Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Christianity has landed somewhere far from Jesus, and I do believe that place is Christian nationalism. But sometimes the most dangerous thing you can bring into a room is clarity. I will never forget standing in the voting booth looking probably like an absolute lunatic.
[00:00:16] It's almost as if, like, being an American and being a Christian are in bed together. Like our patriotism and our faith have gotten in bed together and have kind of become this messy thing that was never intended to be so connected. So in that moment, instead of finding freedom, I actually felt trapped by my Christianity.
[00:00:40] Welcome to Becoming Church, the podcast where we discuss how the message and movement of Jesus is not just about becoming Christians, but about becoming the church. I'm your host, Kristin Mockler Young, and today we are doing something a little bit different.
[00:00:54] Normally, this is a conversational podcast where I interview all kinds of people. I've had pastors, therapists, actors, authors, pretty much anyone who's willing to help us see where God is present in unexpected places so that we can first see him there and then learn what it means to partner with him in those places. To not just be Christians existing in those areas, but to actively become the church the world needs in those places.
[00:01:21] If someone sent you this episode today because of today's topic, I want to make sure that you know this isn't really a standalone episode, as in, it's not the first time that we've talked about the connection between church and state on this podcast. I'll link up a few of the other ones in the show notes below, but in the Becoming Church catalog, you'll find a variety of other episodes that include different perspectives from other people of different backgrounds, upbringings, and political persuasions who share their thoughts on this as well as today. Besides being my first solo episode on the show, it's going to be a little different because it's going to be more of a deep dive. I recently spoke to an advocacy group about what Christian nationalism is and why it's something that we all need to be aware of, even if you don't consider yourself a Christian. And the main point of feedback that I got afterward was, will you please do this again so I can share it with other people who couldn't be here?
[00:02:17] So this is mostly going to be what I shared in that presentation. Plus I've added a few practical things that you can do and say when it comes up in conversation.
[00:02:26] My hope is that this provides clarification or language that you've been looking for as you begin to see and understand the real problem with Christian nationalism.
[00:02:36] So I Have to start by telling you a story which is back to 2016. I will never forget standing in the voting booth, looking probably like an absolute lunatic. I was standing there and I'm laughing now, but it was very not funny in the moment. I remember standing in my, like, trifold booth. My face was red, but I was rooted in place as I stared at the screen. Nothing on my body was moving except for the hot tears that were rolling down my face. Have you ever had that kind of cry where you're not like, sobbing, you're not heaving, you can't feel it in your body, you can just feel the soul, tears of heat just streaming down your cheeks.
[00:03:17] So that's what I was doing. Sure that everyone else in the room thought, I don't know, that I needed some kind of help.
[00:03:25] But as I stared at the two names in front of me, all I could see were Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton. And at the time, in 2016, I knew virtually nothing about either one of them. I had done no research, I had done no political investigation, because as a Christian, I didn't think that I needed to see. I knew that voting was my opportunity for me to make my own choice. It was my opportunity to use my voice. I also knew that my vote would be private, and I didn't have to tell anyone who it was I had voted for or what decision I had made. But my faith up until that point, had never taught me to think for myself. My faith had only taught me to trust and to follow the leader.
[00:04:10] So in that moment, instead of finding freedom, I actually felt trapped by my Christianity As a self professed Christian who wanted to be a good Christian, I thought that there was only one right answer. And since I had only heard the term Antichrist used in the same sentence as Hillary Clinton's name in 2016, I voted for Donald Trump even while everything in me screamed against it.
[00:04:38] And I remember walking out of that building, the tears that I'd finally suppressed coming back again, this time with a little bit of a different feeling. And it changed me. My choice and my vote that day changed me. It was like all of a sudden this protective bubble that I lived in had popped. And for the first time, I saw how operating in blind belief made me complicit in things that looked nothing but like Jesus.
[00:05:04] Now, there are a million different ways to be a Christian. I think there are as many different ways to be a Christian as there are flavors of Dorito right now. So I'm not going to sit behind this microphone and tell you that My way is the quote, unquote, right way, because I do believe actually in the freedom of choice. It's one of the things that I'm trying to protect, even as a pastor. But I had to take a hard look at myself in the mirror and start asking myself questions about what I believed and who I was and how I lived and if all of that really lined up with the things that I said and did.
[00:05:40] So for the next few years, I had to take a step out of my pride. I had to step out of the certainty of being quote, unquote, right and good, so that I could, humbly, only in humility, do the work to change what had really become my identity.
[00:05:57] Now, maybe you're listening to this and you're not a Christian at all. Maybe the hypocrisy or of the complicity of Christians has caused you to leave the church or to walk away from your faith, or maybe you're somewhere in between because you're curious, but you're. You're cautious because you're skeptical. And I just want you to know that you still belong in this conversation because it's not really about religion, it's not really about Christianity, but it's about power and it's about identity, and it's how faith has been used and misused to shape the world that we all live in.
[00:06:31] So my goal in this isn't to convince you to believe what I believe, but it's to help you understand how Christianity has gotten so off course.
[00:06:41] There's something that I learned about called the 1 in 60 rule. Maybe you've heard of this? The 1 in 60 rule is something that pilots use in flight navigation.
[00:06:50] Basically, what it means is that by being only one degree off course, you'll end up one mile off of your intended path for every 60 miles. So if a plane takes off, right? If you're in a plane and it takes off and it gets one degree off course, no one notices. There are no alarms that go off, and it feels like you're still being headed in the right direction.
[00:07:13] But if the plane keeps going without correction, by the time it's flown 60 miles, it's one mile off course.
[00:07:21] And the longer that you fly, the further off you get. So what started as a tiny misdirection means that you're now going to land in the wrong city.
[00:07:30] And I believe this is what has happened to the church in America. American Christians have tied their identity and their allegiance to the title of Christian without thinking for themselves and blindly following wherever the authority figure is pointing.
[00:07:46] I think that we've shifted slowly and subtly, one degree at a time, toward power and protection and politics and nationalism that we didn't even notice. So we just kept letting the pilot fly without stopping to check where it was actually leading us.
[00:08:04] And now Christianity has landed somewhere far from Jesus. And I do believe that place is Christian nationalism.
[00:08:13] In the simplest of terms, Christian nationalism is a political ideology that America is a Christian nation.
[00:08:19] It basically says that being a Christian means that you're a good American, and being a good American assumes that you're a good Christian. When I explained this to the ladies in the activism group, I told them that it's almost as if, like, being an American and being a Christian are in bed together. Like our patriotism and our faith have gotten in bed together and have kind of been become this messy thing that was never intended to be so connected. Basically, it's the idea that for true Americans, they're going to protect and fight for their Christian values in political life, cultural life, and social life. And for most people, the way to do that is by voting in the quote, unquote right leaders who are going to preserve high moral values based off of what they claim when they're campaigning.
[00:09:07] Now, it's easy to identify the extreme cases, right? When people storm the capitol or when you see your neighbors wrap their cross in a flag, it's easy to look at those people and go, okay, extreme case. This is the picture of what it means to be a Christian nationalist. The problem with that is it also makes it really easy for us to deflect and go, okay, well, that's not me. This is not an ideology that I have bought into.
[00:09:33] But like a lot of other things, Christian nationalism is a spectrum. And there are a lot of stops between here and there, between what I believe Christianity was intended to be and where it has landed in Christian nationalism. And so we can get caught up in this ideology without realizing it.
[00:09:51] Here are a couple of examples of what it might look like to be somewhere in the middle. Okay, it could look like pushing for the Ten Commandments to be hung up in schools, to show that we're founded on Christian principles without asking if legislating the faith of kids is more important than showing how to actually live it out. It might mean blindly pushing for the Ten Commandments in schools because we really want faith to be present there, but not stopping to consider why we wouldn't hang or display the Beatitudes instead.
[00:10:25] It could look like a pastor who avoids talking about racism or injustice to their church or congregation because they don't want to, quote, unquote, get political.
[00:10:35] It could look like a voter who chooses a candidate based on the stance of one moral issue without considering how their policies will affect the poor or marginalized.
[00:10:46] It could look like a parent who blames taking prayer out of school for the moral decay of our country instead of admitting to the deep systemic issues that are actually at play.
[00:10:57] It could look like a person who quotes Bible verses to justify their gun ownership, but ignores the Bible verses about turning the other cheek or loving their enemies.
[00:11:07] See, this belief that we're God's chosen nation says that other countries and other people are inferior in every way and that in order to uphold us as the chosen ones and our country as number one, it justifies anything that we need to do to other countries or other people in order to uphold our position.
[00:11:32] Christian nationalism shows up and we vote for what's best for us, not the good of all people. But Jesus was never self focused. He consistently modeled how we should see and serve the vulnerable people around us. He gave up his rights for others, which is the model that Christians are meant to follow.
[00:11:50] Now, there's a lot of talk and data right now about people that are leaving Christianity and walking away from the church, but I don't think they're walking away from Jesus. I think they're walking away from a corrupted version of him. And I'm going to be honest, I don't blame them because I want nothing to do with that version of Christianity either.
[00:12:09] Now, as you're thinking about this, I'm sure you're picturing people that maybe you've engaged in conversation with. Maybe comments or commenters from social media come to mind. If you've been in my comment section, you know what I'm talking about.
[00:12:24] But I want to encourage you that you don't have to go after the extremists. I actually have a personal belief that I'm not going to waste my time, energy or voice on the extremes of either side because those people are not willing to engage in conversation.
[00:12:40] But I bet that, you know, maybe you're related to or you love someone who is somewhere on the spectrum of Christian nationalism and its ideologies.
[00:12:50] Maybe it's even someone who's realizing that the plane is going off course, but they don't know how to get off. And this is why I think it's so important for us to use our voices.
[00:13:01] I bet that there are people that, you know, maybe you are going to send this episode to them. Maybe they sent this episode to you. But I believe there are people that you know who are quietly questioning and they are slowly waking up to the cognitive dissonance of what they've always believed and what they're seeing. And for the first time, they're starting to go, I don't agree with what's happening. They're starting to recognize the differences in what they're saying and what they're seeing happen.
[00:13:31] But they're staying silent because they're afraid or they're isolated and they don't know how to start saying the things out loud. I want you to know that you might be their only safe space. You might be their confirmation that they're not crazy. And if we don't speak up and say what we see, if we don't call out the problems, and if we aren't brave and courageous enough to talk about it ourselves, then we're not going to provide that opening and that opportunity for other people who are truly isolated in their circles to have a place to process and start to move forward in a different direction.
[00:14:07] See, as a pastor of a very, very diverse church in every way imaginable, I used to get super annoyed when I would go to events that are mostly white people.
[00:14:17] Now. It's still not my ideal, but in a weird way, recently, it's actually kind of given me a lot of hope. As a middle class, cisgendered white American female, I've recognized that I have a lot of privilege and a lot of power.
[00:14:33] And the hope that I'm finding is seeing other white people with the same rights and privileges, the same freedoms that they're easily able to live out, recognizing those same things. See, because we have the most power and the most privilege to leverage, we are the ones that have to use our voices. And so I'm really glad to see other white Americans paying attention and starting to get involved, because here's what's true. It's not up to migrants to fix America's immigration problem.
[00:15:04] Racism is not a problem for people of color to fix. And it's also not up to pastors and politicians to fix Christian nationalism.
[00:15:13] Unfortunately, many of them won't speak on it because Christian nationalism somehow still upholds their position.
[00:15:21] We have the access and the relationship. We get the trust from other people who look like us. And so that means the responsibility is on us to not just know the difference between right and wrong, but to care enough to work toward righting the wrongs.
[00:15:36] So the question is, how do we speak up in a way that will make actual change? We have to do it with curiosity and with compassion and hear me say it is easier to be angry.
[00:15:49] I know I have been there. And it feels good sometimes to be angry because it gives us a place to put our blame.
[00:15:56] It feels good sometimes to have the fire of that righteous anger. But it is not sustainable and it is not transformative. Not for us and not for the other people that we're trying to be in conversation with.
[00:16:08] Anger is almost always a secondary emotion, and it comes out because it's easier, because we don't want to feel what's underneath that anger.
[00:16:18] So for you, you have to start asking the same questions. What was your turning point moment? When did you begin to care differently and decide that you wanted to get involved?
[00:16:27] You likely didn't get to this point in your faith or in your advocacy because someone screamed at you and you were like, okay, well, in that case, I changed my mind.
[00:16:37] We have to remember who we used to be and where we came from before we got here.
[00:16:43] Not because we're going back, but because we get to reach back and help bring people forward.
[00:16:49] See, curiosity disarms people. It gets them thinking about what they believe and why. And compassion opens the door to a different path.
[00:16:58] Here are a few ways curiosity and compassion can sound if you find yourself in a conversation on Christian nationalism or a variety of other things, it might sound like this.
[00:17:10] I understand why you didn't believe the things that were suspected of our leaders. Because it's easier to focus on what you want to be true.
[00:17:19] Maybe you could say it's okay if you didn't believe it would go this far this fast. And now you feel conflicted about the way people are being affected. Maybe that can lead you into a conversation.
[00:17:32] Maybe it's for you, it looks like this, which is this might be the hardest one for me, if I'm being honest.
[00:17:39] Maybe you need to say something to the effect of it's hard for me to not yearn for a version of you that I want you to be, but I want to love who you are right now.
[00:17:49] Now, none of these are excuses for bad behavior, but all of these statements can open the door to conversation much easier than challenge or criticism if you really do care about helping people get back on track.
[00:18:03] And yes, at a certain point you've likely tried and found that communication has not proven to be effective. And so there does come a point where a boundary is the best thing. And what happens with the boundary is you both agree on what is going to happen. Because boundaries are not just for the person instituting it. Boundaries are for both people. A boundary is put in place to actually protect the relationship that you do want to be able to carry forward.
[00:18:30] Now, a boundary could look as simple as, hey, this is not being productive for us, so let's agree to not talk about this topic anymore. Or maybe with a grandparent or family member, it might look like this, hey, my kids are really impressionable right now and there's a lot for them to carry. Thinking about all of the politics and things happening in the world, I would love if you didn't talk to them about this because they're not really sure how to ask questions or process.
[00:18:55] If they say, okay, then great, then you guys have established a boundary. You both can agree on what the boundary is and why, because you see the benefit to it.
[00:19:05] If not, then you might need to remind them of the boundary. And if it's still not being upheld, then at that point, maybe you need to pull back. Maybe your boundary widens where you don't spend as much time with these people, or you just make sure that you are in other environments where it's only birthday parties, or in larger groups of people where these conversations aren't as likely to happen.
[00:19:27] Again, this is a reminder that boundaries are not a punishment. And when you pull back from conversation, it's not a way to punish the other person and give them a consequence. A boundary is a way to protect the relationship that you do want to have.
[00:19:42] You also have to ask yourself personally why it is that you're in this fight. Because I will tell you, this is a fight, and that means that people are throwing punches.
[00:19:53] Last year, I was invited to speak at an event at a different church and to show up and teach the Bible to a group of women. And so, months before this event, I talked to the leadership who was hosting it and what they were looking for. I wanted to know what their audience was, where their people were, what they were thinking about, what they were struggling with, so that I could really write a strong message that would benefit them.
[00:20:17] So I wrote a message on strong women in the Bible because I was told as a group that that was something that they needed. They needed to know their identity apart from other people and who they were created to be in God. I wanted them to be encouraged as who they were, as people and as women, so that they understood that their value didn't come from being attached to their dad or their husband or their pastor.
[00:20:39] Then three hours before I was meant to be there, I got a text on my phone from a number that I didn't know. And it said, hi, I'm one of the pastors at this church. And he was letting me know that I was no longer needed for that night's event. Now, this was not the women that I had talked to who were hosting the event. This was one of the male pastors who I had never had a conversation with. But he was letting me know that I was no longer needed because something on my social media had, quote, caused division among their congregants, I. E.
[00:21:12] Someone didn't agree with the way that I had used my voice and chose to be offended by it.
[00:21:18] So for the sake of unity, I was uninvited to come and teach the Bible to the women of that church.
[00:21:28] Not long after this happened, I posted a clip of one of my sermons on social media and another pastor found her way into my comments to call me woke up. Mind you, the sermon clip that I put up had absolutely nothing to do with being woke or racism or advocacy whatsoever.
[00:21:46] I'll also let you know that Pope Leo and I agree that being called woke isn't an insult, but she definitely meant it as one when she came into my comments.
[00:21:55] Now, this time I didn't respond because I don't know about you, but being hateful out loud in the comment section doesn't feel pastoral to me. And I wasn't about to stoop to the level of name calling. But here is what I'll say to you.
[00:22:09] Standing up for what you believe is going to piss some people off. They're going to call you names. They'll tell you that you're doing it wrong and it is going to cost you. If it doesn't cost you opportunities, it will cost you relationships. If you are a Christian, they will tell you that you are twisting and misinterpreting Scripture and that you are not holding to the truth.
[00:22:29] They will tell you that you're not doing it good enough, right enough, or in the right way. They're going to do whatever they can to silence you because when you call things out, it makes them uncomfortable.
[00:22:43] To a certain extent, that is what we call a them problem.
[00:22:47] Because here is the thing. I wasn't trying to be combative in either of these situations. I didn't have a hidden agenda. I was trying to be clear in what I was doing, in peeling off the things that we've layered onto Christianity to help people see where Christianity has gone off track.
[00:23:06] But sometimes the most dangerous thing you can bring into a room is clarity, because it makes the people who would rather turn away have to look at their own complicity, white supremacy, homophobia, misogyny, nationalism, racism. All of these have lasted because the people with those ideologies have passed it down for generations in the name of Jesus, us. But it can stop. And it can stop with us. Because what's happening isn't a Christian problem, it's a human one. When faith is used to control instead of to liberate, when it's used to dominate instead of to serve, when it's used to silence instead of love, we all suffer.
[00:23:51] If you have been hurt by what someone else did in Jesus name, as a pastor, can I say to you I am so sorry. I believe that it grieves God's heart too.
[00:24:03] And if you're the one that's starting to question, even quietly, you are not alone. You don't have to keep doubling down just to belong. There are people ready to walk with you and to fight for you. Fighting for all people doesn't erase your rights and the freedoms that you have. It just restores everyone's dignity.
[00:24:24] And maybe you're realizing now that you're one of the people that caused some of the harm.
[00:24:29] I know what that weight is like. I know what it's like to carry the guilt and the regret of who you used to be and the choices and the choices that you have made in the past. Because I have been the one who got it wrong. I have been the one who stayed silent and who thought that self righteousness was the same as faith.
[00:24:51] Hear me, that doesn't define you. It doesn't define you. Who you were does not have to be who you are now. And it does not dictate who you get to be in the future.
[00:25:03] I am exhibit A. That is never too late to redirect and turn around.
[00:25:09] Transformation, after all, is kind of the whole point of true Christianity.
[00:25:15] I turned around and so can you. And yes, so even can your family members.
[00:25:21] We don't have to keep passing down what we were handed without question. We don't have to keep defending what it is that's doing damage. We need your voice, your questions, your conviction and your compassion.
[00:25:33] Don't let a corrupted version of Christianity silence you. Let it wake you up.
[00:25:38] Because the resistance doesn't need more rage. It needs brave people who are willing to take a different path with curiosity and compassion and courage. It's time for us to find a new way forward to reclaim Christianity and be the church that the world needs. But it will take all of us together, being willing to lead the way.
[00:26:01] So how do we do it right. I know that's the big question, and I have just a couple practicals for you that I'm going to give you kind of as guidelines. But I want you to sit with yourself and ask God Journal. Wrestle with these questions, think on them, and see what Holy Spirit reveals for you and what your next action step is.
[00:26:21] One of the first things that I encourage you to do is to weed out the noise for facts. Try to follow news sources that are unbiased. Some of the accounts that I prefer to follow are not on tv and they're not what you would consider mainstream media. But there are people who have set out to bring clarity in journalism without the influence of whoever is funding that outlet.
[00:26:43] Some of my favorite accounts to follow are Sharon Says so Jessica Yellen, Mo News and Women of welcome if you're wondering how to have these conversations with your kids because they're asking questions, Little Justice Leaders does a really great job of helping you facilitate conversations on all kinds of things happening in the world with your children. And Meredith Ann Miller does a great job of doing it paired with the lens of Christianity and how it ties back to to God. Those are some of my go to people.
[00:27:14] Another suggestion that I would make for you is to learn it is never too late to learn. Pantsuit Politics is run by Sarah Stewart Holland and Beth Silvers. They have a podcast called Pantsuit Politics as well as two books called I think you're wrong, but I'm listening and now what?
[00:27:33] Those books are full of practicals for you. So if you find yourself in conversations like these with your family, with your coworkers, they've got more excellent, excellent conversation starters, different language things that you can use, and other ways to navigate conflict or conversations with people around you.
[00:27:53] They've also both been on the podcast and so I will link up both of those episodes below.
[00:27:58] Other voices that I like to learn from are the Faith Adjacent podcast, where if you're watching on YouTube, you can get this Christian nationalism T shirt not for we're not advocating here, we're fighting against it. But Faith Adjacent is a podcast by Erin Moon, Evan Dodson, and Jamie golden, and they talk about why Christian nationalism matters to Christians, and they talk about relative weekly news stories and point out different places that it's popping up. Another voice I love to learn from is Latasha Morrison and her organization Be the Bridge. They come together to foster healing in a world where it's easier to cut people off and divide.
[00:28:36] So again, if you're feeling like everyone is being siloed or these divisions and these ideologies are costing you your relationships. I encourage you to go to be the bridge and learn to foster love and forgiveness and understanding.
[00:28:52] I also encourage you to learn from professors like Esau McCauley and Jamar Tisby and Beth Allison Barr, who are really bringing history and education into, from the academic space, into ways that we can understand as, you know, just regular people.
[00:29:08] Jared Stacy is another person that I love to learn from because he has a focus specifically on conspiracy theories and how people can get pulled into these narrow beliefs.
[00:29:19] So as you're learning. So a lot of those are voices that I like to learn from as I'm trying to build my own knowledge. So I've got talking points and speaking points and I feel like I can show up confidently knowing what I'm talking about.
[00:29:32] But another way of learning is to listen to other people's perspectives.
[00:29:36] For me, a really big part of doing the work was to listen to other people's lived experiences. Now, it doesn't mean that I have to understand where they're coming from. It doesn't mean that I have to agree with where they're coming from. Listening to someone else doesn't change you any more than, I don't know, listening to my dog bark turns me into a shih tzu poodle. Like, it just doesn't work that way. But listening to other people's perspective will grow empathy and compassion. Empathy and compassion are huge in helping people to understand why they need to care about other people and why they need to care about things that don't necessarily affect them, at least in that moment.
[00:30:19] Instead of resting on our privilege, it's empathy and compassion that will keep us going very plainly. I'll just say it like this. If you're white, you need to follow bipoc voices. You need to listen to people that are black, brown, indigenous, from all different cultures and backgrounds that you don't understand or maybe have never been able to see through their lens or their perspective. If you're a Christian, you need to listen to people who have left Christianity so that you know why. And it's not with a secret agenda to try to convert them back.
[00:30:51] It's just in listening to understand.
[00:30:54] I also think once you get to a place where you're pretty confident in your understanding and you're pretty confident in what you believe and why, I would encourage you to maybe even listen to a few voices from the other side just so that you know where they're coming from again, not because you need to agree with them, but so that when you're in conversation and you start to hear these same phrases or these same sound bites, you'll see what, where it is that they're learning these things from. You'll understand how it's being passed down to them and you can kind of help them start to unravel the truth that's underneath but been buried.
[00:31:31] People that I've loved to listen to and learn from are Jasmine Crockett, Kevin Wilson, who is also known as the Try Guy, Reverend Joe Ash Thomas and Blair Imani.
[00:31:42] Once you kind of do all of this work, you need to find your people. And this can be one of the trickiest things because you can learn on your own. You can listen to other people technically on your own if you're reading books and listening to podcasts and following them on social media. But community in this fight, community in this movement is so, so important.
[00:32:03] So I would encourage you to try to find a local church or if that's really tricky, another community.
[00:32:09] The group that I spoke to the when I first talked about Christian nationalism is called Lake Norman Troublemakers. And so if you're in Charlotte, they're a advocacy group but they are under a much larger national organization called Red Wine and Blue. So look them up and see if there's a chapter near you that where you can get involved.
[00:32:29] Also, while it's not ideal, there is also something to be said about community online and knowing that there are other people that are like minded going through and seeing the same things you're seeing fighting for the same things you're fighting for, being upset and angry and burdened by the same things that you're being burdened by.
[00:32:48] Now remember the point of this is not to silo yourself. That's not what we want to do. We don't only want to be in silos of like minded people, but when you hit resistance, when the fight hits you back, you are going to need encouragement to keep going. You are going to need someone to remind you that you are not crazy and that you are not alone. And there are so many people out there.
[00:33:13] Some of my favorites are Shannon Martin. Shannon always reminds us to find our counterweights so that when we start to get overwhelmed, she reminds us to look for the little places of goodness and things that are popping up. Reverend Ben Kramer, Pastor Joe Smith, our other Christian leaders that I love to connect to that feel like my people. Their words always and often tied back to scripture. Hey, here's what Jesus said. Here's how we should see this playing Out. Here's what Jesus said. Here's how we're not seeing this played out, and that's why it's a problem.
[00:33:45] These are also great pastors to learn from. Mindy Summers is another one who really has her eyes open and her heart tender for the world.
[00:33:53] I would also love to be part of, quote, unquote, your people. If you're like, I don't know where to begin. Somehow you found this podcast, you found this episode, and I would love to come alongside you and encourage you and support you. You can DM me, you can process. We can talk as best to my ability, as best as I can. I would love to engage you in this and also be able to maybe point you to some other people.
[00:34:18] There are so many of us out here. Truly, I promise you. I know that you might feel alone and I know that at times you feel crazy. I know, because that's probably the number one DM that I get on Instagram is thank you for saying this. I thought I was the only one. Thank you for saying this. I wish my pastor was saying this. Thank you for saying this. Where can I find a church like Mosaic near me?
[00:34:40] I promise you're not crazy, and I promise you're not alone. Just because one opinion is the loudest or seems to have the most control or power doesn't mean that it's truly the majority, and it doesn't mean that it's right.
[00:34:54] Follow some or all of the people that I've mentioned. Find the ones that feel like you. And in the comment section, drop your names. Let us know of the people that you're learning from and listening from. The people that have helped you kind of move out of maybe a narrow version of Christianity into a much bigger, broader, more beautiful version of living out what it is that Jesus has called us to.
[00:35:17] Keep learning, keep praying and keep hoping. Keep holding on to hope. I genuinely believe that we can reclaim Christianity and what it was meant to be. As we come together, eyes on Jesus, doing the best we can to live out the model that he gave us in his own life. And that's how we'll reclaim the church and Christianity as Jesus intended.
[00:35:38] I would love to hear your thoughts on this episode on Christian nationalism and let me know the conversations that you're having. Let me know the walls that you're hitting. Maybe we can do another kind of, I don't know, live Q and A or something as a part two or a follow up. Reach out to me on social media at KristenMockler Young I am technically on Facebook, although I don't go there a lot. I am kind of on TikTok if you want to meet me there, but I tend to live on Instagram and I would love for you to join me there as we find our people and do this together.
[00:36:13] Until next time, thank you so much for listening and keep becoming the church to the people around you.
