Episode Transcript
[00:00:10] Speaker A: Welcome to Becoming Church, the podcast where we discuss how the message and movement of Jesus is not just about becoming Christians, but about becoming the church. I'm your host, Kristin Mockler Young, and my guest today is Jen Johnson. Jen is a singer and songwriter as well as the president of Bethel Music. Even if you don't know her by name, you probably know her work. I bet you've sung songs like Goodness of God, no. 1, like the Lord, I Belong to Jesus, and a few others that I may or may not get emotional talking about with her in this interview. Jen is fun and vibrant, and I know you're going to love this conversation with her.
All right, Jen, welcome to the Becoming Church podcast.
[00:00:55] Speaker B: Thanks for having me.
[00:00:57] Speaker A: So excited for you to be here today. I'm laughing, actually, because right before I hit record, you were like, ask me about literally anything.
[00:01:05] Speaker B: So babies, marriage, Jesus health, all of it. Love it.
[00:01:11] Speaker A: I love it. Well, you have been in worship is probably what most people know you for. How long have you been doing worship?
[00:01:19] Speaker B: So I grew up in the church. I grew up when I was five years old, I started singing in church and playing piano. And so it's just kind of always been a part of my rhythm, my life rhythm. And I never planned on, you know, making this a, you know, life career by any means. But when Brian and I got married when I was 18, right after that, they turned worship over to us at Bethel. And and so we were thrown into the deep end in a big way. And that's when we really started writing more songs and people started coming to the church and to what we were doing. And so we, you know, kind of built Bethel Music to be a container to help facilitate this move of God and these songs that God was giving us. And so 25 years now, this is our 25th year of being married and of leading this wild banshee crew. So, yeah, it's been. It's been a wild ride, but it's been amazing.
[00:02:16] Speaker A: So you guys actually, like, started what people know of Bethel Music? Like, that was you and Brian?
[00:02:22] Speaker B: Yeah, we originally, back in 25 years ago, we were going to sign with another label, and then that label actually went bankrupt. And so then we were just kind of trying to figure out what we wanted to do. And to be honest, the music industry, especially the major labels, what they required of you, how. How much they required of you to be gone and to be away from your family, and it didn't allow people to be normal or to be plugged into churches, which we were like, we know that we're called to be church people and leading worship in church. Healthy family, marriage, like you know, sustainability. Really honestly. And so we weren't seeing it. And so honestly that's what pushed us to start our own thing is because we're like, surely there's another way that God will show us. And he's just been so faithful to do that as we've just gone through these uncharted waters of, you know, starting a label.
[00:03:13] Speaker A: So yeah, that's awesome. So you guys really how you have like most direction, like it's not coming like down from like how much pastoral leadership or voices is there or is it you guys just kind of get to steer the ship.
[00:03:28] Speaker B: So we have been. Both Brian and I have been under church leadership our whole lives. So we are, you know, on staff with our church and we have people who are speaking into our lives. We've actually given not just in our church, but a broader community of leaders a voice in our life all over the world. Like hey, talk to me. Good, bad or ugly. Mostly the things that are making you nervous or talk to us. Here's an opening to speak into any part of our life. And so I think by having that it's really given us a safety and a security and also just really beautiful. Correction honestly along the way that has been very helpful. I would be very weird when without the things that I've been corrected on thankfully. So. But yeah, we. I believe that being under submission is really important and being so. So I am the president of Bethel Music, but we have a board that governs Bethel Music as well that has leaders around the world from different aspects and parts of the church. And so yeah we. We definitely believe in not being lone rangers and getting advice.
[00:04:34] Speaker A: What's. Is there anything that comes to mind in particular where you're like I would have been weird or like something that a way you've changed in how much.
[00:04:42] Speaker B: Time do you have?
[00:04:45] Speaker A: I want the best like juiciest one, you know.
[00:04:48] Speaker B: Okay, I'll just start with a sweet one. I. When I was pregnant, we have five kids plus a son in law.
And so when I was pregnant with my first daughter, she was kicking me and I was uncomfortable. And my. My father in law, Bill actually he's like how are you doing? You know. And I was like, well I'd be great if this little brat wasn't having her feet. My rib cage, you. And he turned around and looked at me with like words weren't even needed. And he was like, that is my grandchild. She is not a Brat, and you'll never call her that again. And it readjusted something in my, honestly, in my like, family lineage because I grew up with like, that phrase was thrown around all the time. We were always called brats. Our cousins were called brats, like, and it, it literally brought that like, simple conviction moment where like that would have been continued on that negative one little thing, like word curse, honestly.
And it stopped it. So little things like that. Like, I'm just so thankful that I've had people in my life who love me. I mean, my mother in law, Brian's mom, she's in heaven now. But she also said a simple line of correction to me. When we were first married and Brian and I were arguing over back in the day, we were the only ones that had like a reliable car to use it on all of our ministry trips with all these young guys who had like, nothing. And I was like, kind of complaining, well, then they should give us, you know, just being stupid, honestly. Right. And so we've made this pattern in our life of anytime we kind of hit a roadblock in our communication or that we reach out for help. And so we reached out to her and just told her the scenario and was like, what do you think? You know? And she just sat there in silence. And she said one thing to me. She said, honey, you care way too much about money.
And it sent me on this, like, journey with God of like, wow, I do. I grew up really responsible and things were paid for and like, but we held money too closely and too intensely and we didn't make room for God to do really crazy things. So just those simple things like that. I've had much bigger ones as well, but I'm just so grateful for that.
[00:07:04] Speaker A: Yeah. Isn't it funny how it tends to be the peop. The words that people don't necessarily even like, plan to say that just come out in moments like that that stick with us the most. That's when I'm like, hello, Holy Spirit.
[00:07:16] Speaker B: Shout to the heart.
[00:07:19] Speaker A: I hear you. Yeah, well, what about one of your favorite experiences or thing that you've gotten to see or be part of with Bethel with worship?
[00:07:29] Speaker B: You know, Bethel's a wild place. And what I love about it is that they are just so passionate about the presence of God and the courage is what I really commend.
You know, you read your Bible and you read these really wild stories. I'm in Exodus right now. I've just been reading just about, you know, just really studying Moses's journey and it's it's just insane, like, to look at the courage that, you know, the people of the Bible had. And so what I love about being a part of this culture and what attracted me to this culture is that they focus on the presence of God and also hearing from God and doing whatever he's asking you to do. Pray, say, sing, whatever, without that roadblock of the fear of man. And so it really, I think that call that passion. When I started hearing Bill back in the day, when I was, like, you know, probably 12 years old, it's when I remember hearing him speak, and it was just like, this is my tribe, you know, and so it's wild. You know, we have people who come through and, you know, Bethel's in the media sometimes because of really weird stuff, and, like, you know, it happens, and people are just practicing hearing God. And when you practice, sometimes you make mistakes, you know, like, who's perfect? But I don't think that God is focusing on the mistakes. I think God goes after the heart, and he wants us to know that our hearts are following him to the best of our ability. And that's just like, you know, being a natural parent, that's what you want from your kids, a good attitude and an obedient heart. And so I think that the culture here celebrates that in a really beautiful way where we just go for it. And we, you know, we read our Bibles and we just do our best to be connected to the Holy Spirit and to go for it, whatever he's asking us to do.
And so, yeah, it gets wild and you make a mess, but, like, you know, everybody poops. You just flush, you know?
[00:09:30] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah. I'm a pastor. I'm one of the pastors at Mosaic Church here in Charlotte, North Carolina. And that's always, like, we have this class where we teach people about their enneagram and their spiritual gifts. And that's always what I try to get people to understand is I'm like, you're not going to get it perfect the first time. Like, hearing from God, praying for someone else, speaking out. Like, whatever you think the thing is, you're going to fail. Like, you're going to get it wrong.
[00:09:57] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:09:58] Speaker A: Practice. It's okay. Like, it's the only way that you learn discernment, you know?
[00:10:02] Speaker B: Absolutely. And I think, like, you know, taking the pressure off of we have to get it perfect all the time. Like, that's not what we expect of our kids. That's not what God expects of us. But I think that how we communicate what we're getting and feeling is really important. Like, I think that, like, you know, unless God specifically tells you to say, thus saith the Lord, which I've never heard that personally, you know, probably don't need to say that. Like, you can bring your full humanity and say, hey, I feel, or, hey, like, you know, I had this. I had this really. I was at a conference recently, and this guy was there, and I just. I had. I'm. I. I'm asking God to speak to me always about anyone in anything that he wants to. And I think for any of the listeners today, just start there. Just ask God to speak to you and ask him to give you listening ears. And so I. I see this guy and I look at him, and in one flash moment, I just get this, like, picture of him with big red boxing gloves, like, wailing on this boxing bag. And I just see the presence of God around him. And it was like, that fast. And so, you know, I didn't have to go over to him and be like, thus saith the Lord. You know, I just went over and I'm like, hey, bro, we'd never met. I was like, hey. I said, I. I just looked at you and I said, and I just got this picture that I wanted to share. And I said, and I shared it just like that. I feel like God's meeting. I said, I don't know if you box or, I don't know. But I said, I just see the presence of God surrounding you. And he goes, no way. And I was like, were we good? You know?
No way. And I was like, what? He goes. I go, do you box or something? Like, no idea, you know? And he goes, I used to be really into boxing, like, major, like. And he goes. And I haven't for a really long time. He said, but this morning, I went down to my hotel, I put on the gloves, and I wailed on that bag. And, you know, I love God because, you know, it's like, it's not this direction word or this crazy, like, and this is the next life plan for you. It's just these simple moments that God goes, hey, I know you see right where you're at, and I love you and I'm with you. Like. And so just. Just to be a vessel of hearing what God's doing and to do the best of your ability to do that, maybe it's simple. Maybe it's not even a, you know, something that people would even know you do. Maybe it's in secret or behind the scenes. That's not the point. I remember one time God asked me to pick up some garbage on the side of the road and throw it away. And there was, like, no eternal purpose to it other than it was breaking my will to have to know everything all the time, which is very good for me. So.
[00:12:42] Speaker A: Yeah. So I'll share a story back since you shared one. I was actually at a. Like, a women's and ministry leadership retreat, and we were going around. I didn't know anybody in the small group that I was in. And at the end of the session, we were supposed to go around and pray and pray for the person on our right.
[00:12:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:58] Speaker A: And so there was this lady named Sarah that I had literally never met. And I just start praying, and I hear as the words are coming out of my mouth, yep, I hear, God, Sarah is a camel. And I'm like, what am I doing? What? So. And it just keeps coming out. God, I pray that you would make Sarah a camel, that she'd know that she is a camel. And I'm, like, literally going, what? This sounds.
[00:13:21] Speaker B: I love it.
[00:13:22] Speaker A: So insane. So afterwards, guess what? She comes up to me that afternoon and she's like, I just need you to know that, like, I've been trying to get pregnant, and camel has kept showing up, but, like, always in a color. She's like, it's never been actually the animal, but when you prayed that over me, and just the idea of what they carry and this specific prayer request and blah, blah, blah, she's like, it gave me goosebumps and chills and reminded me that.
And now she has this sweet baby boy, and I'm like, oh, my gosh.
[00:13:52] Speaker B: Like, I love it. Yeah. Because, hey, you know, honestly, sometimes, like, I've had.
I've had. Sometimes God will give me a picture or a word and then more to back it up. And then sometimes, like, literally, I've. I've gone to somebody and God's gone. Say nothing more and nothing less.
Like, I had a picture of a green apple, and that was it. Like.
And I was like, I. I don't have anything other than this, but I just want to tell you, like, I got a picture of a green apple. I. I have no idea if that rang true, but it doesn't matter because I'm doing the best of my ability to hear him, and I'm bringing it to people in a humble way that they can either go, hey, eat the meat, spit out the bones. You know, like, if this resounds with you, great. If not, I tried, you know what I mean? Encouraging people and that's really what we do with our worship teams as well, is, is, you know, practice in your normal life hearing from God and speaking, whatever he's getting you. Because then when you get up on that stage or when you get in any form of a public position, you're not, you know, that's the time that you're, you've gotten into a practice of hearing him and it's going to be way less messy than if you're practicing, you know, not publicly.
[00:15:04] Speaker A: Yeah.
Yeah. Well, you, you guys have a new album out. We do respond, and I've been listening to it, so I think the obvious question is first, like, what are we responding to? What is this in response to? To.
[00:15:19] Speaker B: So we must respond is actually funny because it's not a lyric in the album and it's not a song on the album at all. It's just this statement and so. Which is a very unique thing to do. But we really felt so strongly about it. And it was actually from something that my father in law, Bill, said in a message, and he was just talking about, you know, really the heart of it is with all that God's done from us, for us, from you just look from Genesis to Revelation, just in his word, like creation, breath in our lungs, the cross, like everything that God is to us and everything that he's done for us, not even mentioning what he is going to do in, you know, the rest of our lives. How could we not every single day praise Him? And I don't know about you, but sometimes for me in my life, a day can go by, Days can go by. And even if I've read my Bible or if I'm, you know, doing the things of God, I haven't stopped and worshiped and just thank you, God. Thank you for who you are, you know. And so really that's the challenge of this album, is for us all to be reminded that we have a daily responsibility to respond to who he is. And that's so good for our souls to stay in that every single day and just to not let a day go by. And so that really is where it came from, was that one liner of we must respond. We have to, you know, and so we were like, yeah, we're running with that. There's a verse in the Bible that says, and they sang responsibly to the Lord for all he had done. And so really that's. That's kind of where that, that comes from.
[00:16:52] Speaker A: Yeah. So I'm sure you wrote this, what, how long? A year ago, Months ago? Like, I don't know how quick the turnaround is on writing these songs versus actually putting it out.
[00:17:03] Speaker B: You know, some of. Some of these songs start, you know, years before, and then we finish them as part of. It's kind of like a big puzzle piece. We. We do. But so a few things. The one. There's a song on this album called the Church, and it's. It's really special to me because I feel like it might be one of the songs I was put on the planet to write. Definitely something I was born to do is unite the church and help the church globally. You know, listen to what the Spirit says to the churches, as Revelation says. I don't believe any movement or church has a corner on the market or is more important. I think we all need each other. Just like our body has a million different parts that work together beautifully. Jesus has the head to function. And so a big passion of mine is to help all of the sides of the church see the beauty in each other and work together and celebrate each other and get over themselves that they're better than, you know.
And so this song was so special because we were actually in Dallas. I was leading worship at Upper Room Church, and we did a little songwriting retreat. There were some friends from Passion City Church and Bethel and Upper Room. And at the end of the writing retreat, we just sat down together and we were like, what if we just took the last two hours and all 15 or whatever of us, we just wrote a song together and. And so this little chord progression comes, I think, in the beginning, and we just start writing about the beauty of the church. And I feel like I had been pregnant with this song, and it just came out like it just like a river and all of us contributing different lines and phrases. And I was just on my knees, honestly, in like this, with my head on the floor as we were writing it, because it felt so holy. And so now to hear it going around the world and all of these churches singing this cry and this echo of unite us. Make us one holy Spirit. It's very moving to me to see those words put into music. So, yeah, every song is so unique. We encourage listeners. Take the ride. We say, like, start at the album beginning and just sit down, especially the first time you listen to it. Sit down and listen to it, start to finish, and just take it in what the complete message of the project is saying. And then you can put your favorite songs in your playlist. But. Right.
[00:19:25] Speaker A: Yeah, that's what I did the first time. I just. I was like, I just need to listen to it all the way through. But that one, I do think the church maybe is my favorite one, because, I mean, this podcast is called Becoming Church. I have a heart for the church. Like, there is a lot of work that we need to do within, especially the American Western Evangelical Church.
[00:19:44] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:19:45] Speaker A: But we criticize her because we love her and we want her to live to her full potential and comes together and all the things. So, yeah, I really loved the message of that one. I was curious about timeline, because I know that God, you know, knowing what's to come and what's even further in the future to come, like, surely he had to know what was going on right now, like, what would be happening in this moment as this album is being released.
[00:20:12] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:20:12] Speaker A: And so I wonder if there's a particular song. Maybe it's the church. Maybe it's another one that you feel like is really even the most applicable for, like, this moment in history.
[00:20:22] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, there's so many amazing songs on this album that we. My favorite compliment we've gotten so far is that this is a no skip album. So I'm like, yes, I love that for us. And we've gotten it multiple times, which I'm like, yay. But we really pushed our artists to craft their songs that they would match the spirit of the song and not just settle for a good song, but really push to make these songs great. And so I'm really. I'm really proud of our entire team for how they leaned in and really put the work in to make these songs the kind of the next level of excellence. But, you know, I think that one of the songs that feels very timely is.
Is the song no.1 like the Lord. And this song, if you've heard it, it's crazy. It's like it will punch you in the face. It is. So there's like, some intense moments. But I remember when I heard this song, when it wasn't completed yet done by a couple of my friends, Lindy and Eniola had this song mostly done, and they were playing it at one of the conferences that I was at, and I was like, I want this song like this. I was. It's just so, like, it's something that heaven's singing, and you can feel that, like, it. It. I love songs that connect us to the Lord and what's going on in our lives, and then he meets us, and I love that. But my favorite songs are the songs that just, like, holy forever. Like, that just take you and you're singing what heaven is singing. You know, that's my favorite because it's just the things of earth grow strangely dim in those moments when we're just singing what heaven singing. And so that was this song. And so I, I, I took the liberty to try to, to make it a little bit more corporate. And then I, I text my friends and I said, hey, I said, we really want to put this out. I was like, I made these tweaks to it. Are you okay with that? Do you like it? Like, because I just want to, I want to take the raw, passionate that it is and make it corporate. This people will sing it because it didn't have the. There's no one like the Lord. It just kind of kept going. And so just a few tweaks like that. And so they were like, yes, do it. Yes, we love it. So thankfully, they, they let me do that, but. And then there's more writers on that song as well. But that one' really special because it just feels like a heaven song, and I love those.
[00:22:49] Speaker A: Yeah, well. And I do think that right now, no matter what people are feeling about the future, the next few years, it is a reminder that we all need that God is still in control. Not as a spiritual platitude, not as a way of sitting back and going, like, we don't have to worry about what's going on in the world. But no, it's a reminder of, like, when our eyes get distracted by the urgent or the loud or the overwhelming. No, we have to then, like, turn back to heaven. We have to keep our eyes on what's good and what he's doing, or we will lose our minds down here. I mean, truly, you know.
[00:23:24] Speaker B: You know, God's not surprised. He knew exactly what 2025 was going to be like. You know, I read this morning the verse that I posted this morning on, on old Instagram.
[00:23:36] Speaker A: I love old Instagram.
[00:23:38] Speaker B: Old Instagram, it's a world. But the verse I read this morning that I posted was actually the, the actual words are, there's no one like the Lord. It's an exodus. And then he says it again. There's no one like me in all the earth. And then right after that, it says, but I have raised you up for this very purpose that I might show you My power, that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth. And so that's really it for me, is that, you know, God put us on this planet in this hour. We were born for literally such a time as this. So even though the darkness is dark, we can't forget that the light that we have inside of us and that he is, is so much greater. And that we were born for 2025. So, God, how do we speak into the darkness? How do we bring your light? How do we. Each and every one of us. That's our question. Because there's no coincidence that we are here in 2025. God knew.
[00:24:31] Speaker A: Yeah, I say that all the time. I love that we are like. So we're vibing like. Yes, we were. We were made for this moment. That's why we're here. That's why.
[00:24:40] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:24:42] Speaker A: So, Jen, I imagine that you don't go through your day singing at people all the time.
[00:24:48] Speaker B: Well, actually, you'd be surprised. I really.
I actually do. I sing like, I have this funny line that I sing to every. I love you so much. I sing it.
I do sing all the time. I'm a little.
[00:25:06] Speaker A: Okay, well, my question was going to be, what is maybe your secondary then, way that you like to show the love of Jesus to people around you if you're not singing at them?
[00:25:14] Speaker B: Yes, yes.
[00:25:15] Speaker A: How else do you like to be that light in the darkness?
[00:25:17] Speaker B: You know, I think that a big, maybe just probably equal to our worship gift. A big piece of our heart is hospitality. And so we have a house that we renovated and built out for 10 years. Years. I'm talking contractors in my house for 10 years. It was crazy.
And we took this little tiny house and basically completely renovated it and then blew out every side of the house. And now it's this massive house. Not so we could live in this big mansion, but because we knew that part of the call of God in our life was to host and be hospitable to the global church, especially coming through.
And that kings and queens would come to our house. And God gave me this word a long time ago, before a lot of anything had happened, even to the point where I was in a store and there was a table that I wanted really bad and it was really expensive. And I just put my hand on the table and I was like, one day I'll have you, my pretty. You know? And I heard the Lord say, this table's yours if you want it. And I was like, God, we don't have any money for this. Like, this is dumb. This is crazy. But I knew it was the Lord. And so I called Brian and I'm like, honey, I know this is. Doesn't make any sense, but I feel like I'm supposed to buy this table. And so he's like, if you feel like it's the Lord, you know. And so we put it on this credit card, which we did not want to do, but like, you got to discount anyway all these things. And I got a check in the mail for an event that I had done that we hadn't like accounted for. The same day the bill came for that table and it was almost to the dollar, the same amount. And the Lord went, you know, follow me.
[00:26:58] Speaker A: I got you.
[00:26:59] Speaker B: When I table in my house, the Lord spoke to me and said, I'll put kings and queens at this table. And it's just been incredible to as we've kind of bent our life to accommodate and to, to host queens and kings from all of the global church in the worship movement. We. And we have retreats at our house. We have worship retreat at our house and we. I've had women, the, the women of the global church retreat at my house, like and a singles mixers at my house for all these spirit filled, incredible single people that I felt like I was supposed to throw a party for to show them that like there's so many of them out there and to not be discouraged. And you know, so it's just been so wild like what the Lord has had us host at our house. But I think hospitality and excellence and like great food and great coffee, which there will be in heaven, I think absolutely. You know, those, those kind of things like that the hospitality part of it has, is definitely a massive part of our, our life and our gift.
[00:28:01] Speaker A: That's awesome. Do your kids like it too? Do they like to host and have people over?
[00:28:04] Speaker B: They do. It's funny, they have all picked up on, you know, kind of the same thing, especially like our oldest daughter and then our, our middle son, they're just the party throwers. So it's cute. My son's always got like 15 teenage kids up in my movie room and so yeah, they definitely got the.
[00:28:26] Speaker A: That's awesome. That's awesome. Well, I can imagine too that you collaborate. You've mentioned multiple writers on these different songs. Is there somebody that you would love to collaborate with, work with, that you haven't yet, that you have this like dream partnership kind of with?
[00:28:41] Speaker B: Yes.
I mean I, I really love Chris Martin from Coldplay.
[00:28:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:28:49] Speaker B: And I just heard him for the first time a couple weeks ago at the Grammys live and like, he just is such a special human. So I would love to do something with him.
I've always talked about working with Katy Perry. I've just loved her forever. And so, yeah, I'M down for any of the. Of the collabs. I love a good collab. I'm working on my own album for the first time, which is really exciting for me. That is exciting. Yeah. And it's gonna be out sometime this year, and I'm really excited because it is not anything like I've ever done before. And it's fun to do it now in my career because I can kind of do whatever I want, which is really fun. So I have, like a country love song to my husband. I have a pop song about how obsessed I am with my kids.
Yeah, yeah. And then I have, of course, a few worship songs and a song I wrote for somebody who was just really struggling to know God for themselves versus, you know, the religion of their that had been put on them. And I've just kind of got a. I've got a little piece of my entire life, throughout my life for this album. So I'm excited. It's going to be, you know, probably. I don't know when it'll come out, but hopefully.
[00:30:03] Speaker A: That's really special. That's so fun. I can't wait to listen to that.
[00:30:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm excited. So we'll see who we collab on it with.
[00:30:09] Speaker A: Awesome. Awesome. Okay, well, at the top, I have a couple more worship questions for you. But at the top, you said we could ask you about anything. So now I'm just like, what? Is there something that you're like, I wish people would ask me this. I never get to talk about this. That you just are like, hey, here's the Jen Johnson spin on hot takes.
[00:30:28] Speaker B: Just kidding.
You know, I'd probably say I don't talk enough about my book. I sometimes I forgot that I wrote it, but I wrote a book a few years ago called All Things Lovely. And I'd always wanted to write a book, and I'm sure I'll write another one in the future. But I really had a passion to write this book for the main reason of talking about health and talking about physical, emotional and spiritual health all connected. And oftentimes I feel like with Christians, you hear a lot of spiritual things or even some emotional things, but actually the physical part of who we are in this holistic way of we are spirit, soul and body are really important. And so health for me, if I think every person.
A fun little practice we do here is if there were five words that were your most important words to you that really describe or define your calling in your heart and your gift. What are those words? For me, one of Them is hospitality, one of them is purity, and one of them is health. And so one of them is Holy Spirit, and one of them is church. So, you know, obviously we all have more than five words that are important, but it really, if you boil it down, you know, it's a fun journey to take with the Lord of, like, what are your five things?
And so health for me is something that I really am on a daily journey to know how I can live the healthiest that I can live. Exercise is a huge piece of that. I. I walk or lift weights, like, six days a week, sometimes seven, sometimes five, but. But normally six. And I take an hour of my day to actually physically take care of my body.
And I eat as healthy as, you know, I'm not insane. I love chocolate. So I, you know, eat a little sugar here and there, but I. I avoid corn syrup, and I avoid all chemicals, and I avoid processed food and as much as possible, and to really eat healthy and organic and, you know, people like, well, I can't afford to do that. And I'm like, no, you can afford. Whatever God has called you to do in your life, he's going to provide for you. So you just need to. To change the mindset. But, yeah, and emotional health, I think that counseling from a Christian counselor is really vital and important because why would we go to anybody who doesn't have a source of that is God for their wisdom?
And so taking care of your emotional help, what you go through, you're. You know, there's. Everyone has trauma in their life, so, you know, health, mental, emotional health, and then also spiritual health. Be planted in a church. God says, you know, those who are planted, flourish. We want to flourish. Read your Bible, be connected in a community, be under accountability. So, yeah, my book, All Things Lovely is not just for women.
It's for everybody. And it also talks about, like, kind of dealing with the stuff in your life so you don't live with that chaos underneath. And you can live free, healthy and happy.
[00:33:35] Speaker A: And so it kind of helps them figure out how to connect all of these things.
[00:33:38] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:33:39] Speaker A: Very cool. Okay, what if somebody's like, I want to know what my five words are? What's the practice? Do you just encourage them to, like, sit down with a journal and ask God, just, hey, is it, like, the things that they're passionate about?
[00:33:51] Speaker B: Okay, what do you. What are you passionate about? What do you love to do? You know, Louie Giglio just spoke at Passion in January, and he was speaking to all these college kids, but, man, I would encourage Anyone out there listening to watch and listen to the Passion conference that we just had this 2025. There are some profound messages. But Louie Giglios is really, really special and he just encourages people like, don't make high stakes what you do with your life and what your calling is. Like, what do you love to do? How do you love to help people? Use that as, as something that God's using towards your. Your calling. So, yeah, because God gave you that.
[00:34:29] Speaker A: On purpose, there's a reason that you care about the things that you care about, because God wants you to then work in action in those.
[00:34:35] Speaker B: Absolutely. My best friend and I were talking about yesterday. She's a, you know, really famous photographer and has been for so long. And, you know, she's working in this flower store right now helping her friend out because it's Valentine's week. And oh yeah, she has so much life that comes for her when she's just making people beautiful flower bouquets and bringing them the happiness. And she's like, it's like the happiest week of my year. And I'm like, sometimes we get this high stakes. Like, I have to be on a stage in front of millions of people. And you're like, no, like, Jesus stopped for the One. And it's not to say that the thousands or the One should be everyone's thing. Like, but what's God leading you to do? And how is he leading you to help people? And it doesn't have to be this, like, for the world. It can be for the One. And so, you know, she's just loving Jesus and loving people, you know, selling flowers to Him.
[00:35:27] Speaker A: So I love it. Okay, well, I have to tell you, I have to tell you. Oh, look how pretty.
[00:35:34] Speaker B: See, we love it. Yeah, we'll put them in our. We'll put them in our. In our shop today.
[00:35:38] Speaker A: Little moments of joy.
[00:35:39] Speaker B: Beauty really matters, right? Really does. Surrounded and looking at and celebrating beauty. It really matters.
[00:35:46] Speaker A: Yeah, it really does. Well, I have to tell you, since you, you use the phrase for the One and I'm going to try really hard not to get emotional here. I'm going to preface this.
[00:35:54] Speaker B: We love emotion. So cry your eyes up.
[00:35:57] Speaker A: So tiniest little bit of backstory for you is I was a kindergarten teacher for a long time, and then God called me into ministry and I was like, what? Like, I'm sorry, what? And so now I'm a pastor. Fast forward. Okay.
[00:36:08] Speaker B: Love it.
[00:36:09] Speaker A: And when I came on staff at my church, I was. They offered me to be the campus pastor again. I was a kindergarten teacher, so I was like, I will not take that title. I will be the campus director.
And I was learning how to do ministry and all the things, really not knowing what I was doing, like, really questioning God. Like, I'm following you, but I. Why? Why did you pick me? Anyways? Your song for the one somehow came across my ears, and I've talked on this podcast lots of times about how I prayed a prayer for God to open my eyes and give me eyes to see other people the way. Yeah, I'm getting emotional the way that he sees them, but I don't normally tell people is that that prayer came out of your song. And so truly like that. That song has become my heartbeat. Like, I have a plan to get a tattoo of those lyrics.
[00:36:59] Speaker B: I don't have a tattoo.
[00:37:00] Speaker A: It'll be my first one.
But that truly changed my life. Like, the line of, you know, for humanity, like, increase, increase my love. And that when people would look at me, they would see God. And.
[00:37:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:37:11] Speaker A: I mean, just genuinely thank you. Like, that song truly changed the way I do ministry. The way I see other people in the world, the way I live my life.
I'm so grateful.
[00:37:21] Speaker B: So that's awesome. Thank you.
[00:37:23] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:37:25] Speaker B: Very special song to me.
[00:37:27] Speaker A: It's very special. I love it. I love it.
Do you have any other favorite song, favorite thing that you have ever put out or recorded or, like, concert that you did, anything like that?
[00:37:38] Speaker B: Oh, gosh, you know this. It's an older song that I have on one of the albums. There's been a lot called you're gonna be okay.
[00:37:50] Speaker A: I love that song so much.
[00:37:52] Speaker B: And it's a really special song because, you know, it. Although it completely carries presence and it leads you to Jesus, it doesn't say Jesus or God in the song anywhere. It's just this message of encouragement to people's hearts. And so I feel like it's been sneaky because the Lord has taken that song to people that would never maybe listen to a Christian song, but because it is so filled with, you know, God, yet it's not overtly God that it's just really the ministry of that song has been able to really affect. I mean, I've gotten more messages dms.
That song saved my life. I was going to kill myself and this song randomly started playing. And so I'm really thankful for that. But, yeah, it's been wild. Like, I. I do my best in songwriting to write whatever I feel God's asking me to do, even if it doesn't make Sense.
And so even on this upcoming album that I'm. I'm going to be doing, it's fun because I'm able to write like. I have a new song on this album called Mad at God. And it's a song for people who just go through things that are really difficult to understand why they happen. And people who walk away from God oftentimes when bad things happen because they lose their faith. And it's really an encouragement to them of like, no, even though it's not his fault, you know, just maybe you're mad at God even though you still believe.
And it's just a song that's like a very heart emotional song. And so I'm really excited to put these out and kind of see what God does with them because I. I've just watched him as I've been faithful to write whatever he's asking me to do a long time ago. There's a song called Come to Me, you know that. That came out and it's just this. It's the voice of the Lord saying, I'm your anchor in the wind and the waves. I'm your steadfast, Come to me, I'm all you need. And, you know, that was a really wild song, especially singing it, like in third person, you know, I am the Lord, your God. And like, it's just like my husband was like, are you sure you want to do that? Like, you know something? And I was like, this is how he said it and this is how I'm gonna sing it. So, no, I've just done my best and will forever to. To write and to sing and to say whatever he's asking me, however he's asking me to do it. And even if it's singing over something or people that in my car, you know, that no one will ever hear again. I do my best to just do whatever he asks, however he asks.
And it's been a fun ride. So I'm. I'm loving it.
[00:40:34] Speaker A: Well, I'm not surprised.
I'm loving it. I'm not surprised to hear that your songs are reaching the people that need to hear them, because I think that's what I appreciate so much about your music.
I can't tell you the number of times I've sent It's going to be okay to people, like through text. My daughter has anxiety. It's on her, like, calm playlist. It's one that she goes back to all the time.
And I'm so excited to hear Mad at God. I just. Your songs are very real.
Where a lot of Christian music or worship music is good when you're good, you know, or it's good, like, when. When things are good and you just want to praise God, and those are necessary. But I think you also aren't afraid to say what's real and real emotions. And, like, no, sometimes it sucks. Like, sometimes it's hard. And we can still see God here, too. And I. People need that, you know?
[00:41:25] Speaker B: Absolutely. I. I mean, the song that I wrote called God, I Look to you actually came from a song that I sang in my car with three kids, totally overwhelmed with my life. And I would just sing this honest song to God, and I would sing God, I look to you because I am overwhelmed. And it was honest. I. I was over. And the Lord spoke to me and said, if you keep singing it like that, you're going to stay that way. And. And it caught me to say, okay, what do I sing? God, I look to you. I won't be overwhelmed. And so, you know, I think that. That God knows where we're at in our life. But, you know, even, you know, you said, you know, my daughter has anxiety. I would challenge you and say that she deals with it, she battles with it, but it isn't hers.
[00:42:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:42:11] Speaker B: And I've just. I have been back to correction. I had to be so corrected in, like, be careful what you say. Like, you know, this person is this or that. Like, declarations like that. No, no, we. We don't, like, pretend that we don't deal with these things. Like, I was honest with God, but. But the declarations and what comes out of our mouth. I won't be overwhelmed. She won't be conquered by anxiety. Like those. Those simple tweaks in my life have really changed massively. So that's why I was like, okay, I'll change the lyric to I won't be overwhelmed.
[00:42:45] Speaker A: Yeah, that's so good. Yeah. I mean, even those. The tiniest little words. Yeah. It makes such a difference in meaning and what we're hearing.
[00:42:53] Speaker B: Even people that think they are something, you know, they believe they are, but they're not. So I'll never say that someone isn't something that God doesn't say that they are. Even though they might struggle with it, what they actually are is. Is not that.
[00:43:08] Speaker A: That's so good. Well, this has been such a delight. Thank you so much. The last question that I'm going to ask you, that I always ask everyone is because the podcast is called Becoming Church, how can the people listening be the church to the people around them.
[00:43:23] Speaker B: You know, the church is really special because Christians in the word Christians is Christ like and we want to be like Christ in all things. And so obviously in one part that means for the one to your neighbor like to, to be, to constantly be caring honestly about humanity. And you know, you can't care about the whole world. You can't follow everyone on Instagram and care about all the details of their life. You'll overwhelm your heart. So you do have capacity.
And so for one, I would say monitor that. You know, even coming back to social media, I. I followed so many people that I just loved with my whole heart. But it overwhelmed me and I wasn't doing okay trying to keep up with all the people that their highs and lows of their life. And so the Lord told me, unfollow everybody but your family and start over again. And so I've, you know, just little things like that. So for one, I would say absolutely, we're called to love and be the church, but you have a capacity. And so really, you know, continually be kind of going over that with God who you're caring for, because you're not going to care for in an intimate way the people you needed 20 years ago. That changes and, and reassess that with God. Like who are the people right now that I'm to give my attention to? And as far as the, the other side of the church, the actual gathering of believers in a space, that's God's idea. And as we saw in Acts, that's something that he is really passionate about visiting us. And when we're singing together and iron sharpens iron when we're worshiping. There's something that happens in corporate worship that it doesn't happen when you're home watching on a zoom call. You gotta be in the room. And so I believe in the actual practice of gathering together and singing and hearing from people who are listening to what the Holy Spirit's saying to them for your congregation and your body. And so again, those who are planted in the house of the Lord flourish. Not just people who attend church, but be planted, come to give and to get. See how you can help. Reach out. Use your gifts that God's given you to connect people and help people.
So yeah, I. Big fan of the church.
[00:45:40] Speaker A: Yes, me too. That'll preach. All right. I love it. I love it. Well, thank you so much. We will link up the new album and your social media so people can follow along and find out when the new new album will be coming.
[00:45:52] Speaker B: Lots more to come. We're actually recording an album tomorrow on Valentine's day for the McClures, so Brian and I are part of that. A bunch of our team, Tiffany from Elevation, Leland. So we're all going into recording, so that'll be exciting. Coming down the Coming down the pipe.
[00:46:08] Speaker A: Yay. Can't wait to listen to it and most likely sing it within our churches.
[00:46:13] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:46:18] Speaker A: I have seriously had a plan to get Jen's lyrics from four of the one tattooed on my arm for years now I definitely have to do it right. I'm linking up that song specifically in the show notes. If you've never heard it, it obviously changed my life. But it also reflects the heart of this podcast so well, so I have a feeling that you will love it too. You can also listen to Bethel's new album, We Must respond and get Jen's book All Things Lovely from our Becoming Church Resource list on Amazon. Whether you're singing at people like Jen Johnson or otherwise being a light in the darkness today, keep becoming the church to the people around.
