Kari Esmail: Fun Because

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:10] Speaker B: Welcome to Becoming Church, the podcast where we discuss how the message and movement of Jesus is not just about becoming Christians, but about becoming the church. I'm your host, Kristin Mockler Young, and our guest today is going to take us by the hand and walk us back to the best parts of childhood. Her name is Carrie Esmail, and she is a fine. Yes, I said a fun coach. Not a life coach, but a fun coach. Carrie's goal is to help us live life to the fullest. As Jesus said, we were created to do in a way that doesn't add tasks to our to do list, but instead helps us to find fun in what we're already doing. Here's my conversation with Carrie. Carrie, welcome to Becoming Church. [00:00:55] Speaker A: Thank you so much for having me here. I'm very excited. [00:00:58] Speaker B: Me, too. Listen, I was really thrilled that you agreed to come on because we try to have fun, right? I try to have fun and like a lot of things that I do here, but lately it's felt like the podcast topics have been, I don't know, a little heavier or a little bit more deep. And I'm so excited for you to be here and just bring a little levity to people that just need to, like, smile or laugh or have some fun. [00:01:22] Speaker A: So, yeah, thank you. And we all need that because we live in a world that is heavy and we are constantly aware of all the heaviness that's happening all across the world. So we need that lightness. [00:01:37] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I agree. And we are going to. I have your book right here. It's called Fun because we're going to talk about this. We're going to jump into it in just a second. But first, Carrie, I want people to get to know you a little bit. So we're going to do a quick, like, fun Q A. So I pulled some fun phrases and I used those to kind of figure out these. These quick fire questions for you. So you know the phrase, like, just for fun. What's something that you love to do that other people maybe don't? [00:02:06] Speaker A: The first thing that comes to mind is poetry. Not that there's not a whole population that, like, doesn't love poetry, but most people wouldn't classify that as fun. [00:02:16] Speaker C: Okay. [00:02:17] Speaker A: Because it's very moody and emotional. But for me, it is fun. Like the art of words is fun. And expressing myself and just exploring the inner world is a very fun thing for me. [00:02:29] Speaker C: Okay. [00:02:30] Speaker B: Do you get to practice it often? [00:02:31] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:02:32] Speaker B: Oh, good. [00:02:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:02:34] Speaker C: Good, good. Okay. [00:02:35] Speaker B: How about a fun, like, quote unquote, red flag what's something that, on the opposite, that most people think is fun, but you're like, no, thank you so much. [00:02:43] Speaker C: Yes. [00:02:43] Speaker A: Okay, so the most stereotypical things that are fun for people, generally, the things that first come up are the ones that, for the introvert, are not as fun. So games, competition, and anything that involves mingling with strangers, which is oftentimes parties. And those are like the fun things. And for me, I'm like, I'm good. Okay. [00:03:04] Speaker B: I'm like, wait, you built a whole brand, you built a whole, like, business on parties and mingling with strangers? [00:03:11] Speaker A: I know, right? I mean, yes and no. Like, that is what. That's what it looks like and that's what it is for a lot of people. [00:03:19] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:03:19] Speaker A: But I. For me, it's been such a different journey. And that's one of the reasons I feel so called to be in this role, because there are a lot of people who automatically assume that being fun is for extroverts and for the people who really love to go to the parties. And it's part of our nature and everybody has a different way that they connect with that. Okay. [00:03:41] Speaker B: I don't think I. You would consider yourself an introvert. [00:03:45] Speaker A: You know, I think we're all a ratio. [00:03:47] Speaker B: Yeah, sure, for sure of both. [00:03:49] Speaker A: But I would say I'm 60 to 70% introverted. That is crucial time for me. How about you? [00:03:57] Speaker B: I am mostly extroverted, but I am finding as I get older, and maybe it's like the longer that I've been in ministry, because I'm forever around people that I'm like, I really do need my time to be alone, just to kind of like recharge and think sometimes. So I'm finding that more. [00:04:14] Speaker C: More and more. [00:04:15] Speaker B: All right, how about the phrase it's all fun and games until what's something that you thought was like, fluffy and. But you got into it and then you found it to be like, actually deeper, more meaningful. [00:04:27] Speaker A: Everything. Okay. [00:04:29] Speaker B: Every. [00:04:30] Speaker A: Yes. Okay. So there's a great recent example of this. Now when I say everything, I mean any kind of fun that we have, there is profound insight and awareness and stuff to learn inside of it. You just have to look for it. So this week's example of that is my husband Alex and I went rock climbing for the first time and we kind of thought it was going to be the real kind where you go all the way up and repel down and all the things. And it was just bouldering. We. Which is climbing. So it's like, it's a shorter wall and there's padding on the floor, and you climb until you can't, and then you fall down. Oh, yes. And that can be, you know, you. You can fall from kind of high up or not. [00:05:18] Speaker C: Ah, okay. [00:05:20] Speaker A: So the first thing they do, I mean, this is something that I haven't ever done before, and I really want to get into the hobby because it just, it. It calls to me in this season. And the first thing that they have you do is they just walk you right up to the wall and say, okay, I need you to do a fall test where you're supposed to fall down and, like, roll onto your back instead of try to catch yourself with your hands, because obviously you can break your wrist that way. So me, I throw myself into things, and Alex has done this before. I have not. So I'm like, okay, I'll go first. The first time, I fall directly back on my wrist, like, you're not supposed to naturally. And he's like, I'm gonna need you to do that again. And so I do it again. And the second time, I'm stiff as the board, and I just kind of fall back and, like, knock my head off the ground. And I'm like, did I do it? And then they're just kind of looking at me, and it's. It's a crowded gym full of people. It's absolutely an embarrassing moment, but I'm like, whatever, we're here for it. And then I watch Alex go, and he's so soft and graceful, and I realized I was kind of missing the whole land on your feet, bend at your knees, and then roll. I just kind of like, think straight to my back. [00:06:27] Speaker C: Yes. [00:06:28] Speaker A: And so between that moment of watching him and being like, oh, I should have let him go first so I could. Because he knows what he's doing. [00:06:34] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:06:35] Speaker A: And then watching everybody else in the gym climb the same patterns we were following and just taking notes from them and seeing how much there is to learn. It was a reminder that we don't always have to struggle through trial and error. And that's part of it. And I'm. I usually learn that way, but for me, that self insight just from that one hour of rock climbing was, hey, take a beat and. And look around and allow yourself to learn through others lived experiences before you just throw yourself into the deep end. [00:07:10] Speaker B: I love that you came away with that insight. And even like you. You said a minute ago, right. If you weren't looking to learn something, if you weren't like, what can I take away from this experience? I won't speak for you. If it was me and I wasn't looking for it, I just would have walked away, like, po'd that I fell and I did it wrong, and I embarrassed myself, and I would have just, like, walked away with a hurt pride and called it, like, a failure. And I would have said this was no fun at all. [00:07:36] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. And at first, that's what it was. Yes. And you do. And that's the thing. And that's part of. Part of the whole thing is just looking. Looking at what there is to learn about yourself, what there is to take away. Because when you do, that's how. That's how fun becomes a tool. Right there. [00:07:52] Speaker C: Yeah. Oh, that's good. [00:07:53] Speaker B: And we will get into that more. All right, so the next phrase is, are we having fun yet? What's something that you always say yes to? Don't have to think about it. You're like, I'm in every time travel. [00:08:05] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [00:08:06] Speaker A: I over commit, and I'm just coming out of a season like this so hard. And Alex and I will just have these months or seasons where we just are sprinting and traveling consistently for multiple trips in a month. And then at the end, we're like, what are we doing? We're, like, barely enjoying this anymore. Let's slow down, get back into routine. So. But I'm an explorer. I don't know about you. And just. That is how I play the most. [00:08:35] Speaker C: Okay. [00:08:35] Speaker A: So it's hard to say no to, you know? [00:08:37] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:08:37] Speaker B: And there are always new places to go explore that you haven't been, I'm sure. [00:08:42] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:08:42] Speaker C: All right. [00:08:43] Speaker B: What's your guilty pleasure? As in something that maybe you used to feel guilty about doing, but you don't anymore? [00:08:51] Speaker A: Definitely staying up late at night and sleeping in on the daily. [00:08:57] Speaker C: Okay. [00:08:58] Speaker B: Because that's just. Do you find your creative space at night or, like, what. What is it? [00:09:04] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I've always been a night owl. I've always just come alive at night, found the inspiration at nighttime. And I've been in charge of my own schedule for eight years now. And it wasn't until about a year and a half ago that I said, why don't I just do. Why don't I just do that? Why don't I follow my own natural rhythm? And, yeah, it's been a big shift because there's a lot of stigma around waking up early and what that means related to success and hard work. So it's been a lot of unraveling, conditioning. But for me, it allows Me to enjoy my life more a. And be way more productive and proactive. [00:09:51] Speaker C: Good. [00:09:52] Speaker B: And I'm glad that you have been able to let go of the guilt around that, too, because no one needs to carry that about anything. [00:09:58] Speaker A: No. [00:09:59] Speaker B: All right, last quick fire question for you. I want to know your childlike wonder, the thing that makes you feel like a kid, like, in the best way, when you're doing it. [00:10:10] Speaker A: Song and dance, I think is timeless, but the other thing that comes up is playing in nature. [00:10:20] Speaker C: Okay. [00:10:20] Speaker A: So I like to go to a place, park with a friend or with Alex, and kick a soccer ball and bring a speaker and look at the sky and have a little picnic and just have some blank space to just be there and. And be present. That feels really childlike for me. [00:10:40] Speaker B: Yeah, blank space. I know. I'm just picturing. I'm like, that really is the difference between childhood to now, and I guess depending on people are listening, the ages of their kids and their kids as, you know, accessibility. But, like, my kids don't have phones yet, so they have that blank space to play. Like, they don't have to worry about time management or schedule or routine or when they've got to stop to be. They just get to, like, go until I reel them back in. [00:11:04] Speaker A: You know, you're right. And that is such a great insight from a mother. Like, that is the main difference between being a child and being an adult. [00:11:12] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:11:13] Speaker B: But as we're going to learn from you today, we can. We can find space for that again. So you've got your book. Like I said, I've got it right here. For people watching on YouTube. It's called a fun because how to Succeed without the Hustle and Carrie, I want to start right there with what kind of success you're talking about, because as someone who very much loves fun, I do love fun. But if there's ever an option for me to succeed at something, I'm jumping over the fun and choosing the outcome because I am an achiever and I want to achieve things. So what is the success that you're talking about in your. In your tagline here? [00:11:51] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm talking about the stereotypical success of reaching the milestones, the achievements, having the financial freedom that we all long for. Maybe it's having the big house. Maybe it's really directly related to your career and where you want to go with that and the impact that you want to make. But I'm actually, surprisingly not really in this context, talking about the holistic version of success where it is about your Family and your friends and all the balance. I'm talking about that success that everybody's chasing. Because the idea here is that hustle is one way to get there, but it's not the only way. [00:12:31] Speaker C: Okay. [00:12:31] Speaker A: And that, yeah, that journey at this point in time in the world doesn't require as much pain and suffering and sacrifice as it historically has. It's all about your mental capacity, your cognitive function, your ability to think creatively and just kind of work smarter, not harder. And that's not really done in being willing to put in these long hours, which is what it used to be. So we're coming out of that. In this digital age and this age of AI, we're also kind of competing with AI. So it's about nurturing the mind and the fun really accomplishes that in ways that the hustle and grind cannot. [00:13:13] Speaker B: So basically, you're not telling people to change course. You're saying you can still get to the same outcome, you can still get to the same place, achieve the same successes, but just going about getting there, you just take a different path to get there. [00:13:27] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. It's an alternative pathway, and in my eyes, it is the ultimate win win of all time because you become more present, you enjoy your life, you. You get to have fun and enjoy the journey and actually kind of accelerate your. Your pathway to those things that you want to accomplish in life. So it's a both and situation. [00:13:49] Speaker C: Got it. [00:13:50] Speaker B: Well, at the beginning of your book, you talk about a previous version of you, you know, that you said you were like, weighed down and far from fun and laughter and not feeling like there was any time to have fun because you couldn't. Didn't even have enough time to like, manage all the things you wanted to do. And I know a lot of people listening are like, yeah, that's. I can relate. That's my life. I know it's not as simple as just like, okay, snap your fingers, change your mindset, you know, so how did you do it? How did you move from where you were to like, where you are now? [00:14:21] Speaker A: Yeah, well, there was the rock bottom of burnout. When you're just. I know we've all felt this. When you're absolutely fried and you're kind of just shriveled up on the floor is what it feels like energetically. Like you have nothing left to give. And even when you try to rest and you try to fill your cup, it's just still not enough. Yeah, that's a scary place to be. It's a terrible feeling. And for Me, my personal breakthrough was getting a puppy because. And I say that he, I call him my angel because he really was, in the most unexpected way, just kind of like dropped down from God, like, place into my lap. And he was the awakening that, you know, helped me realize the fun. Enjoying life and being joyful was what was lacking that had completely fallen through the cracks. And I kind of just had this, this, you know, moment of divine intervention where the Lord made it really clear to me that I stopped prioritizing connection with other human beings. I stopped playing and I stopped using my creative nature. And as a result, there was burnout. And there was just a lot of, like, my. My career progress had really slowed down and become very frustrating. [00:15:41] Speaker C: Okay. [00:15:41] Speaker A: So that was my breakthrough. And then the shift was not in really making the time. And it became that over time, but at first it was really just about changing my approach to everyday life. [00:15:55] Speaker B: Okay, talk to me more about that. Like a mind, like a mindset. Mindset shift kind of. [00:16:01] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:16:01] Speaker B: What did that look like for you? [00:16:04] Speaker A: Yeah. So for me and for a lot of the women that I've worked with, step number one is just taking a more enjoyable approach to things that feel really mundane and sometimes daunting. [00:16:18] Speaker C: Okay. [00:16:18] Speaker A: And we call this funnifying the thing. Funnifying the task. Funny. Find your life. I also like to use the term fun sandwich because my clients will be like, I really don't want to do this thing. And I'm like, how can we funify it? How can we turn it into a fun sandwich? Like, do something that really lights you up right before, and then infuse some kind of playfulness while you're doing the thing. And then give yourself an incentive with something you really enjoy afterwards. And then boom, it comes. Comes goes from being this daunting thing to this thing that you actually kind of get to be excited about. And it. It feels a lot lighter and you're a lot more open minded and it just all the way around goes better. [00:16:58] Speaker B: Okay, so. So you're not asking people to make big changes at first it's just like, hey, basically look for the fun in what you have to do already anyway. How could we just look at it differently? [00:17:10] Speaker A: That's where it starts. [00:17:11] Speaker C: Okay. [00:17:11] Speaker A: And then with time, as you. As that shift kind of compounds you do it, you start to actually see that there is space to make time for the hobbies and the other things. But that can be overwhelming to start with. [00:17:28] Speaker B: Oh, totally. If you told me right now like, hey, pick up a hobby and make time for it every week I'd be like, thanks, Carrie. Gotta go. [00:17:34] Speaker A: Like, it's. Yeah, it's been fun. Yeah. It's not that simple. Yeah, exactly. And that's the thing is it's so counterproductive to just kind of think that that's the only way to do it and force yourself into that. So it starts small. [00:17:49] Speaker C: Okay, well. [00:17:50] Speaker B: And I would imagine too, fun is kind of like in the eye of the beholder. Like it's connected to self expression or personality. So what's fun for you might not be fun for me or. Right. Do you come up with that when you're. When you're working with your clients? [00:18:04] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. [00:18:05] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:18:06] Speaker A: That's the whole thing. And there's a wonderful tool that just says so much more than I could ramble on about. It's the eight play personality types by play researcher Stuart Brown. [00:18:19] Speaker C: Okay. [00:18:20] Speaker A: And it really gives perspective on the fact that everybody plays and has fun differently. And it gives you permission to do the thing that you find fun instead of trying to, you know, pigeonhole yourself into going to the party or playing a game. [00:18:35] Speaker C: Right. [00:18:36] Speaker A: You know, so do you want to run through them? [00:18:39] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:18:39] Speaker B: And then tell me what you. And I took the quiz. [00:18:42] Speaker A: You took it. [00:18:43] Speaker B: So I can tell you what mine is too. [00:18:44] Speaker C: But yeah. [00:18:44] Speaker A: Oh, I'm excited to hear yours. [00:18:46] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:18:46] Speaker A: Okay, perfect. So, first one. And it's always a test of my memory to go through all eight, but I think we got it. Okay, first one, the Joker. People who love comedy, practical jokes, just being silly and goofy. So I think of the people who make the funniest, weirdest, most creative tiktoks. [00:19:06] Speaker C: Yes. [00:19:07] Speaker A: You know those. [00:19:08] Speaker B: The one that we all just pass around. [00:19:09] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:19:10] Speaker A: Yes, yes. The one that. Yeah, exactly. So we've got the joker, we've got the creator, which are the people who just love to create in any way, shape or form. Could be baking, cooking, art, writing, all of the above. [00:19:23] Speaker C: Okay. [00:19:24] Speaker A: The kinesteat, which is the people who love movement. So these are typically, you know, just if you feel like you need to move to think this is probably you. So our ADHD people oftentimes resonate with this. [00:19:41] Speaker C: Okay. [00:19:43] Speaker A: So movement based. And then we've got the collector, which is kind of self explanatory, but it's a little bit more than you think. It's not just collecting items. It can also be collecting fun facts or just really anything that you like to geek out about and then share with others that would make you a collector. [00:20:02] Speaker C: Okay. [00:20:04] Speaker A: And then we've got the Explorer, those who love adventure, novelty, having new experiences. And this can come in the form of exploring the physical world around you and exploring internally. So if you're somebody who really loves to learn about, I don't know, anything by reading books, listening to podcasts, that falls in the explorer category. [00:20:27] Speaker C: Okay. [00:20:29] Speaker A: And then we've got the director, which is the group of people who love to host and create experiences for other people. [00:20:40] Speaker C: Okay. [00:20:41] Speaker A: And then we've got one more. Ooh, it's sticking in my brain. [00:20:47] Speaker B: I think I know what it is because I think it's mine. [00:20:50] Speaker A: Yes. [00:20:50] Speaker B: You got it. Competitive one. Is that the. Is that the last one? [00:20:54] Speaker A: Yes. And no wonder I forgot, because that is, like, the last one. One on my list. I'm not that at all, but exactly that. People who enjoy competition. [00:21:02] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [00:21:03] Speaker B: And can you be more than one? [00:21:06] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. And I think we. A lot of people are resonate with, like, all of them, and then some are just one or two. It just. It just depends on who you are. But I'm like two, primarily the explorer and the creator. And so you. You're the competitor. And what else? [00:21:24] Speaker B: I think the one. The. Right before it, you said that, like, hosts and likes to create environments for people. My husband and I are. He is a fantastic host. I think I'm a pretty good hostess. But, like, together we love to, like, have people over and think of all the details and create the environment where people can then come in and have fun, whether it's conversation or food or whatever it is, you know? [00:21:46] Speaker A: And that is. That's such a great one to be. Because it fosters that connection. [00:21:50] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:21:50] Speaker A: At the same time. And you can create memories that way. That's just. That's special. [00:21:55] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:21:56] Speaker B: And I'm curious to see what our kids grow into, too. You know, we've got two daughters, and I'm curious to see, like, right. Right now, I could maybe guess. But also I'm like, their personalities change so much. Of course they're moving their bodies because they're just so full of energy. But it might not always be that way. [00:22:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:12] Speaker C: You know. [00:22:13] Speaker A: Yeah. That's going to be cool to see how it unfolds. [00:22:16] Speaker B: I also feel like, Carrie, this quiz kind of changed my definition of what fun is. I've been told, and at first I was offended by this, but I was told that I have a very high bar for fun. And the more I thought about it, I was like, I really do. And I've tried to, like, pull that down because for me, it was like, if I'm not like, belly laughing, crying, laughing, like, leaving with my face hurting. Then I wouldn't call it fun. And somebody would be like, that was so fun. Right? And I'm like, yeah. I mean, it was. It was a good time, but I wouldn't call it. I wouldn't call it fun. And I think I was like, setting myself up for, I don't know, missing a lot of this stuff. [00:22:59] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, that's a great insight. How. How would you say you were defining fun? [00:23:05] Speaker B: Like, I said it had to be like, the most ultimate. Like, if it wasn't like, the best trip of my life or like the most fun dinner or like, there was no lull. Everything was just fun and funny. It was for a lot of it, for me was like, laughter. If I wasn't like, laughing the whole time, then it wasn't fun, you know, which is not true. And so I like, like, actually this quiz and the different types because it helps me to see. No, reading a book actually can be fun because fun can be more. So much more encompassing than what I thought it was. [00:23:39] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Do you know your enneagram type? [00:23:44] Speaker C: I do. [00:23:44] Speaker B: I'm a three. [00:23:46] Speaker A: You're a three. Which one is that? [00:23:48] Speaker B: That is the achiever or the like. So achieving success, leaders, performance, all of that. [00:23:57] Speaker A: Okay. Yep, got it. I was curious to see if you were going to say seven. [00:24:02] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:24:03] Speaker A: Because seven is, you know, like the fun extravaganza person. But yeah, I'm really glad you had that insight because it kind of opens up a whole new world. [00:24:14] Speaker C: Right. [00:24:15] Speaker A: For what? What gets to be fun and what gets to fill your cup? [00:24:18] Speaker B: Well, it's like you said that step one of shifting up your perspective. I think I just was, like, really limiting myself instead of going like, no, I just. Because it wasn't the best conversation ever or like the most fun thing ever doesn't mean that I can't call it fun. Like, I think I was stealing joy out of my own life without even. [00:24:39] Speaker A: Realizing it, you know, that is such a good point. And I think I bet a lot of people do that. [00:24:46] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:24:46] Speaker B: Maybe. [00:24:47] Speaker A: Because there's the side of it where there's the other end of the spectrum where sometimes I have to catch myself and remind myself of exactly what we're talking about. Where sometimes when I start working with women, they will pick up the book and be like, that's what's fun for me. I'm going to do that. And. And sometimes I want to push them a little bit farther. And it's like, oh, but like what? What else? Like, how can we get you laughing? How can we get that inner child to come out to play? Because that's also what it's about. But everyone's at a different place. Everyone starts at a different place. It's also a journey. Like, it's one to evolve. So for you, it's kind of evolving from the other side, where it was so extreme and now it gets to be simple. And for some people, it starts really small and simple, and then it becomes more extreme with time. [00:25:32] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:25:32] Speaker B: Oh, that's a good point. [00:25:34] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:25:34] Speaker B: Well, I mean, and then if you think about it, I've never thought about play before, but I'm like, yeah, if you think about it, like, I guess that's true. Like anything else, you know? [00:25:44] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. [00:25:46] Speaker B: So you break it down in the book into. You have a. Your three elements of fun, connection, play, and creativity. Do you want to just, like, run through each of those really quick? [00:25:55] Speaker A: Yeah. So are we talking about the ways that the book breaks down? How to connect, how to play, how to create. [00:26:03] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:26:05] Speaker A: Okay. So there's like three tools or what I call fun levers within each category of fun. In connection, we've got Stranger Connection, New Connection, and Childlike Connection. So stranger connection is exactly what it sounds like. It's engaging in warm and friendly interactions with strangers. And this is a very strategic tool to regulate the nervous system and bring your stress levels down. And then there's New Connection, which is just taking a more authentic and fun focused approach to connecting with new people and building new relationships. [00:26:39] Speaker C: Okay. [00:26:39] Speaker A: And then childlike connection is creating a safe space with the people you're close to to let your inner child out to play together. [00:26:51] Speaker B: Like letting your guard down a little bit. [00:26:54] Speaker A: Yes. I mean, and sometimes it's really doing childlike things, and it's very healing, and it builds really strong relationships. [00:27:00] Speaker B: And it also takes humility. Don't you think that one especially takes so much humility? [00:27:05] Speaker A: Yeah, it really, really does. When I started practicing this, you know, in the role that I'm in, it's. I'm the leader, so it's my job to be silly first. [00:27:15] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:27:17] Speaker A: And it's hard, but, man, is it liberating. [00:27:21] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:27:23] Speaker A: So those are the ones that live in connection. And then in the category of play, we've got play breaks and play infusion and play priming and play parallels. So I'll try to keep it short and succinct here. Play breaks is when you take a break from the heavy work to do something that Gets you really immersed in just a present moment of enjoyment. So this is a dance party to shake it out. A hula hoop, a playing like an animal with your pet, that kind of stuff. [00:27:54] Speaker C: Okay. [00:27:55] Speaker A: Play infusion is kind of what I was talking about earlier, which is just infusing playfulness and enjoyment into monotonous things. So the way my office is decorated is that for me, perfect. It makes it enjoyable for me to walk in, sit down, do the work. [00:28:11] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:28:12] Speaker A: Play Priming is when you intentionally play before you do. Before you go into focus mode or do something really creative. So you're priming your mind to basically think outside the box. [00:28:24] Speaker C: Huh. Okay. [00:28:25] Speaker A: Mm. And then play Parallels. This is one of my favorite things is when you identify a way that you want to grow and then you. Instead of just. This is often work related or just in areas of life that are more serious instead of just doing that there. So if my thing is public speaking, I want to get better at that instead of just booking more speaking engagements or going to a Toastmasters, which is kind of a dry and serious environment for me. Poetry is my thing. I'm going to practice that by going to open mics and doing my art. So you're practicing the thing. You're flexing whatever muscle you want to grow and strengthen in a fun, playful place where there's low stakes. Okay. [00:29:11] Speaker B: Play. So play. I'm like, suck on. Play priming. So basically that's the idea. Like play first because it's going to help you actually to then use your brain in the way that you need to use your brain. [00:29:22] Speaker A: Yeah. Which feels really powerful tool. [00:29:25] Speaker B: I feel like I need to like wait and save play for my reward. Like when I do the thing, then I get to have fun. But you're saying to do it the other way. [00:29:33] Speaker A: Exactly. And that's what's unconventional about it. Because we've been just trained and told our whole lives that your enjoyment is the reward. I mean, going back to school you. If you get good grades, you can go out on the weekends. Yeah, Right, right. And if you, if you do all, if you do the math and science, then you can prioritize the extracurricular. [00:29:54] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:29:55] Speaker A: And that's what we're kind of unraveling because when we're in that playful state. State, so many really cool things happen physiologically and psychologically that allow us to think more creatively and be more productive and just work smarter, not harder. [00:30:15] Speaker C: Okay. Huh. [00:30:17] Speaker B: It's like the science of play. [00:30:20] Speaker A: Yeah. It's really cool. It's really cool. If Anyone listening wants to learn about that. Specifically, the book Play by Stuart Brown, researcher, is very enlightening to the science of it all. [00:30:34] Speaker C: Awesome. Yeah. [00:30:35] Speaker B: And the last one, your last element of fun, is creativity. [00:30:39] Speaker A: Yes. So there's three tools in there. [00:30:41] Speaker C: Okay. [00:30:41] Speaker A: First one being create more than you consume. I think we can all relate to the way that social media and even just any kind of content consumption, including books and podcasts, that you're reading to learn and grow. As a human being, we absorb so much information everywhere, and it really can kind of clog up our own creativity and our own inspiration. So picking up some habits are really just starting with limiting the screen time and what you're consuming to make space first and foremost for that connection to creativity. [00:31:16] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:31:17] Speaker A: And then to take that to the next level. The next tool is just for fun hobbies, and it falls in the hobby bucket. But the whole idea here specifically is to do something where there's no restrictions or expectations for anything that you're creating or doing to be good. Because we live in a world and just, you know, part of the human condition is always feeling like we're not good enough. [00:31:44] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:31:44] Speaker A: And we live in a world that's telling us to do more and be better all the time. And so giving yourself that space for free play, to just express yourself with no expectations, no attachment to the outcome, will reignite your spark with creativity. [00:32:00] Speaker B: Well, and I think it connects us back to, like, God. God is the ultimate creator. Right. Like, God created, yes, the world and all the things, but God also created us. And so I think when we can create, I like to create sometimes certain things, but when I am creating is when I actually feel, like, a connection to God sometimes, because I'm like, well, God. God did this first. Like, he, you know, made little. Made us out of, like, little play. D'oh. People and, like, created us out of nothing. And so when we can create something out of nothing, too, it just is a reminder of God is a creator. And so it's kind of a reflection of him and that part of him in us that allows us then to be creative enough to create something else. [00:32:46] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. I think that our creative nature is the thing that most clearly reflects that we are made in God's image. [00:32:55] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:32:55] Speaker A: We call. I mean, he is the creator of all that is. And we have that spirit in us, and it's important to make a space for it. And then that kind of brings us to the very last tool, which I call Stop, drop, and Flow. Because when you get that inspiration, it's really Important to. To let it move through you, let it take you somewhere in the moment. And sometimes that comes through as curiosity. Maybe you turn your head at something and you're like, what's it? What's in that new. I don't even know that new yoga studio or something like that. Or you have an idea. It's important to explore that in the moment because there's something. I mean, it's not something. It's. It's God. Like, it's God kind of like reaching down and putting his hands, like in your mind, body, soul, and trying to do something through you. So stop, drop, flow. See where that takes you? [00:33:47] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:33:48] Speaker B: And that too. It's the other side of it. Right. Like, we were created to be creators. But then I love how you just said it. It is. It's God working in us to go, hey, like, for me, when God. I feel like holy Spirit is like, I need you to create something, is when God is like, I need you to slow down. Like, I need you to pump the brakes for a minute and remember, I mean, this is such a cliche phrase sometimes, but that I'm a human being and not a human doing, you know, and it's. It's only through player or creating sometimes that I can remember, know who I am first and foremost as a child of God, somebody who is loved by God regardless of what I do or don't do, achieve or don't achieve, you know? [00:34:33] Speaker A: Absolutely, Absolutely. Creativity is so. It helps you connect to yourself, helps you connect to the Lord, helps you connect to your purpose, help you. Helps you connect and be aware of what your path. But the path that he has for you, it just kind of recalibrates you with all of those things. And it's crazy how it works. I really. It's kind of. I. I consider it something. Creativity to be on the other side, like on God's side. I mean, he's here, he's all around us. He's in us. And yet at the same time, it's. Our human minds can only fathom and understand so much of it. [00:35:05] Speaker B: Right? [00:35:05] Speaker C: Totally. [00:35:06] Speaker A: And in the way that creativity works, in the ways that it's healing and how it moves through us and redirects us is all very divine. It's very godly. [00:35:17] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:35:18] Speaker B: So would you consider fun to be holy? Would you say, like, fun is a holy thing? [00:35:24] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:35:25] Speaker C: Okay. [00:35:27] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, it's part of our design, unmistakably. Because connection is love, obviously. There is no love without connection. We know that God is love. We look at How Jesus walked. And love is the whole point. It's the center of the whole universe. It's what makes the world go round. So there's that. And then we look at how natural players, first of all for children and it's part of our development, but not just that, like for adults as well. I think song and dance are a great example. And laughter, I mean biblically, that's probably in there countless times. It's part of worship. It's part of so many different things that will never go away no matter how old we get. And then creativity, like I said before, I think it's the most obvious way that we are made in God's image. I mean we are all creative by nature and that comes through in different forms and it makes us so unique as individuals. And then it connects us. Yeah, it connects us so many different things. So for that reason, I think it's totally holy. [00:36:32] Speaker C: Yeah, me too. [00:36:33] Speaker B: I love it. Well, and I think depending on how people listening were raised, maybe what their church background was or how, for lack of a better term, like legalistic their church or their upbringing was, I think we forget that like also joy is a fruit of the spirit. Like it's a fruit. It's a fruit of the spirit. So as believers, as people that are trying to live like Jesus, I think we get so focused in on the ones that seem like self righteous. Right? Like I'm so patient, I have so much self control. I'm so like all the self righteous ones. And we forget that joy is one of those too. And so I think that if we are looking at ourselves in the mirror and going, hey, there's no joy in our lives, that's actually a place that we need to work on growing like it's spiritual growth to be able to practice what that actually would look like. [00:37:27] Speaker A: I could not agree more. And from, you know, this is not the angle that I typically present all this to the world because, you know, we gotta like bridge the gap. [00:37:39] Speaker B: Yes, totally, totally. [00:37:41] Speaker A: You know, but spiritually, with the invitation and the purpose that I think God has given me, it is just that it is to bring people back to that joy and help them reconnect with it because it is so important. And we have these tools and these gifts that we were given, which is everything that we've been talking about to make space for that joy and fill more of our lives with that joy. And, and we're not joyful all the time. We can't be. There's. Please don't try to be. I've done that. And it backfires really, really hard. But I do. With it being a fruit of the spirit, there's a lot more space for it than I think, what most people think. [00:38:18] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:38:19] Speaker A: And that's. Yeah, it's time to reconnect with it. [00:38:23] Speaker B: Do you ever find. When you're working with different people and trying to help them find their fun, do you ever get, like, feedback from critics? Or maybe they have a spouse or somebody that doesn't understand and they're just like, why are you playing? Like, why do you come up with that a lot? Or people are just like, they just don't get it or they think it's frivolous. [00:38:42] Speaker A: You know, people, yes, definitely think it's frivolous. Now people don't. Typically, they're not very forthcoming about the resistance. It's more. I can read it on their face. [00:38:55] Speaker B: Okay. [00:38:55] Speaker A: Or maybe it's like the husband. Like, it's hearsay. You know, she tells me what's. What's coming through. Because I. And I honestly think that that's because I don't get directly challenged a lot, because there is instinct involved in. This is part of our nature. So even if you don't agree that fun should be a high priority, I believe there's something inside that God has put in all of our spirits that just intuitively knows that it's relevant and important. [00:39:29] Speaker B: How would you encourage someone if somebody came to you and was like, hey, I'm trying to incorporate more play. But my, you know, spouse, whoever, is just telling me to stop because it's a waste of time or I should be doing more important things or I'm not prioritizing. How would you encourage them to keep going? [00:39:51] Speaker A: This is such a good question. I would say, one, you're in a position of leadership here, and that has been. This is an area in my marriage where I've been in a position of leadership, and it was difficult at first, and there's still moments where it's difficult and we don't see eye to eye. But one, with time, it has been well worth it because my husband now has a lot of hobbies and a lot more friends than he used to. [00:40:20] Speaker C: Look at that. [00:40:21] Speaker A: And he's a lot happier. [00:40:23] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:40:24] Speaker A: So one, know that it's going to take some time because everyone's journey is completely different and everyone has different conditioning that they're unraveling in their. In their mind, and everyone just has different starting points. And then secondly, I think one of the most important things here is to communicate and get on the same page about what's really going on. So recently, Alex and I went to a wedding, and the dance floor was dead. That is my. That is, like, my greatest, like, calling and project is to be the one to. To get the dance floor going. I feel like you would be that type, too. [00:41:03] Speaker B: Yes, I am. [00:41:04] Speaker A: Yeah, of course you are. And so I was instantly ready to hit the floor, and I was trying to drag him up there, and it ended up being this. A whole unfolding of moments and events throughout the night where he was very, very uncomfortable and pretty mad at me, honestly, because I was really pushing him and not really tolerating his resistance to getting on the dance floor. Because I'm also like, you're married to me, right? You gotta be ready for this. Yeah, exactly. And then the next day, after we both went to bed angry, the co. The conversation over coffee was about an experience that he had as a child that he carried with him in regards to dancing in front of people. That was a little too traumatic, and that was. It was not okay for me to be pushing him out of his comfort zone in that way. And I should have taken the time to understand what his resistance was to that, where that comes from. And also, what would make this evening fun for you? For me, it was dancing. For him, it was probably something totally different. So just communicating about that so that you can. You can both have fun. [00:42:12] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:42:13] Speaker B: No, that's so important. That's so important. Well, and there's so many different things, right? Like, even with Alex, maybe if the dance floor had been full and y' all weren't the first ones out there, it would have been easier for him to, like, transition in so many different things that. [00:42:26] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:42:27] Speaker B: That can determine whether or not it's fun for somebody. [00:42:30] Speaker A: Yeah. So being patient, you know, I feel like it always comes down to patience and communication. [00:42:34] Speaker B: Also a fruit of the spirit. [00:42:36] Speaker A: Spirit. [00:42:36] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [00:42:39] Speaker B: So spiritually speaking, Carrie, if people wanted to work fun into, like, a weekly Sabbath routine, right? Which I'm like, I need to do this. This is my goal. What could that look like? What are some practical. Practical ways people could just start to work fun in. [00:42:55] Speaker A: Okay. Even when people ask me practical questions, I start with, like, something mindset and vague. So we're gonna work from there. I mean, question for you and for audience. Has. Have you read the Ruthless Elimination of Hurry? [00:43:12] Speaker C: Yes. [00:43:13] Speaker A: Great book, love. Highly recommend. It's basically all about slowing down, of course, given the title. And he talks about how Sabbath and worship. We have these ideas of what it looks like and it's slowing down and it's resting, and then it's reading your Bible or it's playing worship music. It's going to church. Yes, those are great. And worship is also expressing your gratitude towards God and for this miraculous life that you're living, because every single human being's life is a literal miracle. It's insane. And it's insane how easy it is to forget that and just take it all for granted. But we are living, breathing, walking miracles with purpose. And part of your worship and your gratitude for that is enjoying this life that you have and everything that you've been blessed with. And so I think it starts with, what do you enjoy? Like, let's give some. Ask yourself that question. And there's so many things that pop up when we do of what we should be doing or, like, just the. The need to constantly be productive or have some kind of purpose attached to things. But if we let all of that go, how would you really enjoy the day? Would you eat ice cream? Would you stare at the sky and do absolutely nothing? Would you play a game with your kids? Would you spend time with friends? Would you have a campfire and a glass of wine? Like, you name it, as long as it's not going to. And I feel like then we come up against the. The question or the barrier of, like, indulgence and pleasure and where. What the difference is between that and enjoyment. And I think the easiest thing for me is to measure it against, like, am I going. Is it going to make me feel good tomorrow, too? Oh, okay. [00:45:05] Speaker B: That's a. That is a great lens to look through. [00:45:07] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:45:08] Speaker A: Yeah. Because it's easy to be like, oh, I want to stuff my face with five cheeseburgers. And sometimes that's. That's fine, whatever. Depending on the person. Sometimes that's the thing. But the line is, how many cheeseburgers Until I feel terrible tomorrow and then I regret it. [00:45:24] Speaker C: That's really good. [00:45:25] Speaker B: I would not. That's a great. That's a really great measure. Okay, I'm gonna. I'm gonna figure out, and I love too, that you use the word should. And I think a lot of. When people think about Sabbath, myself included, I always am like, okay, what should I be doing? And I need to not should on myself. And I need to just do, like you said, what is going to actually make me feel enjoyment and happy and have fun, because that's what's actually going to lead to rest. Like, sitting and being still is not going to lead to rest. For me, it's Going to just make me think about all the things that I'm not doing because I'm sitting still. I have to. [00:46:01] Speaker A: That's really. That's a really good thing to highlight. [00:46:04] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:46:05] Speaker A: Because rest. And another, like on that note, identifying what will actually leave you feeling rested and recharged. And that's where all of this fun comes in. Because I like to see it as simultaneous rest and recharging. Whereas sometimes if we're just trying to rest, we'll sit down and turn the TV on. And that's not resting, it's numbing. And it actually ends up making us feel more exasperated. [00:46:27] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. And, yeah. [00:46:29] Speaker B: More exhausted, more mentally exhausted. [00:46:31] Speaker C: All the things. [00:46:32] Speaker A: Yeah. So for you, I'm curious to hear what's coming up, like, when you think about, oh, what would I really enjoy? What would feel good on the inside for you on your next Sabbath day? What. What comes up. [00:46:44] Speaker B: I need to figure that out. I. What lately, which I didn't even think about as fun, but maybe I should classify it as fun. I've been making sure that I've got intentional time to move my body, even if it's just a walk in my neighborhood. Because, number one, like you said, the creativity, like, when I feel stuck or if I'm, like, working on a sermon and I've been in it for hours, I'm like, I need a brain break. But also it gets me out of my house, away from the people that I love very much. But sometimes just I need my brain, like, needs a break, you know? [00:47:16] Speaker A: Totally. [00:47:17] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:47:17] Speaker A: Our brains don't get a lot of breaks unless we really push for it. [00:47:21] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [00:47:22] Speaker B: So I'll have to figure out. I'll have to circle back to you and let you know what I end up doing. That's my fun thing. [00:47:28] Speaker A: Yeah, let me know. I will. [00:47:31] Speaker B: Well, how do you see people's lives changing if they learn to incorporate fun. [00:47:36] Speaker A: All the ways? Specifically, when we have more fun, like we talked about earlier, we feel more connected to ourselves, to God, the Holy Spirit, to others. We become a lot more present in life, which I think is really important to the Lord. [00:47:55] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:47:56] Speaker A: For us to be in the moment and trust him. So it really kind of. It fosters that spirit of surrender and trust and faith, and it removes us from being so influenced by the world's agenda, which is do more, make more, consume more. It's exhausting. So with that, like, we find rest just being less. Less caught up in that. [00:48:23] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:48:23] Speaker A: And then as a result, we become more productive people. We become more focused on the purpose and the callings that God has for us in our lives and the unique path that he has for us. And it all just feels a lot lighter, a lot easier, a lot more enjoyable. And that can ripple out in any direction, but those are the things I would narrow it down to. [00:48:44] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:48:45] Speaker B: So much freedom in that. All right, last question for you, Carrie, because the podcast is called Becoming Church. Because we don't go to church. We are the church. We're becoming the church. How can having fun help us to become the church to the people around us? [00:49:00] Speaker A: We kind of talked about it a little bit, but with joy. Being a fruit of the spirit in this context, reconnecting with joy and then getting to share that with others is everything. [00:49:15] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:49:16] Speaker A: Is everything. Because that. It just gets lost. There's not a lot of people talking about that. And we talk a lot about love and kindness and compassion, and that is also extremely important. [00:49:28] Speaker C: Sure. [00:49:28] Speaker A: And so is our joy. And we've been given these gifts, these tools, these fun levers as, like, as I say, the connection, play and creativity, and however we like to do those things, to tap into that joy and then embody it and then get to share it with others and just kind of overflow out into the world instead of coming from this place of depletion and resentment and that. Like living more like Jesus. [00:49:56] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:49:56] Speaker A: And being the light. I mean, you think about when you're connected with joy, you are more lit up. You can actually be a light to the world. [00:50:04] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:50:04] Speaker B: Oh, that's so good. And it's so true. Right. Especially now. Like, we need some levity. We need some light. And so when we. I think it also shows people, when we can live in our joy, the joy of the Lord, we can show people actually, like, there is a different way of living. There is a difference in. Listen, if we claim to follow Jesus and we're like, jesus changed my life. God loves me, and I'm just as depressed as everyone else on the planet. Like, what? [00:50:35] Speaker A: Wait a second. [00:50:36] Speaker B: Like what? How is that enticing or convincing anyone to have a relationship with Jesus? They're like, you're just as miserable as I am. Like, what's this doing at all? [00:50:45] Speaker A: So, yeah, absolutely. Enjoy. And living a fun life and just having more fun presence is very attractive. [00:50:54] Speaker B: Yes. [00:50:54] Speaker A: And that is, you know, that serves everybody, like, from every angle, Whether we're talking about the professional world or we're talking about the. The spiritual side of things. You want to be magnetic and attractive so that you can have a positive impact on others. [00:51:12] Speaker B: Yeah, it opens the door to conversation for all kinds of things. [00:51:16] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:51:18] Speaker B: Carrie, thank you for being here. I'm going to link up your book and also what's your company, your organization called if people want to work with you as a. As a client? [00:51:27] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:51:27] Speaker A: Yeah. So my website is carrie the fun coach.com and there's tons of resources on there from blog, podcasts, working together. I have a local club here in Charlotte where we come together and have fun in a growth oriented way and my company, overarchingly is the fun side. [00:51:44] Speaker B: Awesome. We'll link it all up. Thank you so much for being here. [00:51:48] Speaker A: Yeah, thank you so much for having me. Kristin, it was amazing. [00:51:56] Speaker B: You have a light inside of you and I promise you that it's still there. I know for a lot of us and a lot of days it can feel like your light has gone out or maybe it's been snuffed out or blown out out by events or other people in the world or that maybe somehow, like in that old song that we used to sing is kids, your light is somehow, you know, hiding under a bushel. But that is not true. And I hope this conversation was the beginning of reigniting those embers within you. You don't have to earn your rest or your joy or even your play. And if that's a hard concept for you to wrap your head around, I'm going to link up Carrie's book in the show notes as well, well as two other resources that I hope will help you. You had listened to episode 119 of the Becoming Church podcast with Pastor Terry Crist on finding real rest as well as a sermon that I recently did on spiritual exhaustion. Also, be thinking of what aspect of play you want to incorporate into your weekly routine and share it on the Instagram post for this episode on my feed, hristenmothler Young. We can encourage each other to keep finding joy and bringing other weary people into the conversation with us. Until next time, thanks so much for listening and keep becoming the church to the people around you.