Latasha Morrison: Be the Bridge Across the Divide

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:10] Speaker B: Welcome to Becoming Church, the podcast where we discuss how the message and movement of Jesus is not just about becoming Christians, but about becoming the church. I'm your host, Kristin Mochler Young, and my guest today is New York Times best selling author who is also the founder and CEO of Be the Bridge, Latasha Morrison. I read Be the bridge back in 2020 when I was in the process of going through my own journey of understanding what it really means to be white in America and how acknowledging whiteness as a culture with my own biases and prejudices doesn't mean that I have to carry the weight of things that generations of people before me had done, but how it is a necessary part of understanding my place in the world and my part in a diverse collective society. If someone sent this episode to you, my prayer is that you would choose to believe the best about the person who sent it, because it really is an invitation for you to listen and to be curious about the thoughts and feelings that pop up as we all learn together what it looks like to become more like Jesus. All right, Latasha, welcome to the Becoming Church podcast. [00:01:21] Speaker A: Great. It's great to be here. [00:01:23] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm glad I finally hit record since we've been chatting for almost 10 minutes already. [00:01:27] Speaker A: I know, I know, but at least you remembered. I did it one time and I actually forgot, and now I'm no longer in charge of that. Somebody has to be that because we had to rerecord, so. [00:01:40] Speaker B: And it's never the same. You try to, like, never. [00:01:42] Speaker A: It's never the same. And then it's like, you know, you. I wasted someone's time. Time is so precious, and I feel so bad, but they were very gracious to me to. To do it over again, but I was devastated. [00:01:55] Speaker B: I feel that. I feel that. Well, listen, we're not wasting anybody's time today because everybody that's listening, whether they know it now or not, right here, what you're gonna say today. So I'm really, really glad that you are here also. You are giving me Joe Saxton vibes with that bright red lip. [00:02:12] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:02:13] Speaker B: Always had, like. I think the last time I talked to her, she was in, like, a blue phase. [00:02:18] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. She would do blue. Joe would do purple. That's my girl. I love Joe. I love myself some Joe sex. Right? [00:02:27] Speaker B: Red. [00:02:27] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I just, you know, I always keep, you know, something right here by my desk area where I do the podcast where I can grab and put on something, because if you don't put on any Other makeup. Because right now, makeup makes me sweat. [00:02:42] Speaker B: Okay. [00:02:43] Speaker A: And I don't want to sweat. I met that point of life where everything makes me sweat. So I just put on, like, a clear get glaze. We're not talking makeup, but Jones Road. I. I love. Okay. [00:02:59] Speaker B: Yep. [00:02:59] Speaker A: You know, they have this, like, this bomb that you put on. [00:03:03] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:03:03] Speaker A: And then you just do a pop a lip, and that's it. That's all I'm doing right about now. [00:03:07] Speaker B: Done. That is skin care and makeup routine all in one. [00:03:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:03:13] Speaker B: Listen, talk about wasting people's time. This has nothing to do with what we're going to talk about, but the only time that I feel like someone has wasted my time is when I, like, get full on ready for an interview, and then they cancel at the last second, and I'm like, you know, I could have rolled up in here doing Jones Road, and that's it. Like, nothing. [00:03:32] Speaker A: Come on. So much time. But you see, we're here, and we're ready, and, you know, we do hard things. I. I talk about, you know, hard things. I live in hard spaces. We're living in a tough world, so we got to make light of this. You know, we got to enjoy our face bomb and our, you know, lipstick. I'm wearing a little Bobby brown color mix with hourglass. You know, I mix my colors, and so, you know, you got to. We. We have to. I call it just protect our peace, and. And sometimes we protect our peace with the things, the girly things that we like, like makeup and face care and all those things. You know, there's a lot to us. You know, we're complicated, complex beings. [00:04:21] Speaker B: Balance is balance. These are our counterweights. As Shannon. [00:04:23] Speaker A: Yes. Yes. [00:04:26] Speaker B: Well, Latasha, let's talk about it a little bit. I think most people probably know you as the founder of Be the Bridge. So will you tell us, maybe people that are new to you? Like, what about the work that you're doing? [00:04:38] Speaker A: Yes. I started Be the Bridge in 2016, so we're almost coming up to 10 years. I never thought I would be doing this work 10 years later. But thanks be to God that we are here and that we had a head start on this work, and it's been a honor to come alongside God in the work that God is doing in this earth through his people. And so we're just doing our little part in trying to empower people and culture towards racial healing, equity, and reconciliation, even when it's not popular, even when those words have been weaponized. I tell people every day that you know, the opposite of diversity is uniformity. Now find that in the Bible it's not. You know, the opposite, the opposite of equity is inequity. Now find that where, where we are supposed to pursue equality, inequities amongst people. Find that in the Bible it's not. And you know, the opposite of inclusion is exclusion. Find that in the Bible. And so we are a part of God's work in this earth. And I know that we are on the right side of history. And I feel honored to be able to help people grow, that want to grow in their racial literacy and understanding of what biblical justice and biblical reconciliation looks like. So we're going to keep moving and walking forward with those who want to go, because God always has a remnant. You never convince the masses. And that's the thing I have to remember. Every day is like, it's not the masses that transform the world is always a remnant. You know, we are part, brought, adopted into this faith because of a remnant. You know, eating Jesus didn't convince everybody. [00:06:47] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:06:48] Speaker A: You know, the very people that should have recognized he did not convince. But with his 12, we are here today because of that. And so all it takes is a remnant, a committed remnant that's sold out. And I think we have that. [00:07:07] Speaker B: Well, you, I want to ask you, you said you didn't think you'd be here 10 years later. [00:07:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:07:12] Speaker B: Is that because you kind of hoped that society would have made it a little more improvement, a little faster? [00:07:20] Speaker A: Oh, no. Okay. No, I knew what I was signing up for. Listen, I'm dealing with expectation, I'm dealing with centuries old division. You know, we might as well say in some cases biblical division, like. Yeah, you know, we are. I know, I knew that. I think you're supposed to, each generation is supposed to get a little closer to the finish line than, than that before. They're supposed to build a bridge closer to the finish line and you know, run that baton as, as, as fast as you can, as well as you can, while you have breath in your body. But I knew the work of reconciliation, we're just doing our part. But I knew, I know that I won't see it in my lifetime, but it doesn't mean that I don't continue the work. Like when I think about my ancestors and those that came before me, the things that they fought for, many of them never, and the things that they prayed for, many of them never saw it, you know, come to pass. [00:08:26] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:08:26] Speaker A: But here, you know, generations later, here I am, the first one in my family that was born with a full set of rights because my parents were born into Jim Crow era, you know. And so here is. I'm a little bit closer now. Although things are happening to take us back, you know, 50, 60 years, we're going to fight with everything we have to continue this, this, this, this march forward. And so you. And so I do that, you know, because we're. Every generation should leave the earth a little bit better. [00:09:03] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:09:03] Speaker A: You know, so you gotta look for. [00:09:05] Speaker B: Those small victories along. [00:09:06] Speaker A: Yeah, you look for those small victories. And so starting be the bridge. I knew what I was signing up for. I knew I was signing up to be rejected, to. To be talked about, to be ridiculed, to. To be called everything but a child of God for the worthy. Because, I mean, history gives an account. And that's what we've done to every person that's been fighting for racial justice before me. And it continues with those, I would say this generational injustice and just supremacy that continues on, but I think it gets weaker every generation also. And so I think with the same, you know, justice gets more powerful, you know, with every generation. So I think this is the kind of the last hurrah. People trying to maintain control and power, but God is going to have the victory. And I know that I'm on the right side of history. [00:10:21] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:10:22] Speaker B: Amen. [00:10:22] Speaker A: And on the right side. [00:10:26] Speaker B: Well, you've worked with a lot of people as well as churches as a. As a whole, like as groups. What have you seen churches get right about racial reconciliation that encourages you? [00:10:38] Speaker A: You know, there are several churches out there that are leaning into this work. This work takes resilience and it takes courage. You know, we, we talk about be strong and courageous, but do we really believe that? Because it's costly. And so I have had the opportunity, even just within the last couple months, to speak at several churches that are being strong and courageous in the face of opposition. And so one thing that I've seen churches truly embrace this level of discomfort, this level of taking conviction and turning that into lament, which to me causes God to move. You know, it's a. It's a part of our, our worship. And so I've seen churches really continue to lean in. Now, there's a lot of churches that have disappointed me, but that's a part of it, you know, because their story will not be that no one ever told me. Their story will be that someone told me and I refused to listen. And that is a level of accountability. Let me tell you that I don't want you know, we always talk about, like, when we read history, we're like, yes, I would have been marching. I would have been doing this, I would have been doing that, and. And all these things. And it's like, no, you wouldn't, because. [00:12:18] Speaker B: Are you doing it now? [00:12:19] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. If you're not doing it now, if you're saying, like, we're gonna focus on Jesus, that's a deflection, you know, because this work. [00:12:31] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:12:32] Speaker A: In Jesus. Yes, this work is centered in Jesus. And Jesus was for the marginalized. Jesus was for the oppressed. Jesus was for the foreigner. Jesus was for the orphan, the widow. You know, just all of those things. Like, have you read the Sermon on the Mount? The upside down Kingdom of God, you know, and it's costly. But what I'm learning is I'm seeing the weakness also of Christians that. That we. We have a stronghold as it relates to greed, you know, like. Because really, what's driving this, and, you know, even for centuries, is the love of money. Like, people are not willing, you know, you know, to. To give up or to be uncomfortable. You know, we consider wealth as a blessing, and sometimes wealth can be a curse, you know, and. And, you know, and so because. Causes you to be less dependent, you know? [00:13:38] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:13:39] Speaker A: And so. And there's nothing wrong with. With. With. With wealth, as long as there's justice included and Jesus is at the center, you know, So I think it's just something that I've been proud of the churches that are willing to sit with, to lament with, to protect, to listen to, you know, their congregation and really pastor their congregation through these. Just these, I would say, difficult times, you know? You know, because you want a. A past. Even if they don't understand what you're experiencing or going through or what you fear, at least they can sit with it, you know, they can sit with you and have compassion and. And grace and mercy and empathy. The things that people are trying to talk us out of heaven right about now, which is the craziest thing, I'm like, that's the essence of who Christ is. Like, empathy comes from love. Like, compassion comes from love. Yeah. So if you try to love out of the gospel and weaponize it and politicize it, then something is dark and wrong with you. [00:14:54] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [00:14:55] Speaker B: And your interpretation of what you think Jesus was actually saying. [00:14:59] Speaker A: Exactly. We are here because bad exes. Like, we are here, like, oh, my goodness, the hermeneutics. Like, I mean, some bad stuff happening where it's about conquering and division and you know, Combination. [00:15:21] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:15:22] Speaker A: And, you know, and it's like, okay, what about cultivation? What about love? What about caring? Like, you know, like. Yeah, so it's just some stuff, you know, but I. I feel like it's showing itself, you know, in this generation, so it can be wiped out. You know, I gotta believe. I gotta believe that there is a bigger plan at hand. It is showing itself. It's like separating the wheat and the terror. Like, you know, like we're seeing. We know that it was. It was bad theology that got us here, like, you know, in the first place. People try to misconstrue the word of God to say that I was not human, you know. You know, to. People miscrew the word of God to say that any land that they step foot on, it was their land, basically. [00:16:12] Speaker B: Right. [00:16:12] Speaker A: You don't exist. You don't matter because you don't look like me and you can't serve the God that I serve or what like that. Just that type of view. Yeah. So I think, you know, this is time for the. That to be weeded out. And so the only way that you're gonna really deal with bad theology is with good theology. And so we have to become students of the Word. [00:16:43] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:16:43] Speaker A: Right about now. And we have to know the Bible for ourselves. We have to pray. We have to lament. We have to get in our Word, you know, and really be able to give an account, you know, to. To, you know, offend for the. You know, our faith. [00:17:01] Speaker C: So, yeah, I'm on the. [00:17:02] Speaker A: Not a. Benji. As a. Not a vengeance. Yeah. [00:17:10] Speaker B: I'm on the teaching team here at Mosaic, and just a couple weeks ago, I actually did a sermon on worship, and one of my big points was lament. And I was trying. I've learned from you. [00:17:20] Speaker A: Okay. [00:17:21] Speaker B: We need to teach people what lament is and how it's part of worship and how they can lament for not only themselves, but their neighbor, like, when they don't even share the same experiences, but through compassion and empathy. [00:17:34] Speaker A: Yes. [00:17:34] Speaker B: And what we really try to teach our people, like, hey, this is this Bible, you know, the scripture passage we're talking about? But now you go read it this week and, like, what does Holy Spirit tell you? You be a learner. Don't just take what we're also telling you and be like, okay, like, yeah, think about it. [00:17:51] Speaker A: Meditate on that scripture. [00:17:52] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:17:54] Speaker A: I'm taking a spiritual formation class right now. And, you know, there's. There's some scriptures that we have to just meditate on. And, yeah, you know what? You know, it's not. You know, we're just like, okay, and remember, you know, like, what did this mean for them? You know, what did this mean to them? Not just what it means to you. It's more important, like, what did it mean for them in that time in that historical context. Yeah. And then now, how do you apply it. [00:18:27] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:18:28] Speaker A: In today's context. You know, and I think we get that. You know, I. We get this thing like, okay, this is what it means to me. And it's like, no, I want to know what it means to them now. How do you apply it to you? You know, but it's just those things like that. That. That can produce some. Some bad seeds. You know, people just thinking and, you know, and not being thoughtful. [00:18:54] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:18:55] Speaker B: Not actually thinking. Just taking it in and going, okay, like, what does this mean? [00:18:59] Speaker A: Exactly. Exactly. So, yeah. [00:19:02] Speaker B: Latasha. After the murder of George Floyd, it seemed like there were a lot of people in America that started to care more about racial inequality and maybe push back against, like, some of the systemic racism. Did cultural movements like that give you hope when you seem. When there seems to be this rallying of people that, like, do they give you hope, or are you, like, skeptic of when that happens? [00:19:26] Speaker A: You know what? I should have been more skeptical. Like, there were some people that were. Because we should have known history. When there is always a move of what you would say, racial justice. When there is a move, there's always a backlash. There's always rage that comes, you know, okay. You know, sometimes not even decades later. And we can look at that even with the reconstruction. You can look at the history that came after Reconstruction with the. The Hayes Compromise. You know, you can look at when we start talking about the. The civil rights movement, you know, starting in the 50s, kind of dying down, then picking back up. But even after that, with Nixon, you know, you know, so there's a lot of, like, so when you have a lot of policy change, the efforts. What we're dealing with now is efforts that have been 60 years in the making to roll back things that were done in the 60s. I'm like, y' all ain't tired? Like, come on. Like. Like, you should just be tired. Like, I know. I am. You know, like, we. We want all people to flourish. Like, anything that we're. Is not about just one group of people, you know, gaining power and vengeance or anything. It's about the flourishing of all people. You know, we want to see. We want to see you win white people. We want to see the indigenous community win and. And flourish. We want to see the, you know, the Latin community win and flourish, you know, but when that happens, power is shared, control is shared, and people don't want to share. People just stingy. Yeah, stingy and selfish and greedy. And that's what we're dealing with. Some stingy, greedy, selfish, you know, people. And we just need to share. We teach our kids to share, you know, and so, yeah, so I. I would say I was hopeful, though, because it was a beautiful thing to see. I'm in Atlanta and I went to several of the marches at. During that time and. And I was with. On a couple of those because this was before my father passed and my dad went with me to a couple marches. And I just remember even the look in his face, like, these marches were totally different from the 60s because they were so diverse. I saw churches out there, you know, pastors. I. I remember marching with the Asian American church, a South Asian chur. I mean, it was a beautiful sight to see, but that was the fear. [00:22:14] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:22:14] Speaker A: By many people, because this unity. Unity is our strength. You know, division is our kryptonite. You know, unity is our strength. And we saw that out there. And I remember someone who's. They're agnostic and they were in an interview. They write beautiful books, but, like, there's not a lot of hope that come from them. They're not. They're not. They're not a person of faith, you know, so it's not supposed to. They write about what's the reality. Yeah, I like to write about the reality with hope, you know, and so they were. But they said for the first time, and they had tears in their eyes. And this takes me Back to John 17, you know, they had tears in their eyes. Now this is a person, and you would know their name if I said it, but they are not a person of favor. And they said in that interview, and they had tears and they said, I know this is going to surprise a lot of people. And they. Their voice started cracking and they said, for the first time in my life that I can remember, I have hope. [00:23:21] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, yeah. [00:23:24] Speaker A: Because they were seeing something and sensing something and feeling something that they had never sensed and fell before. And it was the unity of God's people. Yeah, People were leaning in, people were lamenting, people were confessing, people were repenting. And the sad part is the fringe element that was. That was kind of transpiring through the church crt that. That whole conversation started within the Southern Baptist snuffed The life out of the move of God that was happening. [00:24:04] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:24:05] Speaker A: You know, and there's gonna be account given for that. [00:24:10] Speaker B: Right. [00:24:10] Speaker A: You know, because it was a lie. [00:24:12] Speaker C: Right, right. [00:24:13] Speaker A: I was called a CRT theorist and I didn't even know what it was. How do you spell it? Like, I was like, some of the people that created it are still alive and I believe they're lawyers, and I think they created it from a secular mindset to try to explain why we're still here. They were thinking critically, why didn't desegregation do what it was supposed to do? Like, but we take these boogeyman things. And I'm not saying that, but I'm saying if the church would be on the right side of history, if the church was the headlights in this conversation and not the tail lights, then there would have been no need for the crt. [00:24:55] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:24:56] Speaker B: Because the movement would have grown and got bigger and kept going and. [00:25:00] Speaker A: Exactly. You know, because the Civil Rights movement, I like to call it, it was revival. It was revival for the black church. It changed because revival, there should be a change in the atmosphere, there should be a change in policy, there should be a change in the culture. Like, it's not just a move of God and we move on and we stay simple like this. The spaces that you intersect should change for the better. And that's what we had with the civil rights movement. [00:25:35] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:25:35] Speaker A: And. And so it is classic. It. It should be classified as revival. It was a move of God. But there were a lot of white churches that missed out on that. Yeah, There are a lot of, you know, churches, you know, denominations that missed out on that. And they're doubling down. Instead of learning and repenting from history, we're doubling down. [00:26:00] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:26:01] Speaker A: In 50, 60 years from now, there's going to be another generation repenting about what happened in 2025 and 2024. History keeps the receipts and history gives an account. Always. [00:26:14] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:26:15] Speaker B: You know, do you think it's scarcity? Like, scarcity mindset and. And fear? Because there is. Right. There's this, like, there's these cultural tides where we see the movement and we see the revival and then it drops off? [00:26:28] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I think. I think it is. It's. All of this is driven by fear. [00:26:33] Speaker B: Sure. [00:26:34] Speaker A: It's all of it. Like the whole fear of power and control. Because this country has always been afraid that those that have been a marginalized and oppressed would one day gain power and do the same to them. [00:26:49] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:26:49] Speaker A: And that. And that's what it all boils down to. Okay, and, you know, and let's call a spade a spade in this. And let's speak truth to power and nobody listen. Black folk. I can't speak for the indigenous community or the Latin, but I could speak for Latasha Morrison and. And what history shows us. Where have you seen uprisings of vengeance anywhere in history? You know what I'm saying? Like, it. And recently, like, no, it's been always about, like, equity. You know, treat everyone equally, let us all flourish. Don't create policy and systems to hold us back. But now, because of marginalization, you know, you have to do it. I always explain this thing like, well, say, for instance, you had these children, and one child you gave everything. You did everything they can you could do for that child to succeed. And this other child you ignored. You didn't give them the proper nutrition, the proper education. All of these things that you did not do for this child. That you did for the. This other child. [00:28:03] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:28:03] Speaker A: So then you have this. This. This. This turning of heart, this conviction, this. You repent about it, and you say, I'm gonna treat my kids both, you know, equally. [00:28:16] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:28:17] Speaker A: Now, there's a lot of damage done to that one child that was held back, that was oppressed, that was marginalized. There was a lot done. So treating them equally is not going to be. It's not going to really make a difference. You're going to have to do something that's equitable. But equitable is not saying you mistreat the other child. Now the other child, you know, equity may feel like oppression because they're not getting all of everything now. They're having to share, and maybe they don't want to share. [00:28:46] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [00:28:48] Speaker A: So. So think about that. So. And that's what, you know, the. The systems and policies that came out of, you know, the 70s and the 60s and the 80s was only to make right the wrong that was done. It was not to replace or to reverse oppression and marginalization. It was to make right the wrongs that have been done. And I think that's the thing. And if anybody should understand repair and redemption, we should understand that. You know, you think about just some of the. Just the product, the story of the prodigal son, you know that too. When you look at that, there's. There's equity there. [00:29:37] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:29:37] Speaker A: You know, was he deserving? You know, because he spend everything. You don't know. [00:29:43] Speaker B: Right. [00:29:44] Speaker A: But because of his father's love, you know, he was restored. God is in the business of restoration, you know, and we can. We can think Bible story at the Bible story parable. At the parable. You think about the Good Samaritan and all these different things. And. And so. But a lot of us, we hear the word, but we don't know the word, you know, or we're ignoring the word. And so we've turned a hard heart and we've created God in our own image. And that's what we're seeing a lot of as it, you know, relates to this nationalistic mentality as we've created, you know, God in our own image. Like, God only cares about America. [00:30:28] Speaker B: Like, Right. [00:30:30] Speaker A: He. There's not one nation or tribe that can make up the totality of who God is. It takes every nation, every tribe. We see that. We're going to see that in Revelation 7, 9. You know, we see that in the beginning at Genesis and who God chooses, you know, to become Israel. And we see that throughout biblical history, how God always takes the underdog. [00:30:57] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:30:58] Speaker A: And restores and redeems and revives and records all the time. [00:31:03] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:31:04] Speaker A: And so. And God will continue. [00:31:07] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:31:08] Speaker A: You know, so we can change the narrative. We can try to erase history. We can try to say, oh, no, no, we the oppressed and like all of these things, we can do that as we want. But it's a lie. [00:31:19] Speaker C: Right. [00:31:19] Speaker A: And the truth is going to always set us free. And the truth is always going to pierce, you know, light is always going to pierce darkness. And so, you know, I'm just praying that I get to see it. Yeah. Yeah. [00:31:34] Speaker B: Well, you. Speaking of healing and restoration, you wrote Be the bridge in 2019, and then recently you put out Brown Faces, White Spaces Converting Systemic Racism to bring healing and restoration. And I had to get this one to sit next to Be the bridge on my shelf, because I've had that one up there for a good number of years now. So now we've got this one too. [00:31:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:31:57] Speaker B: For people that want to do their work, obviously, obviously the church should be. We should be the driving. We should be driving this. We should be the leaders, you know, but for people who want to do their own work outside of the church, how does this book equip them to do that? What is this going to help them to do? [00:32:12] Speaker A: Yeah, this is, you know, I'm all about racial literacy because sometimes I like to start from the place that when people know better, they do better. [00:32:20] Speaker C: We hope so. [00:32:21] Speaker A: And so I like to create resources and tools and events and resources that help people know better. [00:32:29] Speaker C: Okay. [00:32:30] Speaker A: You know. [00:32:30] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:32:31] Speaker A: And so I like for. To take people from this Place of awareness. Now, if you are just not completely denying any truth, I, I can't. That's a heart condition, and I can't. I'm not in the business of transforming hearts. That is the spirit of God has to do that right now when that happens and you're like, okay, I don't. I'm aware that there's some broke. I just don't understand it all. But I'm. I'm willing to listen. If you're in that heart posture of humility, then we got something to work with. [00:33:01] Speaker B: Yeah, but if you got a resource for you. [00:33:03] Speaker A: Yeah, but if you're like, there's no such thing as systemic racism at all, telling the black person whose parents that was born in Jim Crow, whose grandfather was paid less, whose grandfather was in the military and, you know, couldn't use his GI Bill like you, like, like when I have all this live history, then I don't have time for that. I'm gonna go with those who want to go. And I'm not wasting my breast, breath or energy on people like that. So I will ignore you. I'm good at ignoring people. I will ignore you. You know, is that hard for you. [00:33:36] Speaker B: To get to that place? No, no. [00:33:40] Speaker A: I'm a nine. And so with the eight wing and I, I can ignore you. Like, I am, I am. I feel like I'm very kind and nice and generous, but I'm still that girl. Like, you know, and so, you know, I'm not. I'm not playing with foolishness. Yeah, I'm not. Yeah, I got work to do, but I don't have time to waste breath on. On people like that. I just say, God help your people. I pray for people like that. And I've seen people transform, you know, where they, you know, didn't believe, now they believe. You know, I've seen, I see it happen in our trainings all the time, where people are given context and that's why the whole erasure and to keep people ignorant because you can control people that way. Yeah, but. Yeah, so I wrote that you this last book because during 2020, one of the things that I saw that people lacked was this understanding of systemic racism, you know, and so I wanted to kind of look at, you know, nine different systems and explain, you know, this is how systemic racism looked in those systems. This is a way that also we can redeem those spaces. So I don't like to leave people just with the problem. But how do we rect. Unify it? How can we come together? How can we Unify to deal with those systems, how can we do our part? And, you know, and so that's that. And then also given some hope. I think it gives people hope because I think in this work you got to like, I need to have hope, you know, some expectancy of how God would move, how God has moved, and how God would continue to move. And so that helps me. And I think, you know, it's. It's practical tools about, you know, about confessing our sins. Like, if anybody should understand about restoration, we should as Christians. And we know even a process in our faith is that of confessing our sins. And so the fact that we don't want to confess our wrongs, but we want to say that we're a Christian nation, but we don't want to confess anything that we've done is I call bull crap. Like. Like God is not anywhere in that, you know, is it. It. It's totally against scripture, but people say these things with their full chest. [00:36:13] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:36:13] Speaker A: And I'm like, just with their full chest. Like, they're right, and we got to call them on the mess. You know, we gotta. We gotta point people to scripture on why confession, repentance, why faith without works is, you know, is. Is dead. You know, what did James say? You know what, you know what I'm saying? We got. What did pa. But most importantly, what did Jesus say? Yeah, you know what I'm saying? You know, and I think we have to remind people of what Jesus said and, and, and, and really keep that at the center of this, you know, because people have created this, this, this supremacy image of God. That is blasphemy, you know, that is heretical. Like, I mean, it's, it's not of God. It's heresy, you know, and, and so I think we have to continue to call that out. And it's. And it's half the church. Like, that's the sad part. It's like a lot. [00:37:13] Speaker B: Get your people. Come and get them. [00:37:14] Speaker A: Yes. People that we thought knew God. And it's like, what God did, you know, like, you know, but I do believe, like, in God's redemption, like, even in that I pray, you know, for God to redeem, for God to redeem. I feel like people have been bamboozled, tricked, hoodwinked. All the things that we say, you know, they have been really deceived by the enemy. And a lot of people think they're doing the things that they're doing in the name of Christ. Like, they really believe that. I never understood spiritual blindness. Like, I do right now. [00:37:59] Speaker B: Okay, I want to talk about this a little bit more because I do. Like, your book is really good at. Like you said, you educate and you challenge and you encourage. But it sounds like, and it feels like, from what I can see, that it's harder for people to do the confession part and even to like, recognize that racial disparity even exists. Why do you think that is harder than actually getting in and doing the work of reconciliation? [00:38:27] Speaker A: Yeah, I think because, you know, a lot of times people are, people are afraid, people feel attacked. Like, like we live in a society that is not collective and the Bible is very collective. So what, you know, God judges Israel and now God judges the church. Okay. And so there's a disconnect that we have from one another. And so I think people are, are. I think there's a fear, there is a real fear that, you know, that I can even lament and understand what people are, are fear. But when you look at the fear, what's driving the fear? The fear is that I, I'm not going to be in control or we are going to be outnumbered. [00:39:28] Speaker C: Okay. [00:39:30] Speaker B: And then what's going to happen to me and mine? [00:39:32] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. So it's very individualistic thinking. [00:39:36] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:39:37] Speaker A: And we have to think collectively, you know, what, what impacts one, impacts the other. You know, Scripture tells us if one part of the body suffers, we all suffer with it. You know what I'm saying? Like, everything is collective. Like, when there was sin in the camp, like, you know, everybody lost it. When we see, you know, when we think about the church growing and flourishing and, and, and, and the move of God spreading was because there was unity, you know, not uniformity, but unity that was happening. So when they had instances to rise up to, to happen, you know, within the founding of the church, in acts, you know. [00:40:23] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:40:24] Speaker A: There were ways that they came about to resolve those issues that actually meant that some that were in power had to give up, up power. But it wasn't, but it wasn't that those people then became oppressed. It was like they shared power like you were supposed to, for the good of all people. For the good of all. Like, we, we are here and adopted into a faith because power has been shared with us when we were undeserving, you know. [00:40:53] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:40:54] Speaker A: And so I think we have to realize those things. And so, you know, and I, I, so although there, there is like, like I said, I. When I'm reconciling now is to realize, because I think it breaks my heart to see so many churches and leaders and pastors deceived or in silence. But I'm not. What I think the Lord convicted me is not to focus on them, not to focus on the people that aren't saying anything, but focus on the people that are saying things, you know, to, to, to pray for them. That God would give them strength, that God would protect them, that God would add to the, you know, to their church. Because I believe those are the churches that are going to grow as we push toward the future, you know, because a lot of this is showing us up. There are people now that didn't understand systemic racism but now are seeing it, it's being revealed or, you know, they didn't understand. And there's some people that are regretting some of the decisions or, you know, are repenting over that. And so maybe this will drive people toward repentance and confession, you know, and, you know, even, even, even myself, we can get comfortable in this world and we can, we can turn inward and say, long as mine, me and mine are good, then we're good. But that's not kingdom minded. Right. And what do we truly understand? What it means to be kingdom minded. Like, so kingdom minded also means that I care about that Christian in Haiti, you know. [00:42:36] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:42:37] Speaker A: Being kingdom mind because we are connected. It means that I care about, you know, that Christian in Sudan. [00:42:46] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:42:47] Speaker A: That Christian in Palestine. [00:42:49] Speaker C: Yep. [00:42:49] Speaker A: That Christian in Israel, that Christian in Germany. And you know, and not just that Christian, but anybody. [00:43:00] Speaker C: Yes. [00:43:00] Speaker A: That is being oppressed and marginalized. That I should care. And it doesn't mean that I have to agree with everything or understand everything, but I am called to love. [00:43:14] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:43:15] Speaker B: And a love that actually honors the imago day of that person. A love that's not just like, of course I love them. No. But like how, how do you love them? How did they know that you love them? [00:43:26] Speaker A: Yeah, there was one thing. I, you know, I think that if we could embrace this, like, if we, if we embrace reconciliation and discipleship, because like this right here, what we're dealing with, like to me, a part of your, our spiritual formation should be teaching biblical justice and righteousness. Like, and when we teach that, we, we're teaching that for everyone, you know, and so this, so when we start talking about racial injustice, like if we're talking about biblical justice and righteousness, those things should be a part of that, just like how we teach about other things. And so I, I do believe that if we embrace that as a church, if the church really got this, that it will transform the witness of the church because the witness of the church has been impacted. Like, you know, I mean, even be the bridge. I was like, you know, and you know, this is me being cocky in my sis, you know, but like, how we're all broken, you know, and we all can center self at some point. But I just was like, jesus need new PR Like. Like, yeah, like, you know, he needs some new PR Because, Lord, terrible. We're horrible, you know, but, you know, Jesus don't need me, you know. Yeah, I need Jesus. Yeah. But you know what I'm saying? And so I think just that perspective. But I'm just saying, like, but our witness is a reflection of who God is. And we, you know, that they will know me by the love that we have for one another. And I think that is important. You know, if Jesus could have prayed anything in that garden, like, if I was about to go to the cross. Let me tell you about to be. Basically, you know, I can't even think of the word right now because it just left me. But like, yeah. Betrayed by, you know, someone that I loved. Like, I don't know if I would be praying for unity. [00:45:45] Speaker B: For those yet to come. [00:45:46] Speaker A: Yeah. Yes. I don't think I would be praying that. But that's what Jesus prayed. And from that very moment, the unity has been attacked. Unity is our strength. [00:45:58] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:45:59] Speaker A: And. And you know, and I think that is something that we have to remember. I've been telling everybody to go back and read the Gospels. Just go through the Gospels this year, read them a couple times, you know, and. And just pray that. That the Lord would open your eyes to see, you know, and. And I'm praying that there's some things, like where, you know, how sometimes things are done and you're like, yeah, yeah. Then something said. And you're like, wait a minute now. Like, I'm. I'm praying for a lot of. Wait a minute. Like moments like I missed this before. Yeah. That are gonna wake people up, that something would be said, something would be done, something that would, like, that would disturb their peace, conviction, you know, that would happen. That would cause people to. To awaken to truth and righteousness, you know. So. [00:46:58] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:47:00] Speaker B: Amen. I'm gonna pray for you with that. That's great. That's great. Well, you have mentioned a couple times about the erasure of history just in our conversation. Yeah, I know. Even on the time of recording. You did a post today on social media and you were talking about, you know, defunding museums and edits on school books. And it does feel like we are Taking things to a whole new level lately. [00:47:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:47:24] Speaker B: When it comes to the erasure of history, just. Can you talk to us a little bit about why is it happening for people that really don't know? Like, what is the danger in it? You know, what are your thoughts on that? [00:47:36] Speaker A: Listen to this. There's no other thing. There's no other, there's no other thing. If we say that, if we don't talk about it, it's just, it's going to get better. Like, you know, think about that. They're taking artifacts out at a black history museum. You know, that is, that is crazy. That, I mean, what type of fear and how. What does that say about you? What lack of confidence. [00:48:02] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:48:02] Speaker A: Must you have of just suffer like that that you feel taking something out of a museum is going to make you feel better? Like you, if you, if you hate this history so much, why are we continuing to create. Yes. History. [00:48:20] Speaker B: Let's not perpetuate it. [00:48:22] Speaker A: Yes, yes, we're perpetuated. All we're doing is washing and rinsing, washing and rinsing. And it's like, if you're so embarrassed by or shamed by it, why are you still creating? How about make some new history, some better history, you know, and, and, and you know, and even, you know, like, I mean, could you imagine us doing that? The Holocaust was bad. It was horrible, it was horrific, it was wrong. But could you imagine taking artifacts out of that? Or could you imagine going to Germany and them, you know, changing the history of what happened during the Holocaust, you know, to say, you know, it wasn't that bad. Like, you know, not 10, you know, you know, millions didn't die, only thousands, you know, like, you know, like, we. [00:49:11] Speaker B: Just stop talking about it. It'll just like eventually go away. [00:49:13] Speaker A: You know what. And as a matter of fact, we're going to turn these concentration camps into wedding venues. That's what we're doing. That's what we're going to do. And, and that's what we've constantly done. In any country that doesn't face this history, we're headed down a very slippery slope. And it's just all this fragility to make yourself feel bad. And we're letting people who are, have been part of the problem. These people are like over 70 years old, you know, that are, are making a lot of these decisions, trying. And, but we're allowing them to do it. We the people have the power. And until we get mad enough. And I'm just gonna say this, I'm gonna Say until white people get mad enough. [00:50:00] Speaker B: Say it. [00:50:00] Speaker A: We're gonna be headed in the same direction. White people got to get mad, you know? [00:50:06] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:50:06] Speaker A: People of color have been mad. We've been saying this is, we've been saying this not for decades, but for centuries. [00:50:13] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:50:15] Speaker A: You know, we, you know, like, like, my mom is only, my mom is 72 years old. Okay. She was born into, to, to segregation, you know, and she was born in 1953. So all of this is so triggering to people. I'm only one generation removed from that one generation. And we act like it was so long ago. [00:50:42] Speaker C: Right. [00:50:42] Speaker A: You know, and, and, and so I think, you know, you're never gonna, you can take stuff out of museums and all, but you're not going to take things out of people's mind, their mouth and their heart. [00:50:52] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:50:53] Speaker A: You know, we're going to continue to write, we're going to continue to produce. Like, we are a society that has only known democracy. You know, we're not Russia, we're not hungry. You know what I'm saying? We, we have only known democracy. And I'm just praying that people continue to wake up, you know, and not let, you know, really, like a non majority group of people take life from us, you know, and, and so we are called to care about not just our own, but the other. [00:51:32] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:51:33] Speaker A: And who is the other? [00:51:35] Speaker B: Right, right. Who is being oppressed right now? [00:51:37] Speaker A: Yes, right now. Who is being oppressed right now? And that is who we're supposed to care about. And so, but this, you know, I, I, each day I'm like, okay, Lord, show us the opportunities in this, you know, show us, you know, how, how do we make this right? How do we help people learn and grow? How do we disciple people into truth? Because truth does matter. Truth is always matter. [00:52:06] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:52:07] Speaker A: You know, I am the way, the truth and the light, you know, So I, I, I just, you know, I think that is just something that we, we must remember and we have to remember to recall. But you know, I, like, like I'm thinking about the museum and the, when facts don't matter. [00:52:29] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:52:29] Speaker A: What is dangerous, like, all of that stuff was curated by historians, people who, and not to make anyone feel bad, but to lift up those who have been oppressed to tell the story so that we won't repeat it again. That's it. [00:52:49] Speaker B: So we know, hey, if you go down this path. [00:52:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:52:52] Speaker B: Here's where it leads. [00:52:53] Speaker A: Yeah. But at the same time, restore history. [00:52:57] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:52:57] Speaker A: That has brought harm to groups of people. [00:53:00] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:53:01] Speaker A: We want to Restore that. So that's like in Germany, restoring Nazism, like putting up monuments of. Of Nazis and saying, you know, get. Get over it. But that's. I mean, that's basically what it's like. Like, you know, get over it, you know, and so history matters on. In that sense, but not on the other sense. So it's just like, we just need to think critically, and we really have to stay grounded in prayer and in community and make sure that we. We. We celebrate the wins that we lament, we take moments of rest, you know, and we take care of each other. And I pray that during this season that those who are part of this work, we will be drawn closer together and not apart, because there's going to be so many things that come at us that it. All. It does. All this aimed at is to. To. To disconnect us, to separate us, to divide us. And so right now, I cannot be mad at the Latino community. You know, you know, I'm like, let's find common ground. [00:54:18] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:54:18] Speaker A: You know, the Asian America could be. Let's find common ground. You know, the indigenous community. Let's find common ground. The, you know, white community. Let's find common ground. And then also all these little categories that we got, all that stuff gonna be burned, you know, it doesn't. You know, it's gonna. These racial categories, Ethnicity matters, but these race categories are from the pit of hell, you know, but. But we have to find these commonalities and come together. And then we saw a glimmer of what that could do, you know, in 2020. And I think that is the. That was the fear, and that's why we're here today. [00:54:56] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:54:57] Speaker A: This is the backlash from the unification of what happened in 2020. [00:55:03] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:55:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:55:04] Speaker B: Okay. Well, I have two more questions. [00:55:06] Speaker A: Okay. [00:55:06] Speaker B: And I am an enneagram3, but I am. That is still an aggressive stance, like an 8. So my first question is going to be a little bit more of a challenge. [00:55:15] Speaker A: Okay. [00:55:16] Speaker B: And then I will. We'll ease it up for the last. [00:55:18] Speaker A: Okay. Okay. Okay. [00:55:19] Speaker B: You mentioned, like, white people need to get angry. Right. Like, we need to get mad. We need to care. What have you seen to be the most effective in helping white people, majority culture people actually care enough to, like, wake up and do something. [00:55:34] Speaker A: Yeah. I think when. I think it's important for white people to understand white culture. [00:55:42] Speaker C: Okay. [00:55:43] Speaker A: And white identity. [00:55:45] Speaker C: Okay. [00:55:46] Speaker A: Because you're not just the norm. It's not just like. Like there is a culture at play. [00:55:54] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:55:55] Speaker A: You know, and sometimes we conflate that with, you know, Christian culture is very white culture. Like, you know, it's not because Christianity is global. [00:56:05] Speaker B: Right. [00:56:07] Speaker A: So when you think about some of the culture that we're seeing, you know, I think it's important for, to understand that also, you know, identity and, and really to get in touch what was lost. So when you think about racism, like everybody pays the calls with it, you know, white people pay a cost with it. Black people, like everybody plays a cause when we're not all flourishing and there's something that we're all missing out on and losing when, when, when these, this, this sin, the sin is, is, is got us all in the death lock, you know. [00:56:48] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:56:48] Speaker A: And so there's something that we're all missing out on and I think it's, it's important for us to, to pause, take account, to really lean into the discomfort. [00:57:04] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:57:05] Speaker A: And to ask yourself, okay, just think, thinking critically for just a moment, like, why am I so upset with this? Why does this, you know, just really interrogate like the why? [00:57:17] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:57:19] Speaker A: You know, why. Why am I so afraid that white people will lose power? And how does that line up up with Scripture? Like truly? Because, well, some people feel like, you know, like white people are God's chosen people, you know, so, so like, okay, so prove that in scripture. [00:57:45] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:57:46] Speaker A: Exegetically, like, look like, do some research on it. Because the, the KKK was a Christian organization. They called themselves, they were God fearing people. So they were like, you know, like, like Bill, Bill Connor, like all those people, they were deacons in church and all of those things. [00:58:07] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:58:07] Speaker A: So say now how does that truly line up with the message of Jesus? You know, how, how did Jesus treat those that were marginalized? [00:58:20] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:58:21] Speaker A: And what does scripture tell me? You know, read James, read the book of James, read Luke, read Luke. You know, like. And so I think it's important that we just, you know, ask the why, you know, why am I so afraid? You know, And I think sometimes when we start looking at the answer back, you know, and, and I think another thing that white people can do is decenter. One of the things we talk about in some of our trainings is the de centering where, where you are the center of everything. Because think about this. In eternity you're not going to be the center of everything, you know, And I mean, think about like, are you really gonna like it? [00:59:06] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:59:07] Speaker A: So how do I start dealing with that sin now where, you know, where I'm de centered? And I think about this even as an American, like, you know, we all have this little American arrogance, like, where we kind of center ourselves in other people's spaces. We go to other countries and we're like, this American exceptionalism, Like, we don't do it like this. Why are we doing like this? Like, just that same thing, how we send. Because, you know, like, even as a person of color, we. We are in. We are like, although I'm more collective, I'm still. I still live in a very individualistic society. And so when I see myself doing that, I call it out in myself, you know, why do I think I'm better than someone? Because I live in America. Yeah, we are not the apple of God's eye. [00:59:57] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:59:58] Speaker A: You know, and so just, just. And I think those are just things that we can practice and think about this, because if you don't like it now, like, do you think, like, in eternity there's going to be, like, a black side, you know, indigenous? Like. Like, are we really thinking that? [01:00:16] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [01:00:17] Speaker A: You know, like, we are. Yeah. We only want to hear English, so Jesus didn't speak English, you know, so those are some things that I think we have to de. Center ourselves, start making that a practice. And how you do that. And all of this you can't do alone. You need to get mentors, you need to get education, you need to read books, you need to get resources. You need to be in community of people who are diverse and. And that are different from you. You know, you're. You have to learn from other people. You know, and so those are the things I think that we have to. Some things that I think the church, my white brothers and sisters can do. And then, you know, even as. As a person of color, I need to know, like, we can play these oppression olympics, like, you know, like, trying to pit, you know, you know, us against each other where, you know, where. It's important for me to learn the indigenous story. It's important for me to understand, you know, you know, what various groups of Asian Americans, because we. We just lump everybody together. But there's a different experience as a. As a Chinese, Japan, Japanese, Taiwanese, you know, you know, Vietnamese, you know, Philippines. Like, I mean, we. Those are different groups of people, right? You know, different ethnicities and they speak different languages. So it's important for me to learn and to understand that. And only thing. Only way you're going to do that is by getting a community following people that don't think like you, online reading books written by people like, you know, that are different from you. So I think, you know, I think proximity is a Part of it, it's not the all in all, because, you know, people who own slaves were in proximity to slaves, but it didn't change them. So. [01:02:14] Speaker B: Right. [01:02:14] Speaker A: You know, and so hopefully. Yeah, so don't just think proximity, but what, what are you doing in proximity? Are you taking up space? Are you listening and learning and lamenting? And I think that's important to listen, to learn, to lament. We take it on to some people say, we say leverage, I legislate love, you know, all the L's, all the L's, you know, so in the, in those spaces, you know, if you go, if you're going to a multi ethnic church, are you listening? Are you learning? You know, you know, can you, can you go to a, you know, a predominantly African American church and sit and learn and glean and without taking up a lot of space where you got to take over? You know what I'm saying? You know, the same thing. We, we do that often, but can it be done in the reverse? You know, can it be done in the reverse? So, so much to say about that, so little time. [01:03:16] Speaker B: No, that's perfect. And you actually answered my last question too, because I usually ask people, because the show is called Becoming Church, you know, what can people listening do to become the church, the people around them. But you just answered that for everybody, Natasha, so. [01:03:32] Speaker A: That'S good. But you know what? Conversations like this, you know, these conversations give hope, you know, because there's someone out there that's listening to saying, like, oh my God, I'm so glad that someone is saying the things that are in my heart. Or, you know, it's resonating with people. And then there's some people that this is gonna challenge. They, they're gonna. But what I do, what I would say to those people, if this is challenging, you sit with it, sit with it and say, and that's God, like, lord, why is this challenging me? You know, what was said that was so uncomfortable for me? And why am I uncomfortable with that? Sometimes we like to point at other people for our discomfort, but really it's for us to interrogate ourselves because it could be conviction. [01:04:22] Speaker B: Right? What is Holy Spirit doing in me? [01:04:24] Speaker A: In this? Yes, yes. [01:04:26] Speaker B: Maybe through you. And it's annoying, but like, what is happening in me? [01:04:29] Speaker A: Yes, yes. But I've seen people like, and, and you know, we have these, be the bridge groups in this One white woman said that, you know, in the part of confession, that's a part of this did our transformational pathway, and she said that she had never like, it made her pay attention to the things she was thinking and saying. And like, where did that thought come from? From like what, what was planted there? That I. That I feel that or I think that. And so she said that when she would see successful people of color, especially successful African American families or especially women, she would feel like this jealousy of a point that the reason why they have what they have is because something was taken from me. [01:05:18] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:05:19] Speaker B: Scarcity mentality. [01:05:20] Speaker A: And yeah, and so it's, it's like, okay, now, okay, you could, like now let's sit with that. And now think about where did that come from? And that's probably generationally. Oh, I'm sure when someone planted a seed, you know, or said that, or she was, you know, maybe she was discipled that way. Yeah, the scarcity mentality. And you think about that like, does God not have enough? [01:05:48] Speaker B: Right. [01:05:49] Speaker A: Could God not be blessing, you know, all people? [01:05:55] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:05:55] Speaker A: You know, could that person have worked really hard and gone to school and did the things that they were supposed to do and then what you deem as successful on the outside, really, like, did you even have a conversation with them? Like, you know, but those are just things. And, and this is what we're seeing a lot play out from the highest places in government, you know, where it's like the fear of successful non white people. [01:06:23] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [01:06:25] Speaker B: You know, well, hopefully this conversation, like you said, people will share it with their friends and their family members and we can just get a lot of people thinking. [01:06:36] Speaker A: Yeah. So, yeah, we're, we're out here and we're helping do our little part. We're going to be launching a app with our own community at the end of the month that people can join and start engaging in learning. Like, this is not the time to put our head in the sand. This is not the time to think that, you know, what we say and do doesn't matter. This is not the time to be silent. We all have our parts to play and it may look different. Everybody is not going to be on the street, you know, but there are, you know, but having conversations with those in your, your family and your community. You know, everybody's role is different, you know, and so I think get in community with people to help, you know, form you, disciple you, and empower you in the spaces that you're going to be in. So, yeah, we really need to come together during this time and don't let anyone or anything divide us. And, you know, talking about race is not dividing us. [01:07:47] Speaker C: Yeah. Amen. [01:07:48] Speaker A: You know, it's making some people mad. Yeah. But it's not dividing us because, yes, truth can only bring us together at the end. [01:07:57] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:07:58] Speaker A: You know so well. [01:07:59] Speaker B: I just love you. Thank you for the work that you're doing. Thank you for leading the way. And not only leading the way and like, like showing us what to do, but truly reaching back and being like, okay, now, come on. [01:08:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:08:08] Speaker B: Everybody come. Everybody come. [01:08:10] Speaker A: Right? We have so many tools. Like, there's so many books that are written, like, way more than what my mom. My mom's generation had. So. Yeah. [01:08:19] Speaker B: Well, thank you so much. [01:08:21] Speaker A: Thank you so much, Kristen. I keep wanting to say Kristen with the eye. That's okay. [01:08:27] Speaker B: You can't. [01:08:28] Speaker A: One of my friends, she has a Kristen with that. She's like, Kristen with I. So. Yeah. So it was great. Yeah. Keep doing what you're doing. Oh, thank you. [01:08:43] Speaker B: Okay. I am praying for those. Wait a minute. Moments that she talked about. If you had one while you were listening or someone came to mind during this conversation, lean in like Latasha said, and follow that nudge. Send this episode, share it on social media, Start the conversation. Maybe for you, you need to sign up, to march, to vote, or to volunteer. Read and learn and listen in humility, not being afraid to ask, why do I believe this? If you're interested in doing more, but you need resources, or if you feel like you're alone in the process, I've linked up. Be the bridge in the show notes so you can get connected to a community of people who are doing the same. I'm really proud of you for being here now. Now, let's take it one step further by embracing our discomfort for the good of all people. Thanks so much for listening. And until next time, keep becoming the church to the people around you.