Episode Transcript
[00:00:10] Speaker A: Welcome to Becoming church, the podcast where we discuss how the message and movement of Jesus is not just about becoming christians, but about becoming the church. I'm your host, Kristin Mochler Young, and my guest today is Liz Young. What's special about Liz is that we are actually related. She is married to my husband's cousin. So we are both part of this big, beautiful extended family that spans generations and state lines and personalities. And while it's always fun to get together with such a large family, I have to tell you that Liz is someone I always want to talk to. And I'm so excited that I get to spend time with her on the rare occasion when we're all together because Liz just has this really special way of looking at the world, and I always somehow feel lighter after spending time with her. She writes from multiple publications and authors, including Joanna Gaines, Magnolia Journal, and anthropologies Haven magazine. And I could not be more thrilled. I was so excited when I found out that she was putting out a book of her own. If you like Joanna Gaines and Vosskamp or other people who truly create beauty with their words, you will want to grab let their behavior by Liz Young and add it to a shelf in your home immediately, because I probably already embarrassed her. Enough with this introduction. Let's get into my the conversation with Liz Young.
I'm so excited. I told our listeners a little bit about you in the introduction, but this is special because this is the first family member conversation that I've gotten to have.
[00:01:41] Speaker B: Oh, I was wondering if you were gonna, like you just pull back the curtain and let everybody know. Yes, I love it. It's my first two. Yes.
[00:01:50] Speaker A: Super exciting. And we both married into the family. We are both married and youngs to cousins.
[00:01:57] Speaker B: That's right. That's right. And I love being in it with you.
[00:02:00] Speaker A: So, yes, it's definitely one of those special extended families where, like, I forget who's, quote unquote part of the family and who's married in. Cause it's just like this one big happy, you know, it is.
[00:02:12] Speaker B: There's a lot of weavings in and outs and it's huge and hilarious and all the stuff. Yes, it's a good family.
[00:02:20] Speaker A: We are going to get into your book in just a second, but I also want to guarantee the people that are listening that I am nothing inviting you on only because you are a cousin, but because this book is genuinely so lovely. I was like, there is no way I can not introduce it to people. So before we get there, will you tell people that are listening just about your sweet family and, like, what you do with your days.
[00:02:43] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, sure. So we have Ryan and I have three kids. They are 1513 and nine.
And so it's summer. So I'll just give you a typical. This is what's happening right now. A few of them are out getting donuts. Excellent. We'll see if I get one coming back to me.
Ryan is out fixing medical equipment, so that's his job. He's in the back of an ambulance somewhere.
Somebody's probably watching trolls or playing call of duty. Someone's shooting baskets.
Someone's hopefully mowing the grass pretty soon. So, you know, it's summer. It's a hodgepodge.
And then I try to kind of scale back my work during the summer, but I freelance. And so usually I'm writing a story or, you know, doing some kind of brand work for a company.
Just finished working on somebody else's book. So it's. There's like a lot of different little pieces that go on. It's not a super consistent. Every day is the same, but maybe that's everybody's life. Yeah. Yeah. A little bit of routine, but a lot of. A lot of spontaneity, too.
[00:03:56] Speaker A: That's so great, especially in the summer. Summer has to have a little bit of freedom, a little bit of chaos, I guess.
[00:04:03] Speaker B: So. I mean, it's inevitable. So I don't know how to avoid it.
[00:04:08] Speaker A: Yeah. So you mentioned, Liz, I know that you write for different publications and help different people with their books. How do you decide what writing projects you're going to take on? Is there, like, a certain thing that you look for?
[00:04:20] Speaker B: Well, when I started out, I mean, it was just good to get writing projects. You know, I was like, oh, great, you want me as a writer? I'll take it. I think, you know, you get further, further down the line, and I think both. I get asked to do things that align with, you know, my aesthetic and heart now that. Now that I have been into it for some years. But I'm also. I still can.
I wouldn't say. I guess I'm kind of choosy. There have been a few things that I've turned down recently because I just didn't love the direction it was going or didn't feel like I could offer what they needed.
I do try to protect, you know, time with our family, and now, you know, I'm trying to sort of save time to really, like, enjoy the process of this book and getting it out, so.
But, yeah, I do love helping other people with words and design, and so. And I've always enjoyed working. That's the other thing. So, like, it does give me a lot of life, and so I do. The hybrid is good. Um, I tried not working and homeschooling, and I think I'm a better mom now this way.
So little.
[00:05:38] Speaker A: I taught kindergarten for a long time, and the pandemic showed me that I am still a better mom than I am a homeschool teacher. That was not. And they were even, like, in my sweet spot ages. And, yes.
[00:05:52] Speaker B: No, not for the faint of heart.
[00:05:56] Speaker A: Well, for people that I know, we're introducing you, hopefully, to a lot of new listeners, what would you say your vibe and aesthetic is or your heart and your aesthetic is if you had to just kind of categorize it and put it out there for people?
[00:06:11] Speaker B: That's a good question.
I love getting to create in a way that's right. In a way that's very approachable.
When I started out, I think I was really excited about just being in the craft of writing, and it got a little bit complex and, you know, a little bit extra melancholy. But I think as I've, well, grown up.
But in just getting to, you know, I've done a lot of ghost writing and brand writing, so I got to try on a lot of different styles and voices. Yeah. But my favorite thing is just making people feel like they've been given something, that they're safe in a place that they feel understood. I like a little bit of dreaminess, but also, like, I want it to feel grounded so that it's not just ethereal, you know?
And so, I mean, I think writing, like, for magnolia has been. Has been a pretty good sweet spot for me. It's very home and family centric and whatever home and family looks like for people. I think that calling people toward that in writing is something that I often think about. So that's probably a sweet spot.
[00:07:27] Speaker A: Yeah. And I would. I mean, yes. I'm just nodding along. I'm like, yes. That's what I get from reading your words. So you have let there be havens.
[00:07:35] Speaker B: I would.
[00:07:36] Speaker A: Do you call this a coffee table book? I was, like, referring to this as a coffee table book just because of the photos.
[00:07:45] Speaker B: You know, when we were. When my agent was pitching it to publishers, we were trying to decide if we should call it that, because I think, like, one of the things I love to do is sort of try to stretch into new spaces, and it was a little bit hard to describe. Like, is it, you know, it's like, I wanted it to not be too big and too heavy so that you could sort of stick it in a bag and, you know, whatever, take it to the grocery store. But also it could feel, like, beautiful and that you would be happy to leave it out and feel, you know, maybe inspired by it that way. So I think it's kind of like the size of a cookbook and not too heavy, so that.
[00:08:25] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:08:25] Speaker B: And there it is. You have the shiny cover version. So beautiful.
Oh, thank you.
[00:08:31] Speaker A: Well, yeah. And I would say yes. The only reason I said coffee table, and I know for the people listening, they're like, it's not fair. We can't see it, but there are just some gorgeous, gorgeous photos in here. But reading through it, I feel like you really did. You help readers both find what they need and what they need to hear, and then you offer practical ways for them to share it with other people.
So I would say, what is the hope that you. What do you hope people find in these pages as they're reading?
[00:09:00] Speaker B: I. So, you know, after doing other book projects, I mean, there's a high cost, right, to make a book. It's a huge privilege. I absolutely love it. But I recognized going into it that, like, if I was gonna do another book, I wanted it to really feel like an offering, and I wanted the message to match which with the book experience.
And so I thought, if I'm going to be. If the message is how to create havens, I wanted people to experience a haven just as a reader, just in the pages. And so I hope that that how it feels. That it feels like the haven itself.
[00:09:39] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, and you even shared in the introduction that one of your things, even in writing, is you realize that you wanted to share your story in a way that helps you care for others. How does that. How does sharing your story help you to better care for others, including the people that are reading it?
[00:09:57] Speaker B: I think. I think sharing stories feels like really. They feel like really great side doors into, like, I think this will circle back. To answer your question, when Ryan and I lived overseas, when he was in the military, I was directing a show in the theater, and it was. Do you know the Boxcar children? Oh, yes. Do you know that story? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, of course, we cast kids as these. As the characters and the actors. And meanwhile, like, most of their. Their dads and some of their moms were gone because they were, you know, they were deployed. It was Operation Iraqi Freedom. And so we had a bunch of kids who were in the show and then who were coming to the theater to watch it, who, you know, were with half without a family. And so I. What I saw happening because of the story of the Boxcar children where they don't, you know, they don't have their parents, they have to lean into each other. They have to take care of each other, be resourceful. And all of this is how healing it was for the kids.
And, you know, there were a lot of opening.
Opening up of emotion that had sort of been bottled or, I'm afraid, and. But, like, the story was helping them kind of express how they felt. And so I think that that's what stories can do. It's like you don't even have to totally identify with, you know, the actual plot line or, like, so in the stories that I write, you know, maybe you haven't been a part of the military and lived overseas, but, you know, there's. There might be something in that story that, like, resonates with something that you've experienced or the depths of something that you've felt. And so I think it just opens. Opens the door to connection.
[00:11:46] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I love the way that. I don't know. I don't know what the literary term is for it, but as opposed to this being, like, one big, long, massive continuing story, it's a bunch of small stories. And I actually really appreciate that because I can find myself better in, you know, a story about a bike or a story about, like, groceries, because that's something that I experience all the time. Sometimes I have a hard time relating to these big, magnificent experiences that I don't have, you know, but I'm like, I've lost a friend of. Maybe not in the exact same way as you, but I have experienced that. And I am very familiar with the garage. And so, like, when you talk about what happened, like, I know what that means, you know?
So, yeah, I think you did that well.
[00:12:37] Speaker B: Thanks, Kristen. I was actually thinking, you know, mosaic is actually a word that I use to describe the way I was writing it. And obviously, this is. This is your church.
But I do think, and I've especially found that for a lot of my peers and women, like, this is the type of book that they really.
Sorry, not this specific, but, like, this style where it's, like, vignettes and things woven together. You can kind of open to any page. You can find these familiar things. I think it's hopefully, like, pretty inviting and pretty, like, it can kind of just fit into your life instead of a big commitment of now, I'm going to sit down and read, you know, page one to 200.
[00:13:20] Speaker A: Right, right. And because they're quick, it feels like, oh, I'm a. I actually did read this. I have actually read the whole thing because I have it. And so I was able to read, like, one little story or another little story and slowly make my way through with having. Without having to remember a character or a timeline or what was the detail that happened at the beginning that now I have to remember to make this make sense like, that none of that was needed, you know?
[00:13:46] Speaker B: Oh, good. Good. That makes me very happy.
[00:13:51] Speaker A: Well, Liz, one of the things that I'm so enamored by in your words and you kind of touched on this is your ability to dream and to kind of, like, you know, be ethereal and kind of bring in this, like, really beautiful, lovely way of thinking. But I think for a lot of people, myself included, the world moves so fast that taking the time to then pause doesn't feel like a reality. How can people listening teach themselves this skill of, like, slowing down and learning to dream again?
[00:14:22] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's probably, like, a shift in environment that is extremely helpful for me when I think about getting into that kind of dream state or just, like, you kind of wake up your soul a little bit, which is sort of how I see dreaming. Right. Like, you kind of have the freedom them to think more openly.
Now, our kids are older a little bit, but this has been harder in the past to find these little pockets. But I found them in just really brief interludes. And maybe that's the thing that is helpful, maybe to listeners, but just literally laying down outside and looking up at the sky, going to a beautiful place and it. Whatever is, like, sort of inspiring and soul filling to you. I mean, I've always loved the story, anthropology, and that is a dream place for me. I have to be there by myself. Like, a lot of it's about being no children, no friends, because then it's just, you know, that's what the conversation is. But, like, I think if you're trying to sort of dream and kind of wake up that it's very, like, for me, it almost always has to be alone so that my mind can wander or, like, I can hear what God is putting on my heart or I can touch. You know, I'm a very, like, tactile person, which is probably why I, like, you know, the woods or anthropology or water, you know, things like that. But just, like, walking through a beautiful place, and then I think that there's some. And you'll relate to this, because I think you've been on a motorcycle. Oh, yeah. A time or two.
But I think sometimes, like, you can. It helps to take your own breath away a little bit. So, I mean, we, you know, we had a dirt bike for a while.
I'm not a big fan of motorcycles anymore after a fall off. But, you know, I think, like, just going fast in the open air, that is another way for me that feels like it takes me to a place where I'm like, you know, you just kind of, like, get out above and above your life, you know, and your mind open. So.
Dream lessons?
[00:16:44] Speaker A: Yeah, no, it's good because at first you said shifted environment, and I was thinking biggest, larger scale. And I'm like, because you talk about, you know, your. Your new home and in the book as well, I was like, well, we are not going to be doing that. But in these small ways, like, even if we were to, you know, if I was to pick up my laptop and go work in a different place, in a different coffee shop and a different vibe for the day, that's still going to shake up my environment enough that my brain has to then, like, reorient, right?
[00:17:13] Speaker B: Yes, yes.
[00:17:15] Speaker A: I think about things differently.
[00:17:17] Speaker B: Yes. I think that's why a lot of times, like, if you let yourself, like, rolling down your windows in your car while you drive and, like, just singing or praying or, like, I think that's a very easy way. Again, it helps to be alone. So this is, like, after you take your kids to school.
I mean, it's good to dream together, too. I don't mean to shut out other people from, you know, the dream, but you. Yeah, yeah.
[00:17:40] Speaker A: And I think it's okay. I think we need to give people permission, too, that, like, you're allowed to prioritize time for just yourself. You're allowed to prioritize time when you are alone, especially the moms or the working parents, because there is a guilt that comes of, like, someone always needs me, and so if I'm taking the time away, I'm taking it away from somebody else. But really, I know. I find I'm a much better wife and mom when sometimes I get to just be Kristen.
[00:18:06] Speaker B: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. What do you do to dream?
[00:18:11] Speaker A: To dream?
[00:18:12] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh.
[00:18:13] Speaker A: I don't. I don't know. This is actually something that I'm struggling with. Liz, to be honest with you.
I am in a. I need to physically move my body. I'm in a bit of a rage cycle, if I'm being honest. If I can say that.
[00:18:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:28] Speaker A: So I am, like, I need to pound some pavement. I need to ride my bike. I need to listen to, like, rage music just to kind of get it all out.
And that's kind of the season that I'm in right now where I don't want to, like, recycle these feelings or these things. So I know I have to get them out of my mind in order to have the space to then, like, okay, what's actually real in this situation? Like, what does God want me to see here outside of my initial reactions, you know?
[00:18:59] Speaker B: Yeah, that's good to hear. I mean, and I think, again, like, that's sort of the, like, it's that adrenaline. I love to, like, I need to sprint sometimes. Like, just physically.
[00:19:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:11] Speaker B: So I totally understand what you're saying. It's like, it's not always about slowing down and wandering. It might be, like, the exact opposite. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:19:19] Speaker A: And it's good for people to figure out what they need in different seasons, you know?
[00:19:24] Speaker B: Right.
[00:19:25] Speaker A: Well, Liz, as somebody, I've spent time with you, and so I can confidently say that one of my favorite things about you is the way that you can hold this tension of, like, seeing the beauty, but also still living in a very real reality world where it feels like you peer through the lens of optimism while still squaring life, like, right painfully in the face.
How do you hold that tension? How do you hold the balance without either slipping into, like, desperation or blind optimism on the other side?
[00:19:57] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, I think that I'm, like, I've experimented with both. Yeah.
I do feel more naturally wired as an optimist, a romantic.
I've always, as a kid, I was that way. I was always just doing cartwheels and running into walls.
But I think that I had some really good models of this. Like, how to be.
How to be real. Because blind optimism isn't honest. Right. I mean, it can be a helpful place to go to, like, when you just need, like, a head mind break. Yeah. Right. Like, that's why we sort of need. Sometimes these distractions are just, like, total removals, but because it's not. It's not. Like, even so, because it's not honest, it's not a sustainable place to stay anyway.
And I think that's a little bit, like, if you're in that camp, you're kind of disassociating. Right. And so. But the how to veer away from the, you know, just the desperation and sort of the places that are honestly pretty easy to get to right now, like, just with, you know, all the stuff that's going on and. Yeah. And just culturally and stuff. And so I think I, I have had to really get careful about what comes in, just what I'm looking at, reading, seeing, because it was taking me as an optimist. I felt myself going to, I was like, man, I'm not a fearful person. Why am I afraid right now? So it was, and I recognized where it was coming from, and so I just had to start closing those places down.
And I think that, and that has, it's brought me back to, like, a healthier state. And so, yeah, I just, I do think that, like, holding the tension, I guess, between those is just, like, it's where I want to be. Yeah. You know, and again, having people who model, that has been really helpful in my life.
[00:22:03] Speaker A: Well, I heard you an underlying two idea of, like, self awareness and you knowing for yourself, hey, I'm not in my right frame of mind. Like, I'm fearful and why I'm thinking these things that are not who I want to be or who I feel like I am. And we have to have the self awareness to recognize that and then be able to get curious about it and then ask ourselves the questions of, like, like you said, why. Why am I afraid of everything right now?
[00:22:31] Speaker B: Yeah, that's right.
[00:22:33] Speaker A: It's so tricky. What, what do you, blind optimism, I think, is something that I grew up with. I think I could be prone to blind optimism. I can also be prone to bitterness.
I'm prone to the extremes.
And I also try to live in the tension of, you know, two things can be true at once and holding the middle ground. But is there something that keeps you rooted? Is there something that kind of helps keep you in that middle without just living in, running away from life's problems? I guess.
[00:23:09] Speaker B: Yeah. People. People do. Okay.
I would say I have a few close friends in Ryan. Who are those people for me. So Ryan keeps me from running away from things. He knows my tendencies. I understand blind optimism, and I understand I don't want to deal with it. So I'm just going to kick it to the curb really fast.
So. But he is a person who, not that we wallow in things, but he will, like, you know, he will kind of stay there. And I have some good friends who help me stay there, too. And so I really do think it's people. It's good voices. I mean, it's, you know, reading. Reading good things and listening to good things, too, and being choiceful about that. Like, it's not helpful to go into like, endless conversations with people who will just bring out your bitterness, right?
[00:24:01] Speaker A: Or who will just.
[00:24:04] Speaker B: You know, or it's. Everything's too superficial that it's not. There's nothing restorative in that either.
[00:24:10] Speaker A: So it's all just avoidance, right?
[00:24:12] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:24:15] Speaker A: Okay, guys, real quick, before we get into the practicals of Liz's book, I want to take a pause to share something with you. It's a review that sums up the heart of the podcast so well, and it is from grace for all 24 this person writes. Personally, I think regardless of finding mosaic church in Charlotte and hearing Kristen preach there, I would have found my way to the straightforward, Christ affirming interviews that this podcast offers. It is full of honest, insightful questions that lead back to how we can be more like Jesus and love others better. There is such a wide variety of guests that speak to such important and diverse topics. Anyone truly can take something away from any episode. The beauty of a show like this also is that you can pick it up at any point, regardless of the episode. This offers an experience where you genuinely do not need any extra context to learn something or gain perspective. I highly recommend giving becoming church a listen, and I just want to thank grace for all 24 for such a kind, kind review that really is the goal of becoming church is that we would not be an echo chamber where we're bringing you one topic or one voice, but we want to introduce you to a lot of different people to expand your perspective and to help you learn from the lived experiences of people whose lives may be nothing like yours. If you don't relate deeply in one particular episode, maybe share it with somebody who came to mind when I you were listening. Maybe that is the exact person who will resonate deeply with that guest. You can share on social media and always tag meristanmuchleryoung because you never know who is going to be seen by that particular conversation. Every time you share or leave a review, it helps other people find God in their lives through this show.
Well, let's get into a couple practicals from let there be havens. You defined havens as people who shelter us, places that hold us, and experiences that lift us up. And I think that maybe that removes pressure from people who don't feel like they were given the gift of hospitality. I think that's an easy thing for people to run away from, right? And be like, well, I am not a hostess and so therefore I can't be hospitable, speak to those people.
[00:26:38] Speaker B: So, you know, I used to work for a church, and we created this big rural camping event for women and that. So, you know, I don't know how many we had. That takes so many volunteers when you're hosting that many women outside, outside of their comfort zones, and.
But we had all sorts of women personalities who were running this and that. That was, like, a really big testament to me. Like, if I had asked, let's say there were 30, how many of you believe you have the gift of hospitality? Maybe seven would have said, I do. But all of us were taking care of people, so we were all just doing it in different ways. Like, some of us were, you know, chopping wood and delivering it with, you know, delight to the campsites. And some people were, like, pulling cars out of the mud when they got stuck. And some people were just, like, one on one, like, in the, you know, in the deepest prayer conversation with somebody else. And so I think that I was honestly, like, hesitant about using the word hospitality even in the subtitle.
[00:27:50] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:27:50] Speaker B: Because I think it's such a low. Like, it just comes with a lot of baggage. You know, it's either Martha Stewart or whatever person on Instagram. You know, it's like, it's that or it's just, you know, it's a hotel or it's a restaurant.
And so I felt really that it was really important to put gentle in front of it because I think, you know, it's this idea of hospitality with what you have, and it's with who you are, too. So you might have never thought, I have the gift of hospitality, but can you take care of a person? I'm absolutely positive you can. Yeah, absolutely. You know how you will do it differently than I do it, and that's fantastic because we need different types of people taking care of us in different ways.
[00:28:36] Speaker A: Right?
[00:28:37] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:28:38] Speaker A: Basically, people need to redefine the way they define, I guess, hospitality, redefine the way they look at. What does this mean?
[00:28:45] Speaker B: Yeah, I think so. Because otherwise, we just. We don't try doing it, you know, or we feel like, well, we wouldn't be good enough. So then why.
Why invite someone over? Why be kind to a stranger on the street? Because I'm really not that type of person. So you shut yourself out of the opportunities of loving other people and being loved yourself, right.
[00:29:08] Speaker A: When you give the cutest little lists of practicals where, as I was reading through this, I was like, well, that seems like common sense. However, I have literally never thought to do this.
[00:29:22] Speaker B: I love how honest you are.
[00:29:24] Speaker A: Super, super simple. Like, so simple. I'm like, oh, these are actually different ways that we can show hospitality. And not only do you have lists, but there were a couple places where you've got just, like, blank lines where people can go in and write their own ideas or write their own dreams. And I thought, man, that is brilliant, because I, again, was reading this going, good idea, good idea, good idea. I would have never stopped to ask myself the question, how do I want to show hospitality? How do I think I'm good at it? What do I want my home to feel like and think like and smell like? And I would have never stopped to answer those questions. So thank you for putting the homework in there.
[00:30:06] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. I know I wanted to send pens with every book because, I mean, I'm a big, like, you know, mess up pages and dog ear and all of that. But I hope that, you know, I didn't. I wanted it to be an interactive, you know, very open space for people. So I'm glad you felt that.
[00:30:24] Speaker A: Yeah, it was a happy surprise. I just didn't expect it. And I saw the first one, and I was like, is this a design? Is this a decor? Like. No, this is a question I'm supposed to write in here.
[00:30:34] Speaker B: This is for you, Kristen.
[00:30:36] Speaker A: Great.
So you do have these two pieces. Like, the book has these elements of sharing stories, but it's also loaded up with practicals, not only, like, ideas and things to do. There's recipes in here, really, just. Just simple, easy to carry out things. So, Liz, I want to know for you which is easier if it's the dreaming of, like, what could be or the actual carrying out of the thing, which one comes more naturally to you?
[00:31:07] Speaker B: Oh, which one? So I hate to say I love both, but I actually really do love both. And I have to.
[00:31:14] Speaker A: It's a parent that you do, so that's.
[00:31:19] Speaker B: But I toggle between them. And what I've recognized is that if I do so much of the carrying out, like, I just hit the hardest wall. Right. Like, I, you know, I can't always be. And I've done this before, like, I've worked myself into so much production mentality that, like, all. Like, all of that open space is just. Is just gone. Yeah. And so. But I've also been, you know, I think it's really important to not just hold the. Hold the dreams or the ideas inside, but to act. Act through with them to. Even if it's. Even if it's not in a way that's going to public consumption. You know what I mean, Orlando? But, yeah, so I think the. I think that carrying out is actually really important. I get really antsy if I don't carry out.
Like, I don't. I don't like to be, like, sort of quiet and dreamy for too long. That's when I have to go, like, start doing wind sprints or, you know, mowing the grass. It's things like that. So I don't know. Does that answer your question? Okay.
I think, too, like, you know, I have my. My mom is an artist slash community activist, and my dad is an engineer, but a very, like, you know, the inventor entrepreneur sort. And so I did have, like, both of them to look toward and, like, how they, like, they didn't just talk about things. They were big doers.
But they also didn't shut down, like, my, you know, my ideas. I mean, I remember, like, building a flying machine in our front yard, and my dad helped me, and I. And I remember thinking back as it, like, I never left the ground, as you might imagine, but I think I didn't even realize that, like, I hadn't carried it out to what it was supposed to be. I think the carrying out was just, like, sitting there in a box with all these parts and pieces around me and feeling like, oh, we did it, even though we didn't leave the ground.
[00:33:25] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:33:25] Speaker B: So, you know, carrying out might look. You know, it might also change as you go, like, what that looks like. Yeah.
[00:33:31] Speaker A: Well, I'm so excited. I'm so lucky. I get to watch your kids kind of grow up. You know, you've talked about you watching your parents and now seeing the kind of parents that you and Ryan are and getting to watch your kids watch you. Like, I can't wait to hear the stories that they're going to say and have of looking back of, like, I remember learning this from my mom or my dad and just the special people they already are. Like, I can't wait to see who they are as adults, you know, when they've got more agency and can make change and do more things. I just think we need more parents that let the kids be kids and believe in them and not try to restrict them with the reality of life that's going to hit them eventually anyway. Like, let's. Yeah, protect that a little bit, you know?
[00:34:17] Speaker B: Yes, I love that.
[00:34:18] Speaker A: Yes, I agree with your kids. And we talked about this a little bit earlier, but how do you. We talked about, you know, creating space, and you need. It's good for you to create your own space, even as a mom, but within your home let's talk about your home environment for a second. Within your home. How do you create a haven when there are other people living there with all of their stuff?
[00:34:43] Speaker B: You know, we have visitors. Yes.
[00:34:45] Speaker A: I mean, just in the day to day. If you were to come over today, and I would be thrilled to have you come over. But, like, our school, our last day of. Of school stuff is still piled up in the kitchen. There is still, like, a pile in the laundry room downstairs of things that should have been taken up so much longer ago. But I'm trying to also teach my kids responsibility, so I'm like, this is on you. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:35:09] Speaker B: Oh, I know it doesn't feel like.
[00:35:11] Speaker A: A haven, but it just also. I can't let that keep me from having people over.
[00:35:16] Speaker B: That's right. Oh, my goodness. That's so right. Well, I mean, this has been.
It is a tricky space, I think, like, I.
And, oh, my goodness, by, there's no. We do not do any of this, you know, perfectly. I mean, we work at it because I care about it.
[00:35:32] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:35:33] Speaker B: But I think, like, so we don't have, like, our. The guests who come in and out, or it's either sort of, like, for a day or for a few nights. It's mostly women at this point, because that's who I'm working with. That's who.
Like, it just. It works with our family and the dynamics.
I mean, other than, like, friends and Ryan's friends, like, come, like. But aside from that stuff.
So I think that, like, what I remember a turning point, having a third child and how. Because, like, I realized, like, oh, I can't control this. Like, I wanted our.
I wanted our house to be a certain way. I wanted to.
I just. I wanted it to be sort of this.
We had a. We have a college nearby and, like, a design school. And so some of these students were coming over, and I'm like, I wanted to offer them everything that I could.
They were homesick, you know, all of this stuff, and. But really, they, like, they all. They just had to hold my baby.
We had to do carry out. We.
I mean, people have helped me fold my laundry. Like, it's just I had to realize that I could not control everything and that people were also happy to be around that and contribute to it, you know, like, in real time. And so now I also still care about, like, a tidy house and trying to make the place, like, really comfortable and clean. We try. When we do have guests over, like, if they're staying overnight, like, right now, we have a couple here from California. They're still asleep, I think.
[00:37:16] Speaker A: But.
[00:37:18] Speaker B: But I. But, you know, we. I try to, like, set up their space with the things that they will need so that they're still, like, they get a little independence. Our family gets some independence. Yeah. So, like, I mean, we've put coffee makers on the floor in the basement and, like, a jug of water next to it, you know, just, like at our old house, because we didn't have, like, a designated guest room or anything.
[00:37:40] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:40] Speaker B: And so. But trying to sort of create the opportunity also for, like, you can cut. You can also do things on your own, and then, like, we'll see you for late breakfast, you know, that sort of thing.
[00:37:52] Speaker A: Yeah. And the little details. I think that's always the thing that gets me. Even having a coffee, like a keurig or a one cup in the room just makes, I think, those little tiny things. I think it makes such a difference when it comes to creating an environment in your home for someone else. You know, I'm a morning person, but I don't want to talk to people until I've had a cup of coffee. And so, yeah, yeah. Then I have to, like, get it together for these people that are not my family to be like, hello.
[00:38:23] Speaker B: Hi.
[00:38:23] Speaker A: I want to get this coffee, and I actually want to leave. I'll, like, be back in, like, 15 minutes, but I just need to. Give me a second.
[00:38:29] Speaker B: Right, and don't you think that most of your guests would feel the same way?
[00:38:33] Speaker A: Right, right.
[00:38:34] Speaker B: Yeah. And so I think it's, like, get, like, not over hosting people. I think preparation is very helpful. But then, like, not over hosting and just, like, building this, like, sort of pressure cooker of, you know, we can't. We can't actually pull this off. And so, yes, there will be, you know, a little way to make coffee in your room, if possible.
[00:38:55] Speaker A: Yeah, well, it really isn't all that hard. Like, in our bathroom, we don't have a guest room, per se, but even in our guesthouse bathroom, which is the one that most people use, we have people sleepover every now and then. But I try. I just have a drawer, and it doesn't look cute, and it doesn't look fancy, but there's a drawer that has extra toothbrushes, hairspray, extra toothpaste, floss. I'm like, poo pourri. I'm like, what are things that people might need but be embarrassed to ask or not to wake me up if.
[00:39:25] Speaker B: They'Re still, you know, oh, my gosh.
[00:39:30] Speaker A: Dumped in a drawer, but it's there.
[00:39:32] Speaker B: And it's there. It is there. And I think that. I love that you brought that drawer up, because I think, like, I mean, it's. I know it's very simple, but what it does is it can, like, keep someone from embarrassment. Right? Like, I'm embarrassed because I didn't bring a toothbrush or, like, the bathroom smells and you put pooper in the drawer. Like, God bless you for that. Like, I think this stuff is, like, so important for making. Making people feel, like, really at home in your spot, wherever you are.
[00:40:01] Speaker A: Yeah. Just giving them a little bit of, like, hey, I see you. I'm troubleshooting for you.
[00:40:07] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:40:07] Speaker A: The tiny little details.
[00:40:09] Speaker B: Yes. Oh, I love that. I'm troubleshooting for you. That's really good.
Shoot. I can't add that to the book.
[00:40:16] Speaker A: It's too late.
Use it in your upcoming interview.
[00:40:19] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:40:19] Speaker A: Okay, Liz, for the people, you touched on this a little bit earlier, but for the people who are listening, who feel like they're. They're ones that are always creating. They're the ones that are always providing the haven. How can they find shelter or a haven for themselves when it maybe seems elusive based on their season of life or whatever else it is?
[00:40:39] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, I feel you.
I think that, like, when I was talking about, you know, going into, like, when I'm in heavy production mode or, you know, running. Running things and not receiving.
[00:40:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:40:56] Speaker B: It is so helpful to me to go. Go to something or experience something that I had nothing to do with.
And so, like, I was.
I mean, this. This seems like a really silly example, but, like, even going to a movie theater and going to, you know, like, I was. I had no part in that. I'm just, like, walking in and buying a ticket.
My friend and I did this when we were both, like, super exhausted and, like, it was the old kind of movie theater that still, like, serves a glass of wine. And so we, like, got a glass of wine and we sat down and just cried. It was just. Everything was so beautiful and done for us. Like, we didn't do anything.
And so I think, like, you know, I had it when I. When I stopped working on staff at our church. Like, I had someone else had stopped ahead of me, and they were like, I think it would be really good for you to just take a break from this community and just go. Go into another one. Just observe. Don't get involved. Don't, you know, but just, like, just soak in that. And that was incredible advice, because I think when you're, you know, when you're creating things, building things, producing things.
It's. You also are, like, it's hard to get out of that mindset if you are involved in it.
[00:42:17] Speaker A: Right, right.
[00:42:18] Speaker B: And so you, like, go to a conference that you have nothing to do with and don't volunteer to be backstage, you know, like, go to somebody else's party, somebody else's house. And that's good. I mean, of course, it's great to ask people to help fill you, you know, like, to ask for specific things that you need. But I really do. Like, I think if you just, you just want to step into environments that, I mean, go to a magic show, go to a concert where someone is just like, it's. You're doing nothing. You're just receiving.
[00:42:47] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. That's so good. I know. Being a church staffer, too, like, that's one of those things where I can tell. And again, this goes back to, like, self awareness and needing to spend the time to learn the way you think. But for me, when I'm really.
I probably shouldn't admit this on my own church podcast, here it is.
Church. It is very easy for church for Sunday morning for me to just be a task. I am highly involved in our worship and production and series and the message and service, even when I'm not the one preaching. Like, I've been involved in every detail of that Sunday morning service leading up to that week. And then sitting there on Sunday morning, I'm like, there's a typo. This is not loud enough. This person is this, and this light is going funny, and I'm. My brain is constantly going to the point where, like, I can't turn it off sometimes, and it just kind of happens. And so, yeah, I need to find, not that I'm taking off Sunday mornings to do this, but I need to find, like, worship nights that happen at a different day or. I actually really love going to conferences, and I think that's why. I think you hit on it, Liz, because I get to just go and sing and I don't have to do it. I can get lost. I can actually, like, get lost in it and hear from God and just have the experience without worrying if they went over time. Like, it's not obvious.
[00:44:15] Speaker B: That's right. To be a participant or recipient. Totally.
[00:44:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:44:19] Speaker B: Yeah. It's important to be a guest.
[00:44:22] Speaker A: Yeah. I love that. A magic show, too. Now you said. I'm like, oh, I want to go see a magic show.
[00:44:28] Speaker B: I love magic.
[00:44:29] Speaker A: Me, too.
Well, last question for you, because the podcast is called becoming church. How can the people that are listening take this idea of gentle hospitality to use it to become the church to people around them?
[00:44:48] Speaker B: I mean, I think that.
I think when you're taking care of people, you're on holy ground. I really do.
I think it's what Jesus did. It's what Jesus led us to do. And so I really believe that we're all poised and wired as, you know, pastors and shepherds and to bring home to other people. And so I think that, I mean, of course, there's, like, a lot of conversation around, like, you know, the church is not the walls that, you know.
[00:45:20] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:45:21] Speaker B: It's not the buildings and all of that, but, like, really, it's not.
And we. And, like, we get to do that. Like, we get to be that.
And so, yeah, I think just, again, like, my hope, and you've sort of said it just, like, in the simplest of ways, but, like, it's not like a new commitment to a new ministry. Right. It's like, all it is is just in the way you live. Just doing that from a posture of, like, loving and being kind and taking care of people. Like, sort of it. Yeah.
And hopefully the book helps. I mean, the gospels are better.
Hopefully the book, you know, gives ideas.
Please. Yeah. Please choose one over the other.
But, yeah, yeah, I just.
[00:46:18] Speaker A: I.
[00:46:18] Speaker B: It's.
[00:46:19] Speaker A: I sense from you, especially the way you live, the way you write, the way this. This whole book is presented, it's just like bringing a little glimpse of heaven down to earth and trying to create heaven for the people around us in a world that can be very volatile and very evil and negative and scary sometimes. And so, yeah, just reminding people, like, there is hope, there is more, there is a future, there is truth and light and love and goodness and all of these things still. And we, like you just said, I love that you said, we get to. We get to bring that into whatever little corner of the world we're living in.
[00:46:55] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:46:56] Speaker A: So lovely.
Well, thank you. Thank you. We're gonna link this up in the show notes.
Lots of other things down there, too, but, Liz, thank you so much for being here. This was so fun.
[00:47:07] Speaker B: It was so good. I love getting well, I've always loved getting to talk to you, but this was nice. I'm like, oh, we talked in front of other people, but I also just felt like we just talked, just talk to ourselves. So. Yeah. Thanks, Kristen.
[00:47:25] Speaker A: We get to. We get to. We get to bring heaven to earth. We get to bring the light of Jesus into the dark corners of the world. And so that's my prayer for you today, that you would find places where you can show up, even with the most seemingly insignificant details, to help help someone experience the love of Jesus today. Thanks for listening. And until next time, keep becoming the church to the people around.
