Rachel Awtrey: Love Your Life

[00:00:10] Speaker A: Welcome to Becoming Church, the podcast where we discuss how the message and movement of Jesus is not just about becoming Christians, but about becoming the church. I'm your host, Kristin Mochler Young and my guest today is Rachel Autry. You may know her from her podcast Real Talk with Rachel, a show which has been added to the that Sounds Fun network. You know, the one with Annie F. Downs, our original podcast bestie. Rachel is an online encourager and first time author who is going to help us see how to love our lives even when we don't like them all of the time. Well, hello Rachel. Welcome to the podcast. [00:00:50] Speaker B: Hey, Kristen. So fun to be here. Feel like was it. It was like a year and a half ago really that we like met and became friends. [00:00:58] Speaker A: I know, right? And then we met up when you were still writing this book in Charlotte. Do you remember? I remember like being talking over coffee and you're like, I'm working on this project. [00:01:08] Speaker B: I remember sitting at the coffee shop near South Park. [00:01:12] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:01:13] Speaker B: And was really like digging through some of the really hard parts of a certain chapter. And then I think we had coffee set up right after I had finished writing or like, you know, I put a book end to the writing. So like. And you were like such a fun way to round out the rest of the day. [00:01:31] Speaker C: So. [00:01:31] Speaker B: I know guys, we are real life friends, I promise. Real life friends. [00:01:34] Speaker A: I know sometimes people are like, you say that people are your friends, but are they really? And I'm like, yeah, I'm not going to say that if I just met them for the first time. [00:01:42] Speaker B: Like, no, you're the real deal. Crazy. [00:01:44] Speaker A: Oh, well, thank you. And I'm so excited. We're going to get to the book in a second because this thing we chatted about over coffee is now here, like in my hands. But first I want people to get to know you. [00:01:55] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:01:56] Speaker A: So let's do a quick fire Q A. I want to know something that you. Because your book is called Love youe Life. So I want to know something that you love and something that you don't love about all of these things. Okay. [00:02:07] Speaker B: Okay, okay. All right. [00:02:08] Speaker A: The first one, Summer. What do you love and not love about Summer? [00:02:13] Speaker B: I love. I think everyone is a little bit more available. Like the spontaneity of it all. Love it. I'm like a spontaneous friend. I'll text you at 3pm asking what you're doing for dinner that night and invite you over. So like, I think Summer just feels a little bit more flexible and I love that I don't Love. We're in Alabama and the humidity. You step out of your house and you feel like you're suffocating. [00:02:35] Speaker C: Yes. [00:02:36] Speaker B: So I think it's just the heat and, like, the. The, like, thickness of the air. Yeah, for sure. [00:02:41] Speaker A: People that live in dry states, I think, do not understand that, like, you walk outside and you feel like you have to, like, literally separate it, like, with your hands. [00:02:49] Speaker B: I walk through the curtain of ugg. [00:02:52] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:02:52] Speaker B: We. We used to live in California in the summers, and it was delightful because although it's hot and you're kind of sweating, but it almost evaporates, like, immediately. [00:03:01] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:03:01] Speaker B: So you don't, like, you're not wet, and then in Alabama, you're just, like, always drenched. You're just like, oh, it's just. You got to embrace the glisten. [00:03:08] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:03:09] Speaker A: You don't need highlighter. It's not necessary in the summer, do we? [00:03:13] Speaker B: It just comes with it. All right. Skin cares, Alabama. [00:03:18] Speaker A: No, that's right. That's right. Social media. What do you love and not like about it? [00:03:23] Speaker B: Oh, I love. I really do love social media. I'm that girl. I'm like. I just. It's like. It's like an online scrapbook is how it feels like you can be creative with colors, with photos and, like, stickers. Like, it truly is. It's like an online scrapbook for me. And I love that it feels crafty. And I don't love. I just like the. The accessibility to, like, anything and everything and everybody. It's just, like, right there. Yeah, that. That's the part I'm like, oof. I wish we. There was a way to, like, only get enough, nothing more. [00:03:54] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [00:03:55] Speaker A: And I can just hear somebody listening, being like, there are, like, filter it set. That never works for me. [00:04:04] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, I mean, like, even if. I mean, the hard part about social media is you can scroll and not know what you're gonna get. It's kind of like roulette. Like, you literally scroll, and it could be motherhood advice that you hear five seconds of, and then it kind of like, mind bends you and you're like, oh, wait, I don't do it. So a lot of it is unsolicited, and I think that's what I mean. Like, I wish there was boundaries to be. Like, what am I about to see? Yeah, you can't do that. But, like, a podcast is super fun because you're like, I click play on purpose. I know, right? [00:04:32] Speaker A: Fear. [00:04:32] Speaker B: So, yeah. So thank you all for today. Yeah. [00:04:36] Speaker A: Even if it's a Good thing on social media, you're like, I was not in the mind frame for this. Like, I wasn't ready. [00:04:40] Speaker B: Yeah, I know. Like, I was not ready to. To watch that. Yeah, exactly. [00:04:44] Speaker A: All right, how about mothering or motherhood? Something you love and something you don't. [00:04:47] Speaker C: Like. [00:04:49] Speaker B: I love just the right rowdiness. I am a. I'm a boy mom, so I feel like that's just a certain niche of motherhood. And we. I. I don't know, they just, they. They require a certain energy of me that is so fun because otherwise, like, I wouldn't play the way that I do without them. And so I think that they just as encourages. It's. It has encouraged play in my life. I love that. I don't love. We're so close to being out of diapers. And can I say, like, we will be, like, cheersing, clinking all the. Like, I am so over it. I had two boys, basically back to back, and so we've been in diapers for a minute, like, and I. I'm so over it, Kristen. I'm so over it. [00:05:40] Speaker A: You're so close. You're so close. [00:05:42] Speaker B: I'm so close. I'm like, I think it's a dumb thing to spend money on. I think it's just as gross as people say it is. Like, I just. I love my voice to death, and I will take care of them forever and ever. But that's the one thing I'm like, that's for the birds, for sure. Fair. [00:05:58] Speaker A: Fair. You're almost there. [00:06:00] Speaker B: You probably were thinking about something deeper. And here I go. [00:06:03] Speaker A: No, not even a little bit. Not even a little bit. No. That's my. That's my favorite thing about this show is I'm like, Sometimes we go 45 levels down, and sometimes I'm like, no, we're going to float right here on the top. And it's all just as important. [00:06:15] Speaker B: Like, you know, this matters. Yeah. [00:06:19] Speaker C: All right. [00:06:19] Speaker A: What about podcasting something you love and don't love? [00:06:22] Speaker B: Oh, I have met some of my favorite people in this industry through the podcast world. I think just being able to connect. I mean, it's. It's a. It's a blind date most times. Like, most of the people that come on my show, I don't have any context to. Or, like, we're meeting for the first time behind a microphone, and then we're expected to have this, like, soul deep conversation. So how do you walk away from that without being like, hey, can I get your digits? Like, it is a. It is the coolest way to meet friends in an industry where you believe something similar. So I'd say that, like just the network, it's just so fun. The hard part about podcasting are things I don't love. I think the expectation to be so open and public about things while I'm also still processing so much, I think that's just ministry. But especially when you have something public like a podcast where anyone could listen to. Even to the old stuff that I sometimes regret posting, it's like, I don't know, it kind of goes back to the social media thing. Like, it's hard to figure out and really discern what's for me, what's for our home, what's for our friends, and then what's for the public. So, yeah, that's been always pretty clunky for me. [00:07:33] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:07:34] Speaker A: Okay, well, saved the biggest one, the hardest one for last Christianity. What do you love and what do you not love about it? [00:07:43] Speaker B: Oh, man, I love explaining the gospel to people in a way that I'm. [00:07:52] Speaker C: Like. [00:07:54] Speaker B: If you were to. Okay. One of my favorite parts recently is reading the Bible. As if I didn't have the privilege of growing up in a Bible believing home and really, truly for the first time. And it's so funny because I'm like, okay, if God, if, if I were God, which praise God, I'm not, if I were him, like, some of these stories would just like not include, you know, it like, doesn't really make me look good. Like having to try a miracle two times because Jesus didn't get it right, quote unquote, the first time or like things I'm like, that is, I would kind of rewrite it, but the fact that like the Bible is so truthful for real, includes all of the mess to show us that our mess is the purpose. Like our mess is the barrier. But yet God still came through through Jesus to be able to give us him is like the coolest thing. I, I'm, I'm obsessed with that right now. [00:08:43] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:08:44] Speaker B: And just that he's so on that God's so honest to make himself. I don't know. For real, for us. [00:08:51] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:08:51] Speaker B: The thing that I don't love about, I'll say perceived Christianity. [00:08:57] Speaker C: Okay. [00:08:57] Speaker B: But I don't love about perceived Christianity is just like feeling the overall culture sometimes at unhealthy churches of having to like come polished. We are thankfully at like a really awesome church. And confession is a part of our monthly routine and discipline within our home groups, like our small groups. And that has healed me Just to church. Because I'm like, okay, you actually. Are y' all ready for this? And we're like, yeah. They're like, yeah, yeah, what do you got? And I'll come with a really nasty confession. And they're like, that doesn't surprise it, like, heard worse. I'm like, oh, thank God. So I just, I want to say, like, the thing I don't love about Christianity, like I said, perceived Christianity is that you have to have it together. When like true pursuit of Christ is. Includes confession and like having to say, I don't have it all together. [00:09:50] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:09:51] Speaker B: So that's a love and a hate all wrapped up in one. [00:09:53] Speaker A: No, it's good. I have a follow up question though, because as someone who. I think the only time I was in a small group where confession was part of it was it was not like voluntary confession. And it felt more like, no, say the thing. No. And it felt like it was like being like pulled out of me to the point that I remember talking to one of the other girls. This was in college. I remember talking to one of the other girls and it was like I felt like we weren't allowed to leave until we admitted to something that either people didn't need to know or maybe even wasn't real, but it was like the leaders really just got stuck on like specific sin. And it's like, no, you, you have. [00:10:38] Speaker B: This and you have to like figment something up. Yeah, truly. [00:10:42] Speaker A: And so, so when I hear confession, I'm like, yeah, like somebody's. It just feels icky. So can you, without going into details, like, what does that actually look like in a healthy way in your groups? [00:10:53] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Well, first, I think it's really important to note just the context of these groups. Our church puts us in here, truly by like zip code and prayer. [00:11:03] Speaker A: Like, that's okay. [00:11:04] Speaker B: There's not, it's not like a moms or a older singles. Like, there's no niche to this. It's true. Like, sometimes some of the groups, like your only similarity is the fact that you love Jesus and you're in this group together. That's it. And so it's multi generational. It's different seasons of life or whatever. So I think that that adds like a huge aspect to it because it's not like me confessing a mom thing to other moms who can compare themselves to me. It is me confessing things to widows and young college dudes. And. And I will also say that we're separated. Like, the women have their own confession time. The men go on the back porch and have their own convention time. But it's this idea that, like, I. If you do so need a space, which I think we all do at some point in time. [00:11:50] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:11:50] Speaker B: To have to be safe and to say something like, yo, I really gotta get this off my chest. Like, it's keeping me up at night. And I just, like, need to know. I need someone to know that I'm thinking about this. And we've had really intense things, and we've also had, like, hey, I'm really discontent materialistically. Like, we've had everything in between. And I also say, like, vulnerability breeds vulnerability. So, like, there. There's no pressure to go. But with the lack of pressure, oftentimes people will say, like, I don't have anything. And then at the end, they're like, okay, actually, I do. Because after hearing so many other things, other people open up. You're like, one, this is safe. Two, my spirit is now stirred. And three, maybe I found the words to say what I thought I needed to say. Because at the end of the day, how your sin manifests and how my sin manifests could be different, but the root sin very often is so similar. So after hearing other people talk about it, whether it's, like, pride or whatever, you're like, wait, oh, wait, hold on. That's what. That's what mine is. And so it's. I don't know. There's no pressure, but it often just kind of happens. We've been in this group for, like, three years. They've seen. They've seen stuff hit the fan. So. [00:12:59] Speaker C: Yeah, well. [00:13:00] Speaker A: And I think the key difference there, Rachel, between what I experience and what you're talking about is. I mean, you said it's vulnerability. It's not a, hey, I'm going to yank something out of you. But it's more of just, like, being honest with. Hey, this is what I'm thinking about. This is what I'm wondering about. Like, it's not. It's not confession. Like, you have to go into a closet. I don't know what they're called. What are they called? In the Catholic. I know, like, closets. [00:13:24] Speaker B: In the Catholic. Yeah, exactly. [00:13:27] Speaker A: Not Catholic, but it's not that. Of, like, I have to tell you my deepest, darkest thing. Like, no, just be a normal person and, like, talk about what life is happening, you know? [00:13:36] Speaker B: And then, like, there's earning the right to be heard. So I think at this point, like, the last few months have been really, really tough for our family. And so it's been interesting because last confession, I was like, you. You don't want me to open my mouth. I promise, you don't want me to open my mouth. You know, and then because they love me and because I've been honest before, they're like, hey, Rach, how is the blah, blah, blah? And I'm like, you're right. So I think there's also this, like, all just needing to trust the people around you. And there's going to be times that they. They do lovingly have to yank it. [00:14:07] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:14:08] Speaker B: But for my own good. And I leave feeling lighter versus I'll be honest. Sometimes I go into confession, I'm like, I don't want to talk about it, but maybe someone will ask and that will be my, like my. I'll be my sign from God. [00:14:19] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:14:20] Speaker B: Say this thing. And so sometimes we have to be okay with someone yanking it a bit because that's the only, like, I could be crying for help and that's the life raft someone throws to me. So in a trust relationship. Yeah, it's a both and it is a both and. But there has to be some safety, trust, patience, like all those things built up. [00:14:42] Speaker C: So. Yeah. [00:14:44] Speaker A: Well, before we jump into your book, talk to me a little bit about. You are also a podcaster. So tell us about Real Talk and what is that like and what's, you know, what's the whole vibe of the show? [00:14:56] Speaker B: Yeah, we. So Real Talk started. Oh, I'm trying to do math. 2018. What is that? Seven years ago. And it started being called a different show. I had a friend who was hosting it with me. It started out of boredom. We needed some fun summer project and we had typically women on the show to share what was going on for real in their life. A lot like this. And at the time in 2018, it was like NPR Crime Junkies and then like churches putting their sermons up from Sunday. So I felt like there really wasn't any in the Venn diagram, sitting in the middle between entertainment and faith. And I was like, where's the talk show that feels clean, but also you could be doing your dishes and not have to take notes. [00:15:37] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:15:37] Speaker B: And so we kind of made it. And that's what it is. It's still that to this day. It's a solo show now. So I do it on my own. I have really fun, wise, hilarious people, from musicians to authors, sometimes my husband, we do solo shows and the idea is that we bring like some faux pas. Funny conversation in a way that feels light hearted, but also you didn't waste your time. Like you learned something new. You walk away with some new wisdom, you know, so that's my prayer, at least for it. And it's a whole lot of fun. [00:16:05] Speaker A: I love it. Well, we'll link it up so that people. I think if people like this show, they'll like your show. Like, similar vibes. [00:16:11] Speaker B: Similar vibes for sure. [00:16:14] Speaker A: Well, now you have a brand new book, it's just about to be out called Love youe Life Even when you don't like it all the Time. A realistic guide to unlocking joy in life's messy, mundane and magnificent moments. [00:16:28] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:16:28] Speaker A: How excited are you right now? [00:16:31] Speaker B: Beyond. [00:16:32] Speaker C: Yeah, beyond. [00:16:35] Speaker B: I was looking at some pictures with a friend last night because I was trying to show her something. You know, you're like, oh, and this outfit, or here's a big picture. So you're like scrolling back through your camera roll. And I saw this picture of me from. I think it was 20, 20, 2021. And I like, felt like something come up, like I want to go give her a hug, like I want to love on her and like, literally hand her this book. And it made me both sad because I'm like, oh, I. I know. I know more than I want to know about her. But also made me so proud because I'm like, one, we've come a long way. Two, we've done something like legacy worthy with it. And I know how helpful this project could be. Like this book could be for her. And so I am like Chris and I am, like the most pumped. I'm so excited. [00:17:23] Speaker A: I'm so excited. [00:17:24] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:17:24] Speaker A: I mean, anything that can heal you or heal a past version of you as well as then knowing, like, no, then you can know with confidence, no, this is actually going to help people. That's amazing. [00:17:36] Speaker B: That's so fun. [00:17:38] Speaker A: One of your big themes is joy. You talk a lot about joy. And so in the book you say that happiness is based on what's happening around you, but joy is based on what's happening within you. So kind of unpack those ideas for us a little bit. [00:17:53] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. So this book was really birthed off of this idea that, like, maybe we, we being Christian women, have joy all wrong. And I think a lot of it too is just. I mean, it's. It's partly just culture. I think it's partly maybe our fault. Like we haven't like, really dug deeper, done the work. And I also just think it's just like, what's coming from the pulpit. A lot of times we Love to talk about sor and grief and sadness and hope and healing and all the things that are so helpful and honorable. But like, where's the conversation with the confetti and like the fun? And if anyone should be having the most fun time this side of heaven, should it not be us because we're the ones with the greater hope? Like, I don't get it. Why is everyone so sad? And there's a place for sadness and even you can have joy within sadness, but the sadness and the sorrow and the grief and whatever, like, cannot have the last word if you believe that Jesus is exactly who he says he is. And I wrote this book for that to be like, okay, we can talk around it, but let's talk about it and actually give you practicals for what it looks like. Do this in your life for real. Um, so when I started going on this hunt, I realized a lot of us, we know with our minds the difference between joy and happiness, but to make that 18 inch connection is really clunky. [00:19:07] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:19:07] Speaker B: So I just talk about how joy is regardless of what's happening around you. It's available right now. It's a gift. It's not a personality trait. And it's a skill. With like any good skill, you have to practice and get good at and show up when you don't feel like it. Michael Jordan, one of the coolest and like basketball players ever, like, had to get good by picking up the basketball, even on days he didn't feel like it, and dribbling and shooting and missing and asking teammates to come in and help him. And that is the only way he got good. And so similar. If joy is a skill, there's gotta be, there's, there's drills, there's things we do, there's discipline and there's a lot of fun. So yeah, that's it. [00:19:49] Speaker A: Well, and I love that you say that it's a skill because I think that kind of erases the excuse for anybody to be like, well, I'm just not that kind of person. Or like you said, that's not my personality. It's something we can practice, it's something we can learn. And you have a lot of that in the book I'm looking at. You have a whole chart in here on like, what kind of hard day is this? And how does it threaten my joy? And I was like, this is. Is so important to help people identify what kind of hard they're having, because are there different kinds of joy, like, based off of that? [00:20:24] Speaker B: Okay, good question. I like to think that joy is just one, one thing. It is. Joy is joy. But the ways that we tap into joy or, like, what makes joy hard, we have to get good at identifying what's getting in our way of it and what's threatening our access or our perceived access to joy. I think women especially, I'll say me for sure, or even maybe it's just my friend group, but I'm just gonna, like, be pretty assuming here and say, a lot of women listening, we're really good at, like, catastrophizing things, like making something really big, although it's not. And so I think the first step to finding joy is just being so beyond honest with where you actually are and not turning random little interruptions and typical things into tragedies so that when tragedies do happen, you know where to contain it and, like, where to put it in its place. And when tough things happen, you know where to put it in its place. And when every day, random little stressors happen, like, you know where to put it in its place. And until we actually know how to see things for what they are on a level of severity and how we emotionally have to show up to them, it's gonna be really tough to also know. How do I combat this? Yeah, I think of, like, whenever Thomas is gone. My husband is a military. Is a guy in the military. How do you say that? Service member. There you go. A long day. He is often deployed. And when he's gone, I'll just tell you right now, I am not the handy woman in my home, but if I buy a cute little frame from home goods, I am gonna hang it up. I'm not waiting the four months till he comes back. So I will grab whatever quote unquote tool I can find to get the nail on the wall. Oftentimes it's not a hammer or, like, it's not a drill. It's something I can just, like, find and just make it work. Is it efficient? No. Are there multiple holes in the wall from all my attempts? Yes, but it worked, I guess. And I feel like that's how so many of us are going around life. Like, I mean, I guess it works, but it wasn't efficient. We made more of a mess than we needed to. And so actually figuring out what kind of day is it and then what does that mean about how I'm going to access joy in this moment is kind of like finding the right tool and not trying to hang up a picture frame on the wall with a wrench when you should have Put a. Used a hammer, you know, So I just. It's important we, like, get it right. And like I said, it's a skill. So all the compassion and grace, but, like, we. We've got to start showing up and getting good. [00:22:58] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:22:59] Speaker A: And so in the book, then, you have strategies for people to help them understand. Like, hey, here's where you're maybe using a wrench instead of a hammer or. [00:23:08] Speaker B: That kind of thing. [00:23:10] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:23:11] Speaker A: To work them there. [00:23:11] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:23:13] Speaker A: Well, because you kind of have the book broken down into three stages. And so I'm sure that we have people listening in all of these life stages. So I want to help them identify how to find joy in the messy, the mundane, and the magnificent. So let's start with the messy moments. And to me, when I think of messy, I think, like, things that are hard, maybe loss, maybe confusion, maybe overwhelm. How do people find joy in those moments? [00:23:41] Speaker B: Yes. Okay. This is. This is, like, my major. If I could just, like, have a flashing siren, it would be. This little category is the exact reason why joy is required and not just on the other side. [00:23:56] Speaker C: Okay. [00:23:57] Speaker B: It is the fuel to actually get us through the messiness. Not something. It's like, let's clean it up so that then we can find joy. It's like, what? Joy is right here to help me clean this up. And not cleaning it up because we need to, but cleaning up because we know that there's something beyond that. We've been prompt. Like, surely your goodness and mercy will follow me all the days of my life. Like scripture tells us these things. So we're like, okay, well, then surely, where is it? You know, Like, I need to know. And so I. I think that this part is probably the hardest one to talk through because I have been. I know I have friends that have walked through impossible situations, but have yet looked back on pictures or memories or even just reflection and been like. But yet, like, there was actually still so much to enjoy that maybe they didn't feel the permission that they were able to enjoy it because of what was happening. And so really, this whole. This whole part is like, how do you hold both? I'm not asking you to set down what you're walking through in order to pick up joy. I'm just asking you to realize that you have room to carry both. And then tons of practicals about, okay, but then, like, how do I actually do it? And I love talking about it. So that's what that whole little section is and where I spend a lot of the time, because that is probably the. The clunkiest part to work through. [00:25:17] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:25:17] Speaker A: I feel like this is the one that takes the most practice. Like, you talked about it as a skill to be able to hold the tension of both. Is there. Rachel, Is there something specific? I think especially in the messy, like, we're tempted to get into spiritual platitudes, right? Where a lot of times people can feel like, oh, you're just telling me it's gonna get better. It's just a season. But, like, when you're actually in the messy, like, don't, like, mince me with that. I don't want to hear any of that. Right When I'm actually in the messy, hard things. Do you have a practical way that people listening, if they're in that season, can be like, okay, I am walking, and maybe the hardest thing of my life. How am I supposed to find joy? Like, how do I actually search this out? [00:26:03] Speaker B: It makes me think of, yeah, there's a season where I was walking through a deep loss. And I was also. I had a birthday two days after the loss, and friends of mine were trying to throw me a birthday party. The stories in the book, and I basically told them, like, impossible. Not fair, not cute. [00:26:25] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:26:26] Speaker B: How? And they're like, if ever there was a time to have a birthday party, it should be now. Like, now is the time when you need to celebrate. I was like, but I don't. It just feels so awkward. And they're like, right, Because. Because it's so foreign, and it's something that you're gonna have to literally train yourself to do. And so thankfully, I kind of learned what that was like to be able to do both practically. It looked like noticing and honoring what was around me that actually, like, needed the good attention to, like, okay, yes, there is a loss. But also, I am so proud, Grateful brings me so much joy that there are friends that are gathering to still celebrate my life. You know, things like that. [00:27:11] Speaker C: That. [00:27:11] Speaker B: Lisa Turke. You steer where you stare, and when you're, like, looking at the right side of the road when you're driving, you will naturally go to the. How many times are you, like, passing back a snack to your kids? [00:27:22] Speaker C: Right? [00:27:23] Speaker B: Like, you start actually veering, and you feel like that on the side of the road, that is life, too. That, like, when you start looking at. Man, this is so hard. Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. Like, there's power in our words. We're told, like, the power of life and death is in our tongue. So if we're speaking, like, hard things, we will See and feel a lot of the hard things. And I'm not asking you to dismiss it, but I'm asking you to do both. Like, maybe even sandwich it with. I am so overwhelmed right now, but I have help. Let me go call them. I am really upset right now. Let me go see if maybe I can find a counselor or a therapist. Help me walk through this. I am even like the small little typical things. Like, I am really frustrated that my boys can't find their shoes. Right. Or like the diapers. Like, at the beginning, I'm like, this is so obnoxious. So, like, maybe I'll put them in an easier spot to find. Right. So it's just like us actually taking ownership over the things that we actually do rather than think that that's the end of the story. That's very practical. Even more practical. Like, write them down and say it out loud. Like, I think that a lot of times my compliments stay in my head. Or like the things I'm grateful for stay in my head because there's no one around. Or like, I'm in the shower. I'm like, who's going to hear me? [00:28:39] Speaker A: Right? [00:28:39] Speaker B: I will hear me. [00:28:40] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:28:40] Speaker B: Like, it is important for our ears to hear the praises on our lips. It's not just for everybody else. It's for us too. And so what does it look like for you to actually, it seems woo woo. It feels really weird and like you're talking to actually nobody because you are. But, like, say it out loud because your ears also need to hear it too. And. Or write down a list. [00:28:58] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:28:58] Speaker B: So I think just keeping count of the joy that's around us makes it easier than to see the joy that's around us hiding in plain sight. [00:29:10] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:29:10] Speaker A: My. I've said to my kids before, like, your heart is listening. So when you say things. And obviously they're kids, right? And they're girls and they're dramatic because their mom is dramatic. But like, sometimes they say things that I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I know you have big feelings about this and you're upset, but especially when they're like, talking poorly about themselves, I'm like, no, no, your heart is listening. And so I know even though you don't mean this thing, you're taking it in. And so the same is true then. Yes. Obviously for the good. If we can say out loud the good things, our heart, our souls are going to take those in as well. [00:29:46] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:29:47] Speaker A: Do you think the lie that we tend to believe when we can't find joy Especially in these messy moments. Is that, like, it's going to invalidate the hard. [00:29:58] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:29:59] Speaker B: Or I think that a lot of times people around us, social media will tell us that we're just not being. We're being unrealistic or we're being fake or we're being whatever. And I don't think that fake is the word. I think unrealistic is close. I think it's actually just supernatural, and I think it's having to tap into a resource that is so unearthly. [00:30:26] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:30:27] Speaker B: I think of just even, like, what the gospel is that. Like, I said this on a podcast with a friend recently, but I was like, if anyone had a hall pass. For what joy or for experiencing joy here on Earth, it should have been Jesus himself, because he came to Earth knowing he was going to be murdered and betrayed. Not when, not how, not by who. So he's walking around, like, could have been on eggshells. Like, so anxious, so nervous, so reserved. So, like, I'm gonna sit this one out, y'. All. I don't know. I'm a little. Today. [00:30:55] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:30:55] Speaker B: Instead, like, he did miracles. He showed up, he healed people, he understood people. He sat, took time, was patient, had conversation, delighted. Dance died. Like, he did it. Like, he. He just full sin on the celebration, knowing the hard was to come and not even knowing that hard was going to be here, but knowing what the heart was. Right. So if we, too, are promised, like, we're gonna have hard. And I'm not Jesus, but I'm called to live a life like his. Like, I will, like, buckle up and actually delight in things. And I think that it does him a disservice. Like, the whole. Though we're told, like, the whole world is groaning. So, like, who's going to be the messenger? Like, who's going to be the bearer of the best news? And I don't know. I don't want to. Like, if a chef is not excited to be in the kitchen, I don't want to eat your food. [00:31:47] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:31:47] Speaker B: That is similar. Like, if I. If I'm not having. And it's not about performance. Hear me say this, too. Like, it's not about faking it. [00:31:55] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:31:55] Speaker B: So that you can, like, show people. I think it's actually being honest with what kind of hard day you're having and how it's threatening your joy, but pursuing it anyways is the best model of saying, I am really going through it, but I'm actually going to display the hope that's greater and beyond here. So that other People kind of lean in and, like, that's funky. Like, how does she. How does she do that? Like, what? And I have had people say, like, I know you're walking through it. Like, how do you still show up? Like, how do you still. And I'm able to say, it's not my. It's not my own strength. It's like, I have received a gift, and you have the same gift in front of you, too. You better unwrap it. And so I just. [00:32:39] Speaker C: It's. [00:32:39] Speaker B: It's not fake. I'm, in fact, like, you actually, in order to pursue joy and unlock it in the first place, you have to be honest with where you're at. [00:32:47] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:32:47] Speaker B: But it's about, again, not setting one down to do the other. It's about holding both. [00:32:52] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:32:53] Speaker A: It's living. Like, we believe that that joy is real and that that hope is true and that it actually changes even our hardest situations. [00:33:02] Speaker B: Yeah, totally. Totally. [00:33:03] Speaker A: All right, well, how about for people who are maybe in the mundane moments, maybe they just feel, like, bored. Maybe they feel kind of overlooked or they've got unmet expectations for people that are in the season of just kind of, like, waiting for what's to come. How do we find joy there? [00:33:21] Speaker B: I love this. I. I was there for a really long time. [00:33:24] Speaker C: Okay. [00:33:25] Speaker B: And it started with just, like, making very small decisions and again, being attuned to noticing how they actually changed and shaped my day. Like I said, we don't have control over everything, but we have control over a lot. Like, he's given us a lot of dominion here on Earth, and so what do we do with it is up to us. And I think of even. Oh, y', all, this is going to sound so vain. I'm just going to go here. Kristen. I feel like I can. But, like, pouring your Lacroix in a cute cup or like, actually, like, going to the thrift store and finding a coffee mug that you look forward to pouring your coffee in every day. Or go put your feet in the grass. Okay. [00:34:02] Speaker A: Like, lighting candle only saved for when people were coming over when you're the only one home, Right? [00:34:08] Speaker C: Yes. [00:34:09] Speaker B: Eat dinner on the china that you were saving for Christmas and Easter. Like, if you like somebody's something something, shoes, earrings, outfit, like, actually say it out loud and tell them. I think it's. It's just so much simpler. And I think that that's one of the enemy's greatest tools, is just to convince us it's complicated. And being like, it's just so hard to do this. And I'm like, no, actually think it's just so easy. We overlook it because we think it should be complicated or it should be profound or it should be something. And I'm like, no. Like, there's, like, flowers that are actually weeds that God gave us, like, that grow in the wild, you know, to enjoy on our way home, or, I don't know, pull your car over and pick them. Like, there's just so many little nuggets for us to pick up and collect as evidence that one day they all add up to something. Like I said, my husband is a pilot, and you. They can be one degree off in their gps. And the further they go, the farther they get away from their actual intended destination. And it's us, too. I'm like, I think it's just, like, one degree, little changes that we make that we realize the further along we get, the more steps we take, the more years we live, the longer we do life with Jesus, we see us a lot more closer to the destination he intended for us. So I just don't think it should be complicated. I don't think it's. [00:35:28] Speaker C: It. [00:35:28] Speaker B: I think it. It is frivolous. I think he's kind to make it so obvious that we don't have to be on this massive treasure hunt and follow a map. He's like, here you go. There you go. Do you see it or do you not? [00:35:40] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:35:41] Speaker B: So I think, like, the mundane, I get it, but also, like, I want people to get it, too. [00:35:47] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:35:47] Speaker B: And the people that have. It's. It's so fun to see it unlocked once people just start practicing that. [00:35:54] Speaker C: Yeah. I think. [00:35:56] Speaker A: Well, you mentioned earlier, even the idea of the book was trying to redefine what joy is. And I would say I am one of those people that had to do that, especially for moments like this. I say that I have a very, very high bar for fun. Like, if I'm not belly laughing and, like, crying, and it's not like, the best night of the whole year, then if somebody was like, was it fun? I'm like, no, it was good. But, like, I. I don't know. I have this weird thing where I'm like, I can't call something fun unless it's the biggest. And I am still working on that. But. But with Joy, I was able to take, like, okay, it doesn't have to be this big, big, massive, massive thing. I think we think joy and we do. We think, like, confetti cannons and people jumping out of cakes and, like, a surprise. And it has to be the biggest of deals when my daughter, who's 9, finds joy in wearing, like, her Easter dress to school because it's just got tool on it and she can spin, like, on a Wednesday, you know? [00:36:56] Speaker B: Right, that's right. Yeah. Or even how, like, I committed to no longer be a sad, beige mom and start incorporating color in my wardrobe. And just, like, the actual change that happened in my soul was wild. So I. Yeah, I just think if God's not a complicated God and he's not a one of confusion and chaos, and I think it just is going to look a lot more simple and, like, insignificant to make the most significant change. And we have to be okay with that. [00:37:23] Speaker A: And there's freedom in that, too, I think. I think even what you just said is going to give people permission to go, hey, if this little thing brings you joy and nobody else understands and they think it's silly, or they think it's frivolous or they think it's stupid or whatever, like, it doesn't matter because that is God's kindness to go, hey, I created you to find joy in these earrings, or, like, whatever it is. And great. [00:37:48] Speaker B: Like, accept that God cares about the details, too, so you best believe he's planting things in details for us to find. [00:37:55] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [00:37:57] Speaker A: Well, how about finding joy in the magnificent? Which I think this can feel silly, but it's really not because, you know, it's, again, that idea of, like, sometimes I have a hard time sitting in the joy where it. It should be the most present. Because when you look around the world and you're like, well, there's a lot of people in a lot of hard places, like, kind of like you said with your birthday party, like, how do we balance finding joy when things are going really well and great. [00:38:26] Speaker B: Yeah. And this is where. This is the difference between, like, an earthly joy and heavenly, like, divine joy is realizing that in the magnificent moments, the joy is not there because of anything we did. The joy is there simply because God loves us and he's available to us and has made himself available to us. And so therefore, it is there. It's not because we finally made it to a incredible grand gesture destination. So there's freedom in that, too, because then it's not up to Rachel to find it. It's just already there. I also think that part of the magnificent that I wanted people to know. How do I phrase this well, is that there's. Yeah. I think that so many people reserve the joy for, like, the roller coaster. And like, you're saying, like, the grand events and like, oh, I had so much fun, I belly laughed. I had the best Christmas ever. And like, well, yeah, there's joy there for sure, but we can't like hold out for that joy that we miss the joy that's on our peripheral and be like so tunnel visioned in on it. We don't even, we're like blinded to the sides. So I think that like finding joy like the simple right there in front of us joys even in the middle of book launch or a wedding season or you just, you know, you just found out you're pregnant after years of waiting or like, whatever this magnificent moment is for you is so grounding and humbling to be like, joy's not just here, it was there and before this and it's there after this, waiting for me. Yeah. God inhabits the praise of his people. And so I think like when we realize that we're praising him and not praising where we are or who we are or how we got there, we're just, we're just praising him like, he is so much more for me in my eyes, on display to be like, oh, it was him all along. So I think that it also just like finding joy in the magnificent grounds us to not be so addicted to the magnificent and hold out for the magnificent and realize that it wasn't up to us to actually pull it off in the first place. [00:40:29] Speaker C: Yeah, that's good. [00:40:32] Speaker A: That's good. And it is, they're all, they're all tied together, right? The messy, the mundane, the magnificent. It's like even as we're in one season, it's thinking about a past season or a future season that kind of helps us to stay grounded in whichever one we're in. [00:40:46] Speaker B: Such is life. Like, if you're not there, you'll be there tomorrow, or you'll be there in a week or a month, or you were there yesterday. [00:40:53] Speaker A: Yes. [00:40:53] Speaker B: These are just the components of this, this earthly human existence we live. Trying to hold out for something bigger and better. [00:41:00] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:41:01] Speaker A: Well, I want to ask you, before I ask you the last question, I want to see one more question about your title of your book, which is to love your life even when you don't like it all the time. I think there's probably people that are like, well, you can't say that you don't like your life because that means that you're ungrateful or that means that you're like, being disrespectful to God if you tell him, like, hey, I don't like this thing that you gave me or this person that you gave, you gave me. So just speak to that a little bit. Like, do you think it's okay to love your life and to say, like, I don't like this thing that's happening. [00:41:34] Speaker B: Right now a hundred percent. [00:41:37] Speaker C: Yeah, me too. [00:41:38] Speaker B: I think it's honoring our humanity and also honoring a God who knows that this is really tough for us. [00:41:49] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:41:51] Speaker B: And sent his son to get low for us. [00:41:53] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:41:54] Speaker B: And to experience this on the deepest, simplest, hardest level for us. I also am like, we have to get real with God and tell him that we don't live like it. Because he already knows. Right. [00:42:11] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:42:12] Speaker B: I mean, like, it's not a secret. Once we, like, it's not going to catch him by surprise. And also, like, if you're always comfortable, do you need a comforter? So I think that, like, there's also this level of having to say, there's gotta be more. Like, I. I don't like it. I don't like it. He's like, good, because it's freaking broken. [00:42:32] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:42:33] Speaker A: I would be wild if you did. [00:42:34] Speaker B: And so, like, how do we, like, lean in and actually live a life that's delightful and on display and evidence of something greater if we don't first say, like, this is really messed up, but I'm gonna be on the hunt for some furthermore. So that other people don't call us fake. [00:42:50] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:42:50] Speaker B: And that we're, like, denying reality. We're like, oh, no, I'm in tune with reality. But I just know that there's more than reality here. And so again, it's the holding both. And there is such a way to love your life even when you don't like it. And in fact, I would say all of us don't like a part of our life. It's just time to get honest about it. [00:43:08] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [00:43:10] Speaker A: Well. And it goes back to even what you were talking about at the beginning of the confession and with the trusted people in your life. Like, yeah, if we. If we can't fool other people, like, there's no way we're gonna fool God who, like, knows our thoughts and even knows the things that we can't find words for. So for that's us to then show up and be like, hey, so, like, this is pretty chill. Like, come on, let's practice being vulnerable and honest with God. Like, if we want to move forward, we have to be honest with where we actually are right now. [00:43:43] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:43:43] Speaker B: I. So the other day, a few Sundays ago, there was a woman who was Sitting. Not even in the back. Like, she was kind of in the middle. [00:43:55] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:43:55] Speaker B: And was, like, really, like, upset before service. And there was women that loved her that were around her or whatever. And, like, it was so touching to me that she didn't feel like she had to stand outside the sanctuary or fix it or grab a tissue or control her tears before she sat down. It was also moving that there are other women that, like, were surrounding her, that were helping her process and move through the tears and the feelings. And I also think that it was precious to me that she showed up to church anyways. Like, she knew that if she needed to be anywhere in those feelings, it was where she was. [00:44:33] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:44:33] Speaker B: And I think that, like, that is what I'm talking about, where, like, you are in pursuit of joy even when you don't feel like it. You are the woman that chooses to sit down where you know she needs to be, even though you don't look the part. Quote. [00:44:47] Speaker C: Right. [00:44:48] Speaker B: And, like, setting an example for the other women that might be in that sanctuary for the first time. That, like, I'm welcome here, too. [00:44:54] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:44:55] Speaker B: And, like, I can bring it here. [00:44:56] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:44:57] Speaker B: And that's it. Like, I'm not asking you to fake it or to suck it up, buttercup. Or I'm not, like I said in the book, I'm not trying to bippity boppity boop, fix your situation. Like, that's. That's beside the point. The point is that I can't fix your situation. It is really hard, and I recognize that. But it's not the end of the story. And we've been told that and have countless reminders throughout scripture time and time again. This is not the end. This is not the end. God will come again. And, like, over and over. So, like, the same is true for us. We just have to, like, actually, again, get good at reminding our brain that is just so tired and fickle like, that. That's the truth, you know? [00:45:34] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:45:36] Speaker A: Well, because the podcast is called Becoming Church, this is the last question that I ask everyone. How can the people listening become the church to the people around them? [00:45:45] Speaker B: Oh, I'm just gonna say it again. Like, go and find the joy that is right in front of you. [00:45:51] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:45:52] Speaker B: And, like, becoming the church is seeing all the little seeds that God has planted in our life for us uniquely to enjoy. Just because he's good. [00:46:03] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:46:04] Speaker B: Just because he's good and he is who he says he is, and it's not up to us. And so I'd say do that. Like, become the church by finding, by finding the joy and getting good at joy so that then you can model and teach and love people beyond even where you're at in life too. [00:46:21] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:46:21] Speaker A: And then we can help other people to see those little joy seeds that are in their lives. I think maybe that's the key that people are missing. It's like if you want to help other people open their eyes to where God is moving in their lives, we have to know how to do it in our own first so we know what we're talking about. [00:46:37] Speaker B: So show em it's for real, guys. Show em it's possible. [00:46:41] Speaker A: Yes. Thank you for being here. I'm gonna link up the book. It's a little bit more time for people to pre order it before it is like live and out in the world. We're so excited for you. [00:46:52] Speaker B: I will say this too. I feel like you, you know this just because you're in the author world. But for our friends that are listening, like, if you plan on buying the book, the best way to love an author is to buy it before number one. You save money kind of that way because if it goes on sale between the time you buy it and time it gets shipped, you get the lowest price. That's fun girl math. Just figured that one out. [00:47:11] Speaker A: Girl math. [00:47:12] Speaker B: But also you get some fun goodies. And that is, that's just the way that the publishing world works. So I'm like, can you do me a favor? [00:47:22] Speaker C: Yes. [00:47:23] Speaker B: It's like telling people you're coming to a wedding. You got an rsvp. [00:47:26] Speaker C: So. [00:47:27] Speaker A: Yes, that's it. [00:47:27] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:47:28] Speaker A: And you said they get goodies if they order it before it comes out. [00:47:32] Speaker B: Yes, yes. You can go to rachelautry.com book. That's Rachel a w t R-E-Y.com book. And we have all the information for how to actually get goods. We've got some fun giveaways going on. You can listen to the first two chapters of the audiobook and it just like lots of fun things. So if you're like, oh, I can't wait. I'm like, you don't have to. Just go ahead and pre order the. [00:47:52] Speaker A: Bonus dress and get party favors while you're at it. I mean, come on. [00:47:56] Speaker B: That's right. [00:47:56] Speaker A: And get some party favors for showing up. [00:47:58] Speaker B: Thank you. [00:48:04] Speaker A: You are okay. Where you are in life is okay. The way you feel and what you think and the things that you wish were different are all okay. God is not surprised or disappointed by your reaction to any of it. Which means you can go ahead and be honest with Him. I promise you will not get struck by lightning by telling God the things that you're thinking and feeling because he really does already know. Seeing God in unexpected places is one of the underlying themes of this podcast. So maybe go back and listen to some other episodes so that you can start to begin to see God in places that you maybe didn't think he existed. My prayer for you that week is that your eye will catch on something small that makes you smile or helps you breathe and that you'll believe that God is in that small joy showing up just for you because he loves you enough to come down and be present in the details. Thanks for listening and sharing and posting about this show. I would love for you to share this episode specifically with someone who could use a little help finding joy in their lives right now. Until next time, keep becoming the church so the people around you.