Naeem Fazal: Tomorrow Needs You

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:10] Speaker B: Welcome to Becoming Church, the podcast where we discuss how the message and movement of Jesus is not just about becoming Christians, but about becoming the church. I'm your host, Kristin Mockler Young, and my guest today is one of my favorite people in the entire world. It is my pastor, Naeem Fazel. Naim has a new book coming out next week called Tomorrow Needs you. You can pre order it right now on Amazon or find it out in the wild already if you're lucky. We've already seen it in some local bookstores and even in libraries where it has already been requested. This is an episode full of hope, encouragement, and the reminder that God really is in every detail of our lives. So as you listen, think about who you can send this episode to. Here is my pastor and friend, Naeen Fazel. Naeen Fazel, welcome back to Becoming Church. [00:01:05] Speaker A: Thank you so much. It's good to be back. You've been busy. [00:01:09] Speaker B: Have you back? [00:01:10] Speaker A: Yes, I am. I am, too. I am, too. Thank you for squeezing me in here because like I said, you busy. [00:01:16] Speaker B: I am. Listen, there's always going to be room for you on this podcast. Once your face is part of the podcast logo, then, you know, I think that means we'll always make room for you. [00:01:25] Speaker A: There's been a rumor that that was the case, but. Yes, but no longer. That's awesome. [00:01:30] Speaker B: No longer. [00:01:31] Speaker A: So, so proud of what's happened. Like, how long has it been now? A couple of years now, right? [00:01:36] Speaker B: Couple years, yeah. Yeah. Two or three. I don't know. I really should figure that out. [00:01:40] Speaker A: You should figure it out. And also the amount of people that you've had, some amazing guests. So I just am, you know, honored that I get to be a part of this thing. So thanks for, you know, taking the money and letting me on here. [00:01:55] Speaker B: Yes, well, excited to have you in the lineup for sure. But listen, I know that we've had some new listeners from the last time that you were on the show, so give people a little bit of background info on who you are because your story is a little bit unique. [00:02:11] Speaker A: Yes. So I will first of all clear up the fact that there was no money involved in this podcast. I think there's any money to get on this podcast, number one. Number two. Yes. So we've been friends for, like, I don't know, 20 plus years. But as you. As. As you know, and they might not know, I'm actually Pakistani. So I am Pakistani. That means I got Pakistani parents, two brothers, two sisters, you know, big family. But we lived in Kuwait, which is in The Arab world. So I grew up Muslim, came here to the states in 1992 after the Gulf War, found myself in a relationship with Jesus, as in I had this supernatural experience with Jesus. And then that led me to really feel called to ministry and church work and all that. And so fast forward, we're like 19 years into a church plant called Mosaic, which you're part of as well. And yeah, we're in Charlotte, North Carolina, so. So yeah, it's been quite the, quite the adventure. So that's me. [00:03:12] Speaker B: And so people can hear more or learn more about your story of your call to ministry in your first book, Ex Muslim. [00:03:19] Speaker A: Yes. [00:03:20] Speaker B: But you know what I just realized? Here's what I just realized, hearing your story for like the 400th time. You and I are now both pastoring a church. Neither of us set out to be pastors. [00:03:34] Speaker A: So true. So true. [00:03:37] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm like, neither one of us plan to be in ministry, but here we are kind of like co leading this whole thing now. It's crazy. God is crazy. He writes some wild stories. [00:03:47] Speaker A: It is, it is. Yeah. The first book, agree, chronicles a lot of my background. You know, my family growing up, then my years in the college, in college, meeting Ashley, our kids, all of that. But this new book, this is really, you know, not really my story. It's actually other people's stories too. And it's really stories about post traumatic growth, people coming out of trauma and finding hope and how they're, how they did it. So, yeah, I'm excited about it. [00:04:20] Speaker B: I am so excited about it. And as. As good as your first book was, this one Tomorrow needs you. I've got it right here, truly. And I keep telling you this, I think that this is going to impact such a broader audience and so many people. But before we dive into it, like into the pages, the idea for this actually came to you a couple years ago. You did a TED Talk, right, about the idea that beauty is the antidote to fear. [00:04:47] Speaker A: Yes, I did, I did. So, yeah. So if you want me to speak into that, I think I'm not quite sure if I knew I was going to write a book about it, honestly. [00:04:58] Speaker B: Okay. [00:04:58] Speaker A: So, yeah, so with Ted, you know, when I did the talk, I mean, first of all, when they asked me to audition, I thought it was like a spam email kind of thing. You know, I didn't really think they would ask me to audition. I thought you had to be like, you know, you had to have done, have done something. And also I was in church world, so I Was like, you know, anyway. So, yeah, it turned out to be a real thing, true thing. And then I came up with an idea and that was that I took this, took this one, I guess, subject of fear, which we all deal with. But fears played a huge part in my life and started thinking about what really is my relationship to fear. And what I found out was that a lot of people, especially in the spiritual world, religious world, and a lot of people just say, hey, you know what? Don't fear, have faith. You know, so faith has always been the solution to fear. And what I realized is that it's really not in my life. And then started doing some research, found out that, yeah, it's true that people who overcome anxiety, overcome odds, overcome pain, grief, disappointment, overcome, you know, uncertainty in their life, they actually, yes, they dig deep, they lock in, they find courage. But the stories that I found that were really profound were that people in fact did not use faith because faith fails us. Because faith really is the opposite of fear. It's not the solution. So what the solution really was was beauty. That people would put something beautiful, something that they love before them that was worth wrestling through all the fears to make that happen. One sense. So that was the story. I mean, that's the talk for ted. And then after that, adores kind of opened up in terms of me coaching TEDx speakers and things like that. And then years later, I was thinking about a book and I don't know if you know this, Kristen, but I've got manuscripts of other books or not manuscripts, I would say book proposals. Yeah, book proposals of other books lying around. So there was a book called Irrational and then there was a book called Imagine Meeting him and there's some other books out there. And then, yeah, it's kind of a cool thing and very much a God thing that, that TED talk led to this book because my publisher, not my publisher, my, let's see, my agent, my agency, my. Yeah. Have a whole agency people. Whole agency. No, not really, no. They were like, so what are your ideas? And I gave him a few. And then the guy was like, hey, you know, I heard your TED Talk and you should write a book about that. So that was the beginning of me going, you want me to write a whole book about this thing? [00:08:01] Speaker B: And I'm like, it was a seven minute talk. How do I make a whole book out of it? [00:08:04] Speaker A: Right? I was like, huh? Okay. [00:08:08] Speaker B: So, yeah, Well, I love that as a pastor, first of all, that you got to even speak at TEDx, because they're not like A Christian organization, so already that's amazing. But I also love hearing you talk about that faith is not the antidote to fear, because I think that really brings freedom to a lot of people. Because a lot of Christians struggle with the idea of, well, if faith and fear cannot coexist, then that's where we get into the spiritual platitudes. Right. Of like, well, I guess your faith isn't strong enough if you're still afraid and you can't have faith and be afraid at the same time, which you absolutely, totally can. I think all of us experience that, you know. [00:08:47] Speaker A: Yeah. I think sometimes, if you think about it, faith really is walking in fear. [00:08:53] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah. Okay. [00:08:54] Speaker A: So what that means is, is like, so, like faith, if faith is not a noun, it's a verb. So that means it's an action. It means you're doing something. So it's like. It's like dancing, right? So, like, if faith. If you took the word of faith and put dancing on there, and you know, and we know that people dance, and some people dance in certainty because they know what they're doing. And some people dance in absurdity, and some people should not be dancing ever at all. But some people dance with insecurity. People dance, though the act of dancing involves all kinds of other emotions that are going on in your head. I think fear is just one of the emotions as you dance, as you move in faith. So moving in faith requires that you're always wrestling with the tension of, I'm scared, I'm not scared, I'm anxious. What's going to happen? You're always wrestling. So there is no, oh, I have left faith and have gone into fear, or I have left fear and now I'm moving in faith. Not necessarily true, moving without fear, doing something, moving into uncertainty, moving into and planning or creating something, wrestling with your worries, wrestling with your anxiety, wrestling with all the things, your doubts. That process is called faith. So that's why I believe that it's not. The. The fear and faith are not two opposite ends. They're not at all. [00:10:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:29] Speaker A: Because moving, if you did have any doubts and you did something, I could not say, we could not say, oh, you did this in faith. No, you didn't. [00:10:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:40] Speaker A: You did this with total certainty. [00:10:42] Speaker B: Right, Right. Which doesn't require faith. [00:10:45] Speaker A: Correct. [00:10:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. That dancing analogy is one that I've not heard you use. And I love it because, listen, I love to dance, but I am also filled with trepidation when I do so because I am one of those people that probably should not be dancing in public, but the next time I want to do it, I'm just gonna. You're gonna do it in faith and do it anyway. Do it in faith. [00:11:08] Speaker A: Do it in faith. This is. You say, this is faith. This is faith. This is what faith looks like. [00:11:13] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love it. [00:11:15] Speaker A: It's awkward and scary at times. That's what I mean. [00:11:18] Speaker B: Yes. Awkward and scary. And people are gonna look at you and be like, you're not doing that. Right. [00:11:23] Speaker A: Yeah. But I hope people understand this idea, because it's so important for people to understand what really faith is. [00:11:32] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay, so the COVID of the book, which is called Tomorrow, needs you. Let's talk about the COVID for a second. Both the title and the actual image, because this was created as a collage. Right. Which is very, very cool. So talk to us about the COVID art, the title, all of that. [00:11:49] Speaker A: Yeah. So basically what happens is that after my agent said, hey, you should write a book, entire book about this, I was like, okay, okay. And, you know, I started thinking about what that would look like. So my first thought was this idea of how beauty is solution to fear, because that was a TEDx talk. But as I began thinking about, really the. The topic and what the book was about and why did I even do that talk, I was reminded about my dad. So my dad had inspired a lot of my TED talk, partly because my dad tried to commit suicide and failed at it. But we had a lot of conversations, you know, about that after that, after he did that. And a lot of it was the. The idea that he just felt like no one needed him, like that his life was a disappointment. You know, he was an immigrant. He had worked and in Kuwait, built a business, and then came to the States, and he was working at a convenience store and just felt like, you know, he'd lost so much. And then the fact of his kids were now no longer Muslim kids, they were Christians. Because part of my story is that, you know, not just me, but my family, my siblings, actually came to Christ as well. And so a guy who's kind of felt like, man, he's lost in life and lost so much, and then went through a war, lost business, lost home, and now he's finding himself in a foreign country. I mean, I can. I get it. I get that. And so for him, it was like he didn't really feel that anybody needed him. So he told me, like, you know what? No one needs me. And then out of that, I began thinking about the people in my life that have had thoughts of, you know, suicide, have struggled with that. Have struggled with depression and disappointment for so long. And they truly do believe, similar to what my dad did, and that is that no one needs them. And so I thought, you know what I remember thinking, dad, no, we need you. Your grandkids need you. And so that's when I came up with the idea of, like, I think people need to be reminded, especially people who are going through some really dark times right now, that tomorrow does need them. And so that's the book title, Tomorrow, Tomorrow needs you. And obviously, yes, it's colorful, it's. It's artsy, because of my background, because I love doing art and, you know, and, yeah, so that. That was my. That was my hope. And I really believe in the message, you know, and that's why the. The. The. The subtitle is seeing beauty when you feel hopeless. And so I wanted to connect that. So, yeah, this book is a connection of the TED Talk, and this message of tomorrow needs them. And, yeah, so, yeah, it's really an. [00:14:44] Speaker B: Expansion of that original idea then, right? [00:14:48] Speaker A: Yes, yes, yes. [00:14:50] Speaker B: And so it's broken down. I'm looking at it right here. You've broken it down into three sections. So you've got yesterday, today, and tomorrow, which makes sense in order, you know, chronologically. Um, and so. But the first one is yesterday has forgotten you, which name can sound a little bit harsh. So can you explain to us what that means? What does that mean? Yesterday has forgotten us. [00:15:13] Speaker A: Yeah. So, you know, I find myself struggling with yesterday, as in, like, I think there are times where I look back, like, all of us look back and go, oh, man, those were some amazing seasons. Amazing times. And it's easy to do that, you know, with the social media when you go on Facebook, especially if you go on Facebook, you know, not a lot of people do do. But if you do go on Facebook, you go, man, look at that history. Like, I think if you want to look up someone from the past, you go to Facebook. [00:15:40] Speaker B: Facebook, yeah. [00:15:41] Speaker A: Yeah. And if you want to, you know, keep up with the present, you are on Instagram. You know, that's what it is. Or TikTok. And so I think sometimes people go back and look at the yesterday. And the truth is that for some of us, we want to go back to the glory days or good days or bad, those seasons when life was a certain way. And then some of us, we look back at yesterday, and it's so traumatized us that we keep thinking about it either way. I feel like yesterday could be Likened to a relationship could be likened to a person. And that's why I said, yes, he's forgotten you. So I'm like, I want people to think with me, just imagine with me that if this was a person, that person has forgotten you. It was a relationship that you had. Either it was amazing, but still you broke up, it's over, or it was terrible, you still broke up, it's over. But we want to keep going back to yesterday, and we want to rehearse it. We want to keep talking about it, keep thinking about it, fantasizing about it. And the truth is, yesterday, you know, she or he, he's forgotten you, yesterday's moved on. And so, yeah, I want people to understand that we can't live our lives rehearsing the past. We have to reconcile the past. Reconcile it, which is a big thing, which means you bring it up, the good, bad, and ugly, and then you kind of. You know how you reconcile receipts? You kind of figure out, you close the chapter on that, and you have to do it that yesterday did happen. It was good, bad, whatever it was. But we reconcile it. Because if we can't reconcile the past, you can't create the future. Like, you cannot create the future if you're continually rehearsing the past, because that's what's going to happen. What we don't reconcile, we rehearse. We just keep on easing our heads and our minds or in our values. We keep doing that. And so if you're living a life and you find yourself going, I just feel so down and so out, and I just don't know. And so I'm not quite sure what's going on in my life. Maybe it's not because of the season you're in. Maybe it's because you've been living in the past and you've dragged the past from the past to the present, and you're living it out again and again and again, and. And the first thing you have to reconcile is the past. I talk about in the book. I say that tomorrow is too small for you to live in. Like, I'm sorry. Sorry. Yesterday is too small for you to live in, and your past is too small for you to live in. And that's. I believe that's so true. [00:18:32] Speaker B: Yeah. I actually love the idea of making it like a person. Yesterday's a person. It's a relationship. Because it's true. Right. Like, we want to sit in yesterday, whether it's good or bad. I know. Like, I tend to do it, and I want to Go back. I mean, I can think of people specifically that I'm like, no, I am the way I am because you hurt me in the past. And so. But now because of this visual that, you know, you've created, like yesterday as a, is a relationship I have to remember, remember, like they are literally not thinking about it. They might not even remember that that thing even happened. [00:19:08] Speaker A: Yes. [00:19:08] Speaker B: And so by me bringing that now into my future, present, whatever, like I'm just trying to drag up something that they've moved on from, like. [00:19:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:20] Speaker B: So I guess the danger would be what? That it keeps us rooted in like bitterness and unforgiveness and I mean, all kinds of things, right? [00:19:29] Speaker A: Yeah. But I think it just keeps us rooted in. I know to say again, the past. It just keeps us rooted in something that just has gone. It's past. It's, it's no longer, it's no longer. It's like, it's like when, you know, people tell stories of things that they used to do or they have done. Well, that's wonderful. Well, that's great. But at some point people are going to be like, you got anything new? Like, are you doing anything new here? Like, so if you go on, if you meet a person, if you're a single adult and you're, you sit down on a date and you're you guys talking about your life and the other person, all they're doing is talking about all the stuff that they've done or been through. Been through as in bad, as in sad, but done, as in good, great, awesome things. But now they're not doing anything. There's no future with them. Does that make sense? Because they're really literally rehearsing the past. So I say, yeah, we can't do that. And that's really causes us to be depressed because you're comparing yourself to something that does not exist anymore. [00:20:36] Speaker B: And you're not saying to forget the past. I mean, that's just for clarity's sake too. I mean, definitely the past shapes us. It makes us who we are so that we can move forward into the next part then, which is today is waiting. And so in your, your second section about today, this is when you talk about kind of like the hard hitting things. The fear, the loss, failure, the rejection. What was that like to write? [00:21:01] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it was tough. It was really tough because you know, for me, like writing this book, it's been hard because I, I have dysgraphia and dyslexia, so I have a learning disability. And, and yeah, it was really tough to write this book, literally write this book, because my first book was written with a collaborator, which means, like, not a co writer, but actually a person who physically wrote the book. And so she would do an amazing job. And. And. And so I was like, okay, she did a great job with this, and she's an actual writer, and people were buying this book and did really well. It's a good, big publisher. So I was like, this is great. It's great. So when I started taking this project on, I thought, okay, I really need to write this book again. The past came back and said, okay, well, what if you went back to Kitty? And Kitty was. Kitty Murray was my collaborator. So I called Kitty and I said, hey, I'm writing another book. Would you please help me out? Like, could you do this? I mean, I literally did exactly what I'm telling other people not to do. And that is. I went back to the past and try to rehearse that and go, okay, can we just do this again? Because last time it worked. And she was like. She was so gracious, but she had left, you know, writing, and she was doing another work in her life, and she was like, you know, I would love to do this, but I'm not in this world anymore. And so I was attempting to write this book, and I did write this book by myself, and it was a huge, huge thing. But talking about the section, I had to reconcile. Okay, okay. I know I have a disability. I know I have issues here. I know that English is not my first language. I know that. That I also have a lot of material about fear, failure, rejection, all those things. So I've just got to figure out a way to do this. And so, yeah, like, you know, this. Today is waiting. This. Engaging. Today was very hard because as I was writing this book, I thought, okay, how am I going to do this? I mean, the publisher said 40,000 words. I'm like, I don't know how I'm going to. I don't. That's all the words I know, you know, in the English language. I don't even. I don't think I know 40,000 words in English language. So I'm like, okay, okay, how am I going to do this? And so, yeah, I had to get up every day, in a sense, or every week. I had a plan, and I had to tell myself, name. You're going to go and write a terrible. A terrible chapter. Like, I physically just, you know, like, I don't know, like, do, you know, like, lie to myself in a. In a Weird. Trick my brain or something. You trick yourself and go, okay, okay, just, just write a terrible one, man. Just write a terrible one. Like, okay, I can do it. I can do that. Who, I mean, who. Anybody can write a terrible chapter. So I was like, let's just do that. Let's just do that. So, yeah, in the book, when I talked about this section, I talked about, okay, so what this means is, is that first, for example, if we're going to. If we're going to see beauty, if we're going to. If we're going to create, if we're going to get out of the stuff we're in, like, let's put it simply, like, we're going to get out of the stuff. This, the. If. Whatever we're stuck in, if we're going to get out of this darkness, disappointment, if we're going to do that, we're. What's the first thing to do? First of all, you got to remember is that you've got to put something beautiful before you to fight to dismantle the thing, the biggest fear inside of you. So my solo, my big idea is like, if you want to attempt this thing, if you want to live this life, you want to create this, if you want to move out of despair, instead of looking within yourself, you need to put something before yourself. The passage in scripture, in Hebrews where Jesus talks, where he talks about Jesus, it says he's the author and finisher of our faith. And then it says, for the joy set before him, he endured the cross. And that's really key because I think right there, it gave me this idea of like, okay, here's what we got to do. We've got to put something before us to endure the cross. Like so our cross, we have to put something beautiful. So Jesus put. Imagined a beautiful humanity that was worth dying for. Like, he put redemption of humanity, the closeness of humanity. He put a beautiful dream of imagining that the spirit of God, the spirit, that the spirit of Christ, could live within the human body, that we could be temples of the Holy Spirit. He put this existence of humanity, could live in such a beautiful way, in such a higher level, could live kind of this eternal life. And that was worth dying for, that was worth the pain, that was worth the sorrow. So I believe that he put something before him. And even in the scriptures, you find that people always say, you know, I put the Lord before me. He's at my right hand. I shall not be moved. Like, there's always this constant practice of putting something before you that's bigger and beautiful that I call it, that helps us overcome the rejection and the fear and the anxiety within us. [00:25:58] Speaker B: Yeah. And I. I know, because I've. I've read it already, that it's not always a goal. Right. Like, it doesn't always have to be like, oh, I want to do this thing or overcome this thing. And so I'm putting a goal before me or I'm putting a, you know, writing a chapter or whatever it might be. So what would it be for somebody who is maybe facing disappointment, depression, despair? They're like, I don't have a goal. I don't have a thing that I want to, like, do or accomplish. What would be the beautiful thing that they would put before them? [00:26:30] Speaker A: Yeah, no, it's a great question. So in the book, I kind of talk about the different beautiful things that you could do. Like, so there are stories of, you know, for example, Danielle, she's in the book, and she went through abuse, you know, and sexual abuse. And it's pretty. Pretty jarring the stuff that she's gone through. But what healed her, and it gave her the power to walk through the process of healing and come on the other side of it and finally forgive. The person who did this to her was a beautiful community. And so she put a beautiful community before her, around her, beside her. That helped her. The power, gave her the power to do that. So it really does depend on the. The, I guess the pain, the grief, the problem, what you're going through. And there are times in our life that you've got to put a beautiful goal in front of you, to accomplish, to dismantle or to conquer certain things in your life. Sometimes you got to put a beautiful relationship in front of you. I talk about the fact that some of us have to put a beautiful dream in front of us. Sometimes we have to put a beautiful in relationship with Jesus. You got to put that to overcome some of the things in our life. It's the idea of you got to do the work of finding what is that thing that you got to put in front of you. And the reason why I call it beautiful is because the word beautiful in one sense really means this idea of, like, you know, counting something bigger, more attractive, more. More than something else. So when I use the word beautiful, I'm just saying the bigger. I'm saying what is bigger than your fear? What's bigger than your anxiety? What's bigger than your, you know, humiliation? What's bigger than your disappointment? What's bigger than your grief? And you got to put that before you. Because, you know, beauty is so subjective, you know. [00:28:43] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I think for a lot of people too, maybe that are listening, that are again, are like they're having a hard time even grasping what that, that thing is. I think you did a really, really beautiful job in this book of explaining that the thing that could, that needs to be before them could actually just be their self worth and recognizing who God made them to be and the idea that God actually is present in their pain. He cares about all of it and he loves them no matter what, what failure, rejection, whatever they've experienced. And to me, this was just a great picture of like remembering that God is in the details of all of the things and he cares about all of the things. And I think even just that idea or that possibility that somebody could grasp, oh, God does actually care about me and love me, despite what I may have believed before. Like, that could be the beautiful thing that they're trying to chase after or come to realize. [00:29:44] Speaker A: Yes, yes. Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah. That's so true. So true. I think, I think what you said is profound. I mean, that's really what people need to understand and to embrace because that's going to move them forward in life. [00:30:01] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, we touched on it a little bit, but why? Not necessarily, like, why did you write the book? Because you kind of explained that to us already. But how do you think that this is actually going to change the world? Or what is your hope that will happen to people or within people when they read this? [00:30:21] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. So, I mean, again, you know, this book is so. It's. I think it's, it's. I mean, you've read, so you have your own opinions and love for you to review it, you know, on Amazon when you get a chance. But yeah, it's filled with some really hard stories and so, yeah, man. I mean, this might be a little. I'll just share this. So I have a friend that her husband just shot himself and left two kids and they were going to. Going through a rough time and they were separated and you know, he struggled with alcoholism and you know, it's. It's so. Oh, it's so sad to go, man. You know, why. Why did this. Why did it come to this? You know, and, you know, sent her a note that said, I'm sorry about everything and all that. And I feel like I really want to make. I really want to put something out there in the, in the, in the world and universe and yeah, out there that says, hey, listen, before you believe the lie, before you believe the lie that you know it's, you've gone too far, there's no redemption before you've gone through. I believe the lie that no one needs you and you're a mistake and you've done so many awful things that can never be redeemed. Like, please read this. Please read the stories of people who have done this, because it's not true. Tomorrow does need you. And I believe that's the problem with us, is with Sometimes we find ourselves believing lies that come not even just from our fears and our anxieties, because our fears and anxieties definitely lie to us, but also the fear. Sorry, he also lies from the enemy. You know, Jesus talks about that there is an enemy of our soul that wants to kill, steal, and destroy our lives. And I believe that. I believe that wholeheartedly that there's a God who loves us and then there's an enemy of our soul that hates us. And so if you find yourself. If people find themselves, you know, hearing these negative thoughts, like, they're so negative and they are so cutting, and they're really self abuse, you know, they're like. They're like things you hear or think, like, you should hurt yourself. You should do this, you should do that. No one loves you. You're terrible, you're stupid, you're whatever. You'll never be enough. I mean, there's so many awful things that we can think about. Yeah. That's why this book is so important, because I need people to know that tomorrow does need them, that someone else's tomorrow needs you. And so before you throw in the towel, yeah, read the stories. Let God inspire you. See how God has moved in other people's lives. And we need this. We need this. And it's not just the person who, like, listening to this podcast, goes, oh, yeah, I need to hear that. No, but you know, people who need to hear that, like, everybody needs to know that. Early on, my son. I have a son and a daughter. And I remember on one of his birthdays, I told him this, and I said, you know, the world is better because you're in it. And when I said that to him, I didn't realize how profound it was for him, or even to me, or just on its own to anybody. Like, people don't believe that. They don't believe that the world is better because they're in it. They just don't. I mean, and I'm not saying be narcissistic. Or prideful. I'm just saying the God of the universe made you in his image. He made you his image, the person you are. You're not perfect, but he made you on purpose. And that means you have divine responsibility, you have divine assignment, if you want to call it. You have a divine purpose. There's a reason why you're here. So, yes, the world is better because you're in it. And I also want people to know because I talk about brokenness and beauty and how we are all broken in some way, and that's okay, and that's actually really great. But we are the broken becoming beautiful because of Jesus. But we are also the broken creating beauty because of Jesus, because of what God has done in us and through us, that we get to create. That we get to create beauty. And I also want people to know that there is, you know, people go, well, I think of beauty, and that's not the word I use. You know, I'm just. I don't. I don't live in that world. And see, making something beautiful is. Is this idea of, like, really creating something. It's when you create something, even if it's a, you know, Excel spreadsheet, you know, or a page document or of. Or it's a business, or if it's, you know, a salad, if you love to cook, or if you, you know, or a painting or something. Whenever you create something, when the process of creating in fact makes you closer to your creator, it brings you closer to the creator because your creator created you. And so I think sometimes people go, I just feel distance from God. I just feel. I'm not quite sure. Like, my book is trying to convince people. Like, number one, tomorrow needs you. Number two, you got to know that the world's better with you in it, and you've got a work to do. And doing the work, creating beauty, setting a beauty, working towards something, people don't realize how much they get closer to God as they're creating something. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. [00:36:40] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, and I liked all the different examples that you gave, too, because I know when people think of creating things that, yeah, they probably do either think of, like, art or you're constructing. But no, we can. We can create moments even. [00:36:52] Speaker A: Yes, yes. [00:36:54] Speaker B: You know, that's. That's still creating. And I love too that you said, you know, tomorrow needs you. Not only does, like, tomorrow need you, but also somebody else's tomorrow needs you. And I just. I've been thinking about this book and who all I want to buy it for and I really think that this would be a great gift. I know we've got graduations and things coming up, but this. This is a great gift to give someone else, especially because of what the title is name, because it's. It's hopeful. Like, this is not a gift that's like, hey, you're in a dark, bad place. Like, read this. But for somebody to receive this and go, oh, tomorrow needs me, like, already from the go. It's encouraging and it's inspiring and it's empowering. And so, yeah, I think this is a gift that people could. Could give to people that are going through transitions, whether it's, you know, from high school to college or college to the real world, or like you said, after experiencing, you know, a loss of a relationship or church hurt or whatever it is, it's just so applicable. Why can't I say this word applicable? [00:37:58] Speaker A: I can't even say. Yeah, I can't even do it across. [00:38:01] Speaker B: So many different, you know, stages of life is what I'm trying to say. [00:38:06] Speaker A: That's it. [00:38:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:38:08] Speaker A: Yeah. And I. I do. I do want people to know, too, that, yeah, the. This book isn't. In one sense, I don't know if I could say it's not really soft. You know, I'm saying it's not like, yeah, you know, we can do this and it's going to be okay. It's going to be all right. It's kind of like a. It's not a battle cry, but it's. It's got some more energy in. In it, where it says, hey, we're not going to let. We're not going to let our fears and our failures dictate us, you know, and in fact, in the author's note. Can I read some? Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, in the author's note, I talk about how. Who this book is dedicated to. So I wrote. This book is dedicated to all of us who have ever felt paralyzed by our fears and failures, to all of us who have been through unimaginable trauma and pain, to all of us who are going through grief and despair, to all of us who've experienced the ugliness of this world. But this book is also a declaration to our fears and our failures, to our trauma and our pain, to our grief and despair. You will not imprison us. And so I want people to have that kind of courage as they do the work and that kind of commitment and say, I'm not going to let my past, my trauma, what's happened to me, dictate what will happen to me. That makes sense. [00:39:44] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and the book is also very real. I know as someone who has read, I think self help is one of the categories maybe that this is in, but this is a refreshing spin on that, I would say. I've read many a self help book where I get to the end of it and I'm like, well, that was a lot of words, but like, it didn't say anything, you know, and so just thank you for writing something that is. Yes, it's, it's helpful and it's inspiring, but it's also honest and it's real and it's authentic. And I think through your vulnerability and through sharing things that you've experienced, that's what's really going to help people to understand there are other people in their situation and God really is with them no matter where they are. [00:40:27] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Yes. I'm hoping that it will not be a self help book, but it is coming out like next week or so. So it's, it's in the month of Mental Health Awareness Month. And so, yeah, I, I want this to be another alternative, you know, another resource for people to. Yeah. Who are pushing through this and trying to get on to the other side. [00:40:51] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, Naem, let me ask you the last question, the same question that I ask everybody on this podcast, and that is this, because the podcast is called Becoming Church. How can the people listening maybe create beauty to become the church to the people around them? [00:41:07] Speaker A: How can they create beauty? Yeah, I think the church has a great responsibility and a great opportunity to. When it comes to, when it comes to creating beauty. And here's what I mean. I mean, a community, a beautiful community. Like there is, there's only one organization I know that has the responsibility to create a beautiful community. I mean, we have community parks, we have community centers, we live in a community. And yeah, you know, organizations or planners or city planners, they come together and they're like, we're going to make something a beautiful place for people to live in, a beautiful place for people to shop, a beautiful place, all that. But the church has the ability to actually create a beautiful community, that the people in that community are in beautiful relationships like they're connected to one another, and the church has an opportunity to do that. So, yeah, the way the Christians could do that, become the church is to create a community where people, everyone is included, a very inclusive community that says, hey, you know, everybody come to the table. Different people come to the table. And that's the, that's I think when you create a mosaic, and, you know, that's the church that we created, and that is a mosaic of people, and that's why we call it we are beautiful because it's beautiful. Different expressions of people coming together, living together. And even though they have different opinions about things, there is a sense of unity, and that's a beautiful thing. So, yeah, the way you can create beauty as the church right now is to create a beautiful community of people who are different from one other, are choosing to love together, and be in relationship with one another. So, yeah, that's my answer. [00:43:09] Speaker B: I love it. That's great. What a way to end. Well, listen, I know that, again, we. We obviously think everyone should read this book. Go ahead and buy it, guys. It's. It comes out in just over a week. But also, because you are an artist and a creator, if people just love this message of tomorrow needs you, and they want to just put that out into the world. You've also created merch. [00:43:36] Speaker A: Yes. [00:43:36] Speaker B: With this message on it. [00:43:38] Speaker A: Yes. For a second, I was like, what is she talking about? Yes, I have. Yes. Yes. So there's a. There's. Yeah. T shirts and sweatshirts and hoodies and hats. [00:43:47] Speaker B: We'll put it in the show notes, too. Make it real easy for me. [00:43:49] Speaker A: Perfect. [00:43:50] Speaker B: Well, thank you for being here, everybody. Go get this book and remember that tomorrow needs you. [00:43:56] Speaker A: Awesome. [00:44:02] Speaker B: That's just it, right? We get to create beauty by reflecting our creator, God, who made us to do just that. So whether you're creating art, food, words, or moments, you're being Jesus. You're becoming the church to the people around you, and we would love nothing more to do just that for you. If you're missing a beautiful community, we would love for you to join us at Mosaic Church in Charlotte or online. You can also reach out to either of us personally. Naim is on Instagram ayemfazl, and I'm Hristenmachler Young, where we do what we can to bring the truth of the gospel and the hope of what it means in our lives to everything we do, even on social media. We'd love to connect with you over there. Be sure to share this episode with someone who needs the reminder that tomorrow needs them as your action step this week of becoming the church to the people around you. [00:44:58] Speaker A: Sam.