice. A lot of being told that who do you think you are to get there? And then God shows you exactly who
[00:15:31] Speaker A: you've always been, exactly who he created you to be. Right.
And it does sometimes I love that you got to pray with that woman, you know, and you got to have that moment. We don't always have the moments of knowing. Right. We don't always know, like the impact that we're making. We. We can't always look back and see, oh, here's the steps that took to bring me here.
But I want to pause really quick. I want you to talk about Esther because you, I hear you talk about Esther all the time. And I want to just tell us a little bit about like what it is about that story that has really like stuck with you or inspired you or you know, what it is about. Not just from Miss America, but like now in life.
[00:16:13] Speaker B: I didn't understand what they were talking about, you know, how you know your Bible stories. I mean, until you don't. Yeah, yeah. And I'm like, well, some people like you have your go to stories. I definitely like. The story of Mary and Elizabeth is my favorite story in the Bible.
My favorite person in the Bible is Moses. My favorite example of influence and surrender and boldness is Esther.
Right. I mean, there's others, but if you asked me to speak to you about Gideon today, I'd have to go read it again and remind you. And I'm sure God would give me something great. But I have the ones that are anchoring. And so at that moment, it was a foreshadowing of me hearing it. But the reason, the reason I love the story of Esther, but I think in this season, Esther is a convicting mirror.
It is used so much, especially by women in America, like a pageantry idol.
She's becoming queen.
That was never the goal, it's about being in place to save those who are being slaughtered. So I spoke on this last year. I don't take a lot of speaking engagements in Dallas.
My mom mentioned has dementia.
It's been a journey navigating that. But I didn't travel much without my mom and I certainly have never done speaking engagement in Dallas without her. That she can't come with me now is hard. So I choose not to take those. But I got invited by Terry Savelle Foy to speak. She had asked me multiple times to speak and her women's event called Icing 2000 Women in this opera room and beautiful space.
And I'm getting. And this is when there was a lot of fear happening in aviation.
[00:17:59] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:17:59] Speaker B: I'm like, I don't know if I'm going.
Because my dad was air traffic controller. I'm like, I don't know, something is up. It just felt like it was spiritual and it's physical. I'm like, what is happening in the airs? And I'm like, I am not going, God, unless you say go. And I'm going to need to hear it.
[00:18:14] Speaker A: Make it plain. Yeah.
[00:18:16] Speaker B: And there was so much resistance to me getting there.
But I get on the plane and we have an accident pulling out.
I don't know if we got hit or if we hit something. The plane, the plane, the plane.
And I text my sister circle. I called them. I called each of them a sword this morning.
And they're like, you are so covered. This my husband, one of us. Like, my husband's in the air. We've already covered the heirs. I'm like, I'm still on the ground. We get off the plane and I realize I was like, no. Here's when I. So anyway, it turns out one of the breaks maybe wasn't one of the things that was.
I don't know what happened, but we had two large dirts. We deplaned. I'm like, I've learned through traveling over the years that you just wait for your turn. You don't.
So I get on another flight. I get there, I go to sleep in a beautiful room with all these beautiful gifts that Terry's given me. And the morning of God wakes up and he says, you're going to talk about Esther today.
And I knew exactly what he meant. I'm in a room full of 2000 women.
98% of them are going to be Caucasian women.
And the story for me of Esther is a woman who is using, willing to use the hue that God has given her. Whatever that means in any environment that each of us, I believe, is fully created in the image of God.
So I look just like God in the way that he wants his self represented in the earth, and so do you.
And I was weeping that morning. And then I understood why the enemy didn't want me to get on that plane.
And I started my speech that way to the women and I said, there's a point where I did yell at the end. And I said, stop quoting, talking about and calling yourself Esther if you're not willing to lay down your life. Because do you remember the scripture says that if I perish, I perish.
If you're not willing to use that for the people who have privilege that looks nothing like yours, I have to hold that truth with when I see the Messiah one day because that is the only standard that represents the walk of God. Everything that the church has made cultural Christianity ish, where it's how we treat our neighbor. Well, what does that mean? Hey brother, how you doing today? I love you with the love of the Lord. Is that what that means? Or does it mean I see my neighbor being drug out of their home, drug down the street? You know, I come from a people who share one thing with the Messiah in this country, which is being hung on a tree. And I am amazed that we can call ourselves believers in Christ and not be weeping that that is happening right now in Georgia around because we are. We are. There's a bewitching, there's a stupor over our eyes.
And so Esther is a convicting mirror as to who you really are. Do not say that you are Esther if you are weak when it comes to intervening for the things that would cause you to lose your life.
That is who Esther is. Esther did. She was already queen, but she wasn't crowned yet with the anointing of God yet until she was willing to sacrifice and not to be self protected. And so I think I don't. I love Esther because I think she is impossible. But that's what God says we're called to. Like she was in an impossible situation.
[00:21:52] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I think so much of us take that line, right? Of like, perhaps you are, you are called for a moment such as this, of like, selfishly, of like, oh, well, we finally have arrived. Look what we've done, look what we can do now and who we are. But to your whole point, no, it's like, no, for such a time as this, like as I'm gesturing wildly to the world and all that's going on, no like, this is what we were called to. This is what we use our influence and our power and our position for.
[00:22:19] Speaker B: So what can. So it's easier to just be pretty on the ground, because then you can talk like it.
But the walk is what matters. And the question is, can God trust you with who he sends to you?
And why would he send to you those that you turn your eye to?
You know, I think also in America, we've gotten comfortable with compassion and even ministry and sending aid and things of, like, that evangelism to places outside of our source. Like, it feels like that's what missionary work is. No, the mission is where you are positioned, and you have been commissioned for it, and you are turning. We are turning our backs on it daily. And listen, I talk to my. I'm talking to myself, too. Yeah. I'm not taking myself out of this, but to stand up. I was terrified. And afterwards, I got off stage, I just wept. And I'm on the floor, I'm like, I can't believe you asked me to do that. I will say one other thing. There was a lady where. I asked, how many of you? I did not plan to ask. Nothing I planned. That day happened. Well, how many of you remember, we're here during. In America, during segregation.
And I watched it. I asked it. Yeah, there was a woman, white.
White hair on the front row. A Caucasian woman. And there were women throughout this whole talk who were just weeping. And. But she. She stood out to me. She came up afterwards, and I said, I saw you.
And she said, and remember, I haven't traveled with my. I haven't done a speaking engagement in probably eight years without my mom.
She comes up and she starts. She said, God. She just put her hands over me. She said, God loves you.
And she says, you remind me of, like, a daughter. And then she said, she used to lead a church. That woman laid hands on me and prophesied over.
And it was interesting that it was not a black woman who laid hands on me.
[00:24:25] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:26] Speaker B: That it was a woman who experienced this. The different water fountains and different entrances.
And for me, in my heart, I needed to experience that, to feel welcome, if that makes sense, for what this next season will hold. Because when you have experienced some betrayal from the women that you have prayed and worshiped with and grown up with and who are telling you what racism is and what it isn't, it is highly traumatizing, and it is hard to show the love of the Lord. And so sometimes I just got to walk away from this, and I. I Think one of the reasons I appreciate you inviting me here and us being able to have this conversation, which we all have. There was no plan here, but what I will say is that it's healing and restorative.
To tell somebody who has an experience that you will probably never, ever have that they're not having that experience is. It is exceptionally traumatizing. And I would ask all of us as women to think more or to listen more than we speak and to say maybe what I've been taught about the flag, about the cross, and about what it means to be a believer, that maybe those lessons aren't actually in the Bible, and maybe I've been taught a way of believing and thinking that is blocking the real revival. I'm not talking about good worship music. I'm talking about real revival happening in this land. And I believe it's going to happen through the women. But I would say maybe listen a little bit more and not take it. I think also for those who. For the. And I think everybody has their experiences, but I also think it's important to ask God to heal your heart from those that you feel will never get you or never understand you, because they'll make. Those may be the same people that he's going to send you to. And so God is still working on my heart because I'm a natural fighter.
I'm a lawyer by trade. I'm a natural. I use a man of the professional athletes, NFL, NBA players. I have two brothers, eight male cousins. I'm in a house where my nephews are upstairs sleeping right now. I'm one ready to battle. And God has been teaching me more about more doves and less swords. Okay.
[00:26:40] Speaker A: Okay. Yes. Well, I'm glad you're here to bring both, because I know that we have people listening that need both. And just thank you for sharing your experience. I mean, truly, like, the heart behind this podcast is to help people hear experiences that they, like you said, have never had and will never have to kind of put perspectives in front of them that they have never needed to think about before because of who they are or the lives that they've lived. And so I just thank you for honestly and vulnerably sharing not just what it feels like to experience these things, but, like, what it actually does internally. Like, that's just. I think it's really important.
[00:27:18] Speaker B: You feel unworthy in the kingdom, amongst people who are sitting and praising God, you feel unworthy. You feel unworthy of being heard, of being seen. It causes you to question.
Like, I think I'M grateful that I experienced so much young, although it does carry a lot of layered trauma with it. But I was with this Uber driver coming to the airport yesterday, and he is talking about all of these different things. He's trying to better understand God because of how much hurt there is this is a male, how much confusion and hurt and hypocrisy that there is in this country. And it is about politics and it is about culture. It is about black lives. Being told it was such. It was such an outrage to say black lives matter and wild, that still makes me want to weep.
So you feel unworthy of the thing that God wrapped you in as a reflection of his image, and you're fighting to believe that God did not make a mistake. I have three brown girls who are looking now at their skin color and deciding what is beautiful.
And as a woman, all babies should belong to all of us.
[00:28:35] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:28:36] Speaker B: Like, we should be the mamas for everybody. And I will say that that is not often the experience for kids with different hues. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's important. I think it is so important. And I really pray this conversation is illuminating, convicting, and just brings us to say, God, if we are nearing any version of end times, am I who you need me to be in this season? Not to make more money, not to have more influence, not to finally live my dreams. What is your dream? For me, that expands the dream of the kingdom, that expands the dream of heaven. And if the women today are going to still walk around like zombies and call it the Holy Spirit, I pray fire come and bring out the fresh remnant that has been under, underestimated, overlooked, but hidden, deposited and groomed for such a time as this that they don't carry all the cultural ingraining. And they're going to be the ones. I mean, these are the men that Jesus recruited and the women.
These are the apostles, These are the disciples. These are the ones that were not in the synagogues.
[00:29:49] Speaker A: Right.
[00:29:50] Speaker B: The pulpit is not the goal. The people. That's the goal.
I'm done, girl.
[00:29:57] Speaker A: You're going to keep preaching because I got more questions for you before we get into more specifically, like what you want women to know or believe or understand.
I want to stay in the church for a second because I think that I love that you brought up even previous generations right from your talk that you did at that conference.
What do you think the church either missed or got wrong with girls for so many years that we have had generations of women that either connect our value to our appearance or Our worthiness or not our worthiness. What we can do, our usefulness.
Like what.
What have you seen in the church that needs to shift?
[00:30:43] Speaker B: Oh, okay, that's a short list.
But what did the church miss? And what do we. What do we miss that is messing?
And I would say God's daughters. Yeah, our daughters. The thing the church missed and continues to miss is repentance.
Okay. The American church was founded on the demonic practices.
Right? I. When we talk about is there a black church or a white church? There had to be a black church because the blacks were enslaved and were in the basement. And there was a black Bible, a slave Bible, and that part nobody wants to talk about. How, how, how. How the cross came to the shores and not taught. You were building not upon a rock, it's building upon shifting sand. And that is why it feels like this all the time. Yeah. So it is missed repentance. And when we're. When there's not a repentant heart, it. The evil repeats. It lives, it thrives. It loves secrecy. It loves to not truth exposes. So if we don't want to deal with that because we feel uncomfortable, you're not.
You didn't have to be there to continue to build upon something that's always been there. There's not been a repentant spirit. So that's the first thing when it comes to our girls. I think that is a different situation.
I think the culture also though, of American Christianity and Christianity and how it's taught generally de centers and devalues the role of women, except for support versus a reflection of the hand of God, the move of God, the necessity of God, the Ezeknezo, it removes it as an addition, like a.
An ornament, as opposed as a main dish.
And so then we get taught people pleasing and protocol. Again, we get taught, don't speak unless you're spoken to.
And we get taught that the majority of our role is to support a man.
And the reality is that man could not fulfill God's plan without woman.
If that's the framing, it's not that we are more important than him or that he is more important than us, but that we are equally important. That message is still considered blasphemous.
[00:33:10] Speaker A: I know it's insane.
[00:33:12] Speaker B: And so therefore, as a woman, we feel that our belief in ourselves is also blasphemous.
We believe that believing in God is what we are here to do, but believing in ourself is not worthy or holy. That's really. And so then we end up Hiding. We end up thinking about what's appropriate, what we're supposed to do versus what we were gifted to do. We ask our children when they are young, what do they want to be when they grow up versus asking them, what are you here to create? Genesis shows creation plan for mankind. God speaks into existence and God creates. And so if God said let there be light, and there was light and God creates, it means he made us very creative. And then he decided the only physical form that would bring forth life would be through women. Woman. That he would create what he creates it and put it in our womb. And we feel inferior. And where the house that God has chosen to house, how he will bring forth man and woman, twins, triplets, quadruplets, cantuplets, he will bring all of that through us. And we feel inferior. And so it is blasphemous for us to dream. It is. It is too much for us to think about prosperity or wealth. But we see this picture in Proverbs. The word in Proverbs, when it refers to wisdom, it's always referred to in the feminine sense. It says, find her, she is more precious. He is saying in Solomon, the wisest man in the Bible, right you she. And it ends up with the picture of a woman at the end.
And the Proverbs 31 woman has been even taught as very soft.
Now, I think she was extremely strong in stature.
[00:34:58] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:34:59] Speaker B: And we see how that unfolds in multiple areas of grace, of her kindness and her generosity and her goodness. We've been taught that if we pursue ambition, and I believe in holy ambition, but that requires holy audacity to believe that I am who you say that I am, where it says that I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength. That is an anchor scripture for me since the time I was a little girl. Another one is that we are God's workmanship, his handcrafted handiwork, created in Christ Jesus. That means with resurrection, power and authority in Christ Jesus to do good works. That good works is the good in Genesis. Good like formed the way that God intended for the purpose of eternity. That he created us to do good works in advance.
That means the desires he's placed in your heart are not new to you, baby girl. They're not new. They are ancient.
He prepared in advance that you would do them, that you would walk in them. We have been pre prepared for the season that you're in. So those desires, those stirrings, you're turning a deaf ear to it because you've been taught that that is not the role of a woman. And I'm just saying we've had bad spiritual teaching for a really long time. My grandmothers didn't get to get an education, third grade growing up in the South, Georgia and Louisiana.
So it is a rebellious act to believe bigger b I G in a way that is built in God and not a way that is built by man who says the word of God and we take it as God.
[00:36:26] Speaker A: So let me ask you this.
Do you believe that girls are born as warriors or do you believe that girls are born maybe as a reflection of God, but then we have to like partner with him or follow his leading to become warriors in due time?
[00:36:45] Speaker B: I believe that. I believe every child is designed to be a supernatural weapon of the heavens.
I believe that girls are just God's strategy that confuses the enemy. Which is why the serpent, the serpent went after the most dangerous one.
[00:37:04] Speaker A: Yeah,
[00:37:07] Speaker B: he went after the most dangerous one. So yeah, we are weapons. And I am, when I say we are weapons, it doesn't mean we even have to use our strength. It can be our beauty, our grace. And the same way that God creates is the same thing that he asked for Esther to do was simply to use her voice.
[00:37:23] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:37:24] Speaker B: And so for me, you know, I was engaged before and I called that wedding off because I found out this man was cheating on me. And I was a bonus mom to three girl, three, three kids. And I thought when that relationship failed or ended, because it was a truly divine intervention six days beforehand for me to find out from a woman that she had been sleeping with my fiance. I've been on the Apprentice. I was doing a lot of national television for Fox Business, Fox, Fox, Fox Business Channel, Fox, but ESPN and cnn, all the networks. And I had my own sports agency. It was the fastest growing women owned sports agency. My first client had just signed a 62 million dollar seven year deal. My first corporate client was Rolls Royce and then Tiffany Co. And then Gatorade. And I'm just a couple of weeks out of leaving my law firm and I've never done this before, right? No training in this. And then I meet this man and I think, God, this is, this is what we've been, this is, this is bliss. I'm engaged, getting married. I close that sports agency down for this relationship and if something, when the very person who is supposed to catch you is the one who drops you.
And the worthiness question was, do I work on this? Do I go back? And these are common questions, these are natural questions. But God Told me the day I was serious in praying about it. He was swift and he said no. And I saw black letters in O very large. And sometimes I'm trying to make God do what I want him to do or plead. If I pray long enough, it'll come. He's like, no. He knew on the other side that I would meet my real Superman. My husband Jazz, we put a beautiful ring on it. This is the second one. I got her upgrade at 10 years.
And I went from being a bonus mom.
And then in 2020, at the age of 40, after six years of waiting and waiting on what became a very slow but intentional miracle, I became pregnant with triplets and gave birth to three babies in six minutes.
And in the middle of a pandemic in 2020 in lockdown. And I wrote my devotional 100 Days of Believing Bigger while I was pregnant. And that devotional has now sold over 400,000 copies.
Where we had no marketing team. I'm with six month old triplets. When the book comes out, we have. It's just me, my husband editing some videos for me. We had no big marketing and it has continued to stay on this trajectory.
And my. I've worked with women and I know that a worthy girl becomes a worthy woman.
[00:40:00] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:40:00] Speaker B: But a woman who was never the seed of ambition. When it is, when it is suppressed, we become self conscious. And if you just think about us talking about the reason I love to talk about money is because it's another mirror you have to ask for a raise. All of those things we feel uncomfortable about. It is a reflection. Worth is a reflection of our approach towards wealth is often a reflection towards worth. We've just taught, been taught a degree to think about those things.
And the Bible says, as a man thinketh in his heart, so is he.
And so having girls now I was looking for some books for my babies. My mom taught me about the Holy Spirit early. The scriptures that two of them I read Philippians 4 or said Philippians 4:13 and Ephesians 2:10 are anchor scriptures in my life as a child. So I want that same thing for my kids. And as I was going to look for children's books, I couldn't find any books that talk to girls about.
Well, most of the books even in Christian publishing talk about girls as princesses.
That means you're. If you've been watching some Disney movies, you're looking for a prince, huh?
[00:41:06] Speaker A: That's the end goal, right? Yep.
[00:41:07] Speaker B: Right, that's the end goal. But then also there's nothing that Teaches girls to love themselves. All the books say love God and God loves you. Believe in God, but there's nothing that says it's okay to believe in yourself. There's nothing that says it's okay to dream. There's nothing that says that ambition is holy. And so my goal in this season is to disciple ambition. But I was like, I'm pausing to focus on my girls. And there's a scripture in Ephesians 4:1 that says, to live a life worthy. I urge you. I urge you. It's like a pleading to live a life worthy of the calling you have already received.
That you have received. It says in the past tense, that's already been done. And so my new book, worthy Girl, focuses on. Can I pick it up, please?
So my new book, worthy Girl, focuses on helping girls learn about purpose and destiny and audacity early.
And one of the things that I so worthy girl is a superhero.
And her superpower is helping other boys and girls to believe in themselves.
And there's a variety of different girls in here, different ethnicities, but there's this one phrase in here where it says, you have big gifts.
Big.
And it says, you have big gifts. Gifts built in God. Superpowers so grand, they showcase heaven's hand.
And I'm just praying that when you read this, ladies with your daughters or the girls in your world and with your sons. Yes. So that they would normalize believing that their girl, their future girlfriends, their sisters, their friends, and their future wives are made as superheroes too. Right? Right.
That they would have a conversation and say, whose hand is that? That?
Whose hand is that that gay? And why is it in a gift box?
Why is that there? And. And what does a superpower mean if I'm not Spider man or Wonder Woman, what does that mean? And then that they would even. Even in terms of reading with the letters big. I love acronyms, but built in God. And so it's believing in God's big purpose. It's helping girls to condition them for destiny. And it still has some playfulness so that they can still be permission to have imagination.
And so I've written my first book, Believe bigger. Discover the path to your life purpose. This is telling girls early, believe in your big purpose from day one. And I don't ask my girls what they want to be. I only ask them, what do they want to create? And now we have a conversation is what is my superpower? How did God make me to get through this test or to make a new friend since the first day of School was yesterday. How can I look at my life myself as a carrier of superpowers?
[00:43:56] Speaker A: Well, I love about. I got to look through the whole book and so it is. I mean, Even as a 43 year old woman, I was like, oh, wait, 44. I don't know why I can't remember what birthday I just had. Marshawn. But somewhere in there, I'm 47.
[00:44:10] Speaker B: I'm just two weeks in.
[00:44:12] Speaker A: But I love that it is like there's playfulness and the characters are, there's tutus and there are like tiaras and all these girly things.
But then the words on every page are so strong. You talk about courage and resilience and faith and strength and all of these things. And so when I, I bought a, a copy for our church, I'm gonna put it in our, like, church, you know, bookshelf for our families to, to borrow and read.
But as I was going through it, I was like, it's not just one superpower. Like, I think the superpower that hopefully our girls will understand is that you get to tap into who God created you to be and also the Holy Spirit within you. And so you get access now to like all of these things.
[00:44:52] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:44:53] Speaker A: One day it might be courage, and the next day it might be, you know, helping someone else. It might be, you know, whatever. Just holding on to your faith or your belief.
[00:45:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:45:04] Speaker A: It's really lovely.
[00:45:05] Speaker B: Thank you. I mean, it's so cool to hear, start to hear people's feedback and perspectives on it. But as you were talking about that, there's a page that talks about favor and glory cover you.
[00:45:15] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:45:15] Speaker B: And my mom, I would say the life that I've been able to live is a byproduct of my mother praying the prayer of favor over me and my brother every single day. And it was like armor going into the school system. It was like armor going on to stages and competing. And I live. And I tell my nephews who are still sleeping in today because it's way too quiet for them to be up, not be up, that they are living in the prayers of their grandmother still.
They are. It's. It's so lavish and it is so rich. And this morning when God woke me up, I was thinking about how the strength of the kingdom, how when Christ was on the cross, he had to stop the army of angels from coming down to take him off. He had to stop like the might of heaven is also represented in the favor of heaven.
But the reason he stopped them was for the glory of the kingdom. And for the mission, for us. And so when my mom prayed favor. And there's this. So there's this page here where it says, favor and glory cover you. It's probably hard to see on here, but the little words that are kind of watermarked in here on the blanket say, favor and glory.
And I hope that. But it says, also, as a magnet for miracles, favor and glory cover you.
[00:46:35] Speaker A: But then I love the way that you had the illustrations on that page, that they're, like, glowing. I. I remember that page. That they're, like, glowing over her.
[00:46:43] Speaker B: Yes. Amen.
[00:46:44] Speaker A: Like, even just the visual of that is so.
[00:46:47] Speaker B: This is powerful. This illustrator is prophetic. I've never met her.
I didn't. I had almost. I had so few changes.
And I would. I'll stay focused because I could just. I'm just humbled that I've gotten to do this. But what does it mean if you. If you. If you're reading this with your son or your daughter or. I pray that you would think about gathering a group of girls to do this together.
[email protected] it's a site that we've built for Worthy Girl, the book, but also the world that we are building for girls, the movement we are building for girls.
And if you do, we have this great discounted bundle. If you get five books, you get this guide called Worthy Conversations. It's almost like a devotional experience to have with your daughters. And the book is designed as that. And then there's a guide for that. But anyway, as a magnet for miracles, you. You ask, baby, what does that mean to you when you see him? Do you know what it means to be a magnet? Let's go get a magnet. And what does it mean to have a miracle? What is a miracle?
What is favor? A mama may not know what that is. So this is going to stretch moms, this is going to stretch mentors. It's going to be a great resource for dads, for children's ministries. I think it's designed to activate the Holy Spirit in our girls. And lastly, I'll say in terms of the word choice, I pick big words for a reason, because we need to stop talking down to children as opposed to not raising them up. They're going to need this language to not only just deal with social media, but to deal with the schools that they are in. This. The school system is full of perversion. Do not rely upon any. Any state right now that is bringing Bibles into the classroom. Personally, I wouldn't trust it. I Wouldn't trust anything coming into an already broken system in that way. Your job is to build your kids up to not be taught the gospel by somebody else. Your job is to teach them these words that are going to. They're going. It's going to equip them to see deception. There's several things that my kids have asked me about them. Like, I said, who said that to you?
And I'm like, oh, my gosh, they're six.
I didn't have. I didn't get it. I was not exposed to any of this at 6. Yeah. And so, yeah, you come and talk to mom about it. I'm going to talk to you about truth. And I'm going to say you are going to sometimes not be liked because you're going to have a view. They understand. We don't bring witches to. We understand. We don't do black cats and ghosts and goblins. And there's so much deception, even when you look at, like, K Pop demon hunters. Why do we need the name demon in a cartoon for children? It is deception. It is luring them in. And so these types of words are designed also to help equip our daughters. That is what worthiness is. Worthiness is believing that you are the choice of God, that you are chosen by God, you are here for God's purposes, and that you will walk a different path because he's chosen you and you're worthy of the wonderful.
[00:49:42] Speaker A: Yeah.
Marshawn, how do you ex. How do you hope that teaching our girls these things? Right. Yes. Obviously, we want them to internalize this. How do you think it'll change the way that they treat other girls like this, you know, comparison, mean girl narrative, like all of that.
[00:49:57] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, I think the word of God towards us is yes and amen and very affirming. Yes, God convicts us, but only to bring us back into his how we are his choice. And so I think telling girl, telling a girl who she is, building that up inside of her creates a girl who spreads that word. It is. It is a seed that when we water it with our words, it grows. And we become the grace of God in our lips. We become the reflection of God's intention. One thing I will say, my daughter's names are Cage, Kaya and Callie. Cage is my firstborn. She's my alpha.
Look, she's got the bun. She's the one in the middle.
[00:50:36] Speaker A: Look at that.
[00:50:37] Speaker B: Callie is my third. Kaya here is my second.
Callie was one they told that we needed to selectively reduce in the Womb that she wasn't growing fast enough.
And we call her in the book what we call her. When she was in the nicu, we called her mighty because they kept calling her tiny.
And there's this phrase in here that you'll see where worthy girl is flying in the air.
See, it says mighty, not tiny. These are prophetic words spoken in these babies in my womb, where I was told I had a 4% likelihood of going full term.
And now to see her, to now be the tallest of the three, to be in the gifted and talented class that just started yesterday. The words that we speak become the girls that they are and the women that they will be and the weapon of heaven that they are. What? What? The weapon of heaven that is needed in the earth. And so this is why we have to speak these words. I've had lots of conversations in my publisher's grade and editors, and they're like, I think these are too big for kids. Good, big, built in God, it is too big for them. These girls are miracles. And I love how kind they are to girls. We could be at Chuck E. Cheese. We could be at any place. If they see a little girl playing by themselves, they surround her. If they see a baby, they get on the floor with them. And you build the girl up to believe that she is worthy. She naturally creates worthy girls, which creates worthy women around us. And for the girls who didn't have good moms, who didn't have present moms, who've got challenging issues with their dads, who lost your mom too early. Listen, I am going through a season of. Of trusting God, because my mom, her health is just declining. And I just got through three years of grieving my dad.
But I. I wrote a new devotional. Submitted that manuscript a few days ago, and I wrote a dedication to my mom. And I said, mom, I know there are dreams that you did not get to live so that I could live mine. But she had this dream that I thought often think is mine, but it is hers.
And she saw this sword coming down from heaven one day, but it was first she saw a graveyard. She was praying in her closet, and everybody was dead, and it was just deathly. It was gloomy. It looked almost like a. A scary graveyard. Yeah. But there were people laid out all over it. And she says she sees a sword coming down and it has fire and blood coming down, but it's coming down from the heaven, and it's so luminous, and it gets into your hands, and she's pierces people and they come alive. And she said it was so real. She jumped up out of the closet, grabbing the clothes like, she didn't. And that is so visible to me. And I said, it may not have been my dream, but it is now. It may have been yours, but now I hold that in my hand in these swords. And so I'm most certainly going to deposit the word of the spirit in my daughters, who are facing cartoons, normalizing demon hunters, astral projection, the level of magic and stuff that we have to use these words. These are the words that we need. And for us as girls who didn't have mamas, I'm sharing my mom's dream with you.
For you, I'm sharing the love of God that I got to experience because I did have the gift of a great mom. But I'm. I want to share that with you. The words, the books. It's just to share that with you. So I just want to encourage you, to let you know that you did not miss what God made you for.
And I hope that worthy girl speaks to the girl inside of you and reminds you that you are here for such a time as this. I pray that it sharpens your sword if worthy girls become worthy women. That I pray that you would find a new level of necessity that God has for you as a necessity in your heart, your mind, and your spirit. I pray over every broken place, every hurt place, every place that was defiled. I pray the grace of God cover it. That it would be so far away into the sea of forgetfulness that it would turn into wisdom. That wisdom would turn into a holy weapon that is not heavy for you. That the. The thing that God has for you. His yoke is easy and his burden is light. That this next season, I prophetically declare, would not be heavy and hard. That it really would be holy. But you have to come out of hiding. So I pray that these words, even in worthy girl, would awaken, would heal and bring with you the girl that is kind of stuck inside of you from all of the mean girls or whatever, and that you would step into this season of true womanhood, true Estherhood. Proverb 31, dripping all over you, Ruth, Mary Ann, Elizabeth, everything. For those of you in your wombs, I pray that they open up and that you have worthy boys and worthy girls. That we re. That we replenish the earth with his goodness. And that is why God loves us. That's why he calls us as his girls. Worthy.
[00:55:32] Speaker A: Oh, Marshawn, that's so beautiful. Thank you for that just prayer and blessing over the Listeners, I know that people are just receiving. I hope they do take a moment even to like rewind and listen to that again and just really receive the prophetic words and the blessings. Last question for you, because the podcast is called Becoming Church. How can the people listening become the church to the people around them?
[00:55:56] Speaker B: How can. This is the one thing you're never supposed to do is repeat the question.
Then especially on stage at Miss America, if you repeat the questions because you don't know the answer.
How can we become the church? Let me ask how can I become the church? More time in God's presence.
Yeah.
And the presence of God if, if purely pursued, would purify our wickedness and our perverted objectives that are dressed up as good, but they're really self righteous.
Moses said, you know, if your presence doesn't go before us, if it doesn't go with us, don't send me.
And he was in God's presence, so he knew the importance of God's presence and he was trusted because he was willing to pursue God's presence.
So that is my word. Just to myself is in the midst of being stretched.
I signed five contracts three weeks ago in five contracts in 24 hours, more books.
And I asked my husband, why did I do that?
I've got my mom with dementia, I've got three girls, got my business.
I've got this beautiful children's book and a vision and it feels heavy and it's reminding me, I am trying to carry these things and how can I lay them more at your feet, God? And how can I receive more of your presence? I can't receive it if I don't pursue it. You are so gracious to give it to me when I'm busy and not pausing. And so I would say for us as women, I don't want to just say the word pray because prayer and presence are a little different.
You could enter in the presence of God. I believe that that is how out of the overflow of our heart it says, and out of the overflow of our heart, our mouth speak. So we want the infilling of our heart to be. This is just my prayer that I would be able to be the presence of God to my husband, to my mama, to the staff, to the person who cut me off, to the person who calls me the N word, to the person who calls my children that.
And if the presence of God is a little bit more fiery, I just help me not be me, God, because I know that's going to be what's required Because I don't want to go into this season and in this life, in this world with the wickedness in the airways and in the air, without your presence.
And guess what? We can't. We will not survive without it.
[00:58:48] Speaker A: Right?
[00:58:49] Speaker B: Right.
[00:58:49] Speaker A: We can't do any of these things without it.
[00:58:51] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:58:52] Speaker A: Thank you so much. I'm going to link up both of your books and Worthy Girl World and all of these things. I just know that this has been a blessing. So thank you so much.
[00:59:01] Speaker B: Thank you. God bless you. And I just want to pray over you expansion.
I pray over your book that's coming out as well. I pray expansion. I pray that God build up more women like you who look like you. I'm not just talking about your hue, but the grace that you. You radiate.
You radiate his presence.
You can't be you. You couldn't. You can't manufacture the you that you are right now.
You couldn't do that on your own.
It is not. And you take. You're taking arrows in the back and front. I know you are.
So I pray for more women who are graceful, mighty warriors like you. And that you would have an expansion, that you would be a restoration of other women coming into the kingdom that look like the entire tapestry of heaven's hue represented in man.
I pray that you would be a leading. I declare that you are a leading force in that mission and mantle of God.
You are necessary for such a time as this. I thank you for having me today. That this would be my baptism of my first interview on this path.
And I believe that God chooses first for a reason.
So I honor you, I celebrate you. I see you. And I pray God's presence always be with you.
[01:00:31] Speaker A: Pick up worthy girl for your kids, your grandkids, your neighbors, or your local church so that we can help our kids, all kids, to know their worth and their place in this world. You can also pre order my book, the Other side of Certainty for more on following Jesus through those squiggly lines that Marshawn talked about. You can apply for early access of the manuscript by joining my launch team. But do it today because applications close at the end of August. Remember to pop over to substack to hear Marshawn and I talk more about how to believe bigger for your own reinvention. And until next time, thanks for listening and keep becoming the church of the people around you.
