Kristina Hart: Humor that Leads to Change

[00:00:10] Speaker A: Welcome to Becoming Church, the podcast where we discuss how the message and movement of Jesus is not just about becoming Christians, but about becoming the church. I'm your host, Kristin Mockler Young, and my guest today is Christina Hart. Christina is one of my favorite voices and has been for the last few years on social media. She speaks to really important and relevant things with just enough humor to help you remember to breathe and not get overwhelmed by it all. Like me and many of you, she's a super Christian kid from the 90s who's going to talk about what she's held onto and what she's grown out of, especially when it comes to dating as a Christian. Christina Hart, welcome to the Becoming Church podcast. [00:00:54] Speaker B: Thank you for having me. [00:00:56] Speaker A: We were just chatting, you know, before recording. It's like we feel like we already know each other, but this is literally the first conversation we've ever had. [00:01:02] Speaker B: I know it's always funny when. With, like, Internet friends, because there are people that I've known for years over the Internet, and when we meet in person, I'm like, wait, this is so weird. I feel like I've known you for years and years. Yes. [00:01:14] Speaker A: Well, even when I was prepping our episode, I usually. I have, like, a roughly set number of questions that I sent to my guests. And with you, I was like, here's a couple. I feel like we just got it. [00:01:23] Speaker B: Like, it's gonna be great. Yeah, great. [00:01:27] Speaker A: Well, for people that may not know you, I know one of your, you know, you're. You're famous or infamous. I don't know. Or coining the phrase I'm a love your neighbor Christian, not a storm. The capital kind, we're about over here. And so I wanted to let people get to know you a little bit, kind of based off of that. So we're going to do a quick Q and A. [00:01:50] Speaker B: Okay. [00:01:50] Speaker A: So people can get to know you. So. So, you know, we were already kind of going like, love your neighbor Christian, not a storm, the capitol kind. So you're going to have to pick, like, an either or. [00:01:58] Speaker B: Okay. [00:01:59] Speaker A: So is it a what would Jesus do bracelet or a Jesus is my homeboy tea? [00:02:04] Speaker B: What would Jesus. Wait, hold on. [00:02:08] Speaker A: Oh, you. You have it right there. [00:02:11] Speaker B: There you go. I found it in a vintage store, and I was like, I need this immediately. And then, you know, it's so funny as I was wearing it, and then one day I was wearing my shirt that I'm a love your neighbor nonstrom, and I'm like, this is so intense. Like, I feel I'm like, this is a lot of Christianity going on. And then when I just wear the bracelet, I'm like, people probably don't know what side of the aisle I'm on, you know? Like, it's not. It's like something now you have to think about. [00:02:36] Speaker A: So it's funny, which is wild. I love that you were just channeling all your 90s vibes with, like, I'm gonna do a shirt and a bracelet at the same time. [00:02:44] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. [00:02:46] Speaker A: Okay, next one. A lent fast or whole 30? [00:02:50] Speaker B: A lent fast, because I can choose how minimal I want to go. [00:02:55] Speaker A: Exactly what I was thinking. I'm like. Because I have control over what that actually. [00:02:57] Speaker B: Right, Exactly. [00:02:59] Speaker A: Okay. Altar call or Hell House? [00:03:01] Speaker B: Oh, altar call. Because hell house. I feel like I still have, like, trauma from it. Yeah. [00:03:12] Speaker A: Did you go to those when you were. When you were young? [00:03:14] Speaker B: Yeah. I remember we went to. When we would have summer camp, we'd go to a Christian camp, and we definitely had that. But altar call. I've given my life to Jesus, like, 57 times. You know, like, any time they were like, anyone want to give their up? I'm like, I just want to make sure we have an understanding, you know? [00:03:30] Speaker A: I remember my boyfriend in high school once was like, you. He was a couple years older than me, and he was like, hey, you don't have to do this. And I'm crying, and I'm like, but what if I do? Like, what if I want to make sure God knows? I know. Same like, the 900th time, but, like. [00:03:46] Speaker B: Want to make sure I'm saved. [00:03:49] Speaker A: Okay. You have a prayer request. Are you going group text prayer or vaguely throwing something out on social media? [00:03:57] Speaker B: I think definitely group text, because I've done the thing where I've thrown things on social media, and I'm like, you know what? You do not want people's opinions. [00:04:06] Speaker A: Yes. [00:04:07] Speaker B: On, like, real life things. [00:04:09] Speaker A: Yes. Fair. All right. Veggie Tales or DC Talk? [00:04:13] Speaker B: Veggie Tales. Just big fan. I. I was Larry the Cucumber. I remember in youth group stuck with me, you know? [00:04:21] Speaker A: What do you mean you were Larry the Cucumber? [00:04:23] Speaker B: Well, I had to dress up, and I don't know why they gave me Larry the Cucumber. First of all, I'm short, and I'm a woman, so. But I think they needed someone, and so I literally dressed up as Larry the Cucumber and claim to fame. [00:04:36] Speaker A: That's awesome. That's. I know. I'm like. That was, like, childhood, and then, like, youth group. For me, those two dynamics Veggie and DC talk. I definitely had an era of each. [00:04:44] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, I feel like most people would say DC talk. Like, I remember like, Jesus freak. That was DC talk, wasn't it? Yeah. [00:04:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:51] Speaker B: That was like. Yeah. All of us claiming that we're Christian. [00:04:55] Speaker A: Right. [00:04:56] Speaker B: Bold. Right. [00:04:57] Speaker A: We're so bold. [00:04:58] Speaker B: Bold in our faith at 12. [00:05:02] Speaker A: Okay. A couple more short term mission trip or Enneagram conference? [00:05:07] Speaker B: Well, I have to say I've done a lot of short term mission trip. I was in Ywam Youth with a mission. So. Yeah. Okay. Huh. So we did a lot of those, so probably that. Yeah. [00:05:17] Speaker A: Okay. Are you an Enneagram person? [00:05:20] Speaker B: I am. I'm not like, as extensive as other people are, but when I've done it, I've gotten a nine wing eight, which is very funny because I'm like, I'm not bipolar, but I just. I feel like that's kind of, you know, it's like Peacekeeper. But then, like, if I have something to say, I gotta say it, you know? [00:05:36] Speaker A: Yeah. That's so funny because I. We have a relatively new staff person and. And I oversee him. And so I've been really trying to figure out his Enneagram. And it's also a nine wing eight. And I'm like, really dynamic. Is so unique. [00:05:50] Speaker B: It's stressful as a personality. Yeah. [00:05:56] Speaker A: Okay, last one for our Q and A. Are you back row of the youth group or are you upfront leading the motions to Lord, I lift your name on high. [00:06:06] Speaker B: I am back row. Unless I want the attention on me. Then I'll go to the front and make a scene for sure. I think. I think I go. That's the nine wing eight. That's the nine. [00:06:18] Speaker A: I want it when I want it. [00:06:19] Speaker B: And when I don't, I don't. [00:06:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:06:21] Speaker B: 100. [00:06:23] Speaker A: I love it. Well, thank you for playing my little game. [00:06:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:27] Speaker A: Just let people get to know you a little bit more. Is there anything else that you want us to know about who you are or kind of what you're doing right now before we really jump in? No. [00:06:37] Speaker B: I started off on the Internet as a dating a Christian dating blogger about 10 years ago with a blog called the DTR blog. And that was like my little niche existence that kind of like blew up. And at the time I, like, had nothing. Like I had. I was living with my dad, no job. Like what? My mom had died, so I had panic attacks. Anyway, so I started this blog. And so that's the evolution, which I'm sure we'll get into of how I ended up where I am now, which is very different, but still. Still a little bit the same, but just. Yeah, different. [00:07:11] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah, we will. We will get into all of the dating stuff in a minute before we do that, though. So back to this shirt that you have. I'm a love your neighbor, Christian. The capital kind. Right. Have you always been active in speaking out about politics? Because this is obviously, it's a political statement, right? Like, have you always been active in politics or did you just kind of fall into it? [00:07:31] Speaker B: You know, I. I have a little bit different background where, you know, I'm from an immigrant family. My family's Iranian, so they're from Iran. And so Persian is also another way you can say. It's like a more. I'm like. That's a more fluffier way to say it. Okay, yes, they're from Iran. And, you know, so I was never, like, conservative. I, you know, we voted. I voted for Obama. Like, I, you know, that was just. Because as an immigrant, you just have a different. My parents had a different outlook on things, but, you know, so I wasn't political in the sense of, like, speaking out the way I am now, but I was always interested in politics. But when I became a dating blogger, you know, I was just writing on the Internet, never expected it to blow up. I would talk about, like, dating mental health in the church. And, um. But, like, in 2016, I didn't vote for Trump, and I came out against Trump and from, you know, the get go, and people had a huge problem with that. And I had no idea that the evangelical church, like, that people had a problem. Like, I just thought. Everybody thought, like, me. And so then the evolution of that, I became, quote, unquote, this political person. Just the nature of, like, my interest, but also not realizing people thought entirely different, you know, uh, so that's kind of how that started. [00:08:55] Speaker A: So you have been. See, I feel like I fell into it recently. Um, just a couple episodes ago, I put out a full episode on Christian nationalism and actually talked about how I did vote for Trump in 2016. And that was kind of one of my, like, turning point moments where I was like, what am I doing? And I've been complicit in all this stuff without realizing it for so long. [00:09:20] Speaker B: But. [00:09:20] Speaker A: So you've really been doing this work kind of for years? [00:09:24] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I guess just secretly I was undercover. So a part of it is, you know, I never told people I was Persian or in person. I would. But, like, on the Internet, I was Christina Hart. My last name is actually a long Persian last name, but heart is way easier to go by, and that was like an easier pen name. So I started going by that. And. And so people just thought I was white. And I was like, this is great, because it's just, I don't know, easier existence. Right. And I think I didn't really talk much about politics until I started to see how strongly the narrative was, you know, being pushed on people of what you should think, what you should believe when it comes to politics if you're a Christian. And I just was like, wait, what? Like. Cause I had never thought those things. I had struggled with other viewpoints, I think, in church or evangelicalism that, you know, I was told you have to believe this way about gay people or things like that. Right. But I never politically aligned with any of that. It's just I was too scared to vocalize what I thought, so I just kind of abided by what I thought I should. But until I came out against Trump and I wrote a blog post about it and I lost. I think it was like. I think I lost like 8,000 followers in two weeks. And I was like, oh, yeah. I was like, oh. And I don't have a ton, you know, Like, I. I had 30,000 then. I have. I have it now. So I've gained at least 8,000 people that are of the same. More similar mindset. But it was a. It was a big surprise to me, you know, and then that just made me more interested in having these dialogues, ensuring that people hear other perspectives and just understanding, hey, like, you were raised in this environment. This is what was told to you. Like, you now think differently. Like, what is that? What did your path look like? Because mine was very different, you know? [00:11:16] Speaker A: Yeah. Did you have a turning point moment either then or more recently where you. Because what I love about what you do and I think what maybe attracted us to each other is like, trying to talk about this all but doing it through the lens of, you know, Jesus, like, not just like, hey, Christianity and the church and what we've been taught, but, like, actually, what does Jesus say and what does the gospel tell us to live out? Did you have kind of this turning point moment either then or now, where you were like, oh, I have to begin showing people, like, the error of their ways, kind of. [00:11:48] Speaker B: I remember I was in la, and it was during COVID and there's a kind of homeless population in downtown LA called Skid Row. And I remember a guy named Sean Foyt. He's A worship leader with Bethel. And I was very much of the Bethel crew. I was very much in charismatic. My mom was a convert to Charismatic Christianity. So, like, that was very much, like, what I aligned with. And I remember during COVID he wanted to lead a worship thing on skid row. And, you know, they have a whole. They have a lot of leaders on skid row. They have, like, a homeless nonprofits, like, to help feed and serve the people. They have church there. Like, there's. It's a. It's an actual community. Right. Even if they're homeless, it's community. And we all know that being in la. And. But he went against all the COVID kind of stipulations and stuff, which, sure, we can all have different views. Like, I totally get that. But he went against that, went in and with all of his people, and they start going and like, kind of praying. Praying for people and going up to them and. And the leaders or like, the people in the residential community were like, please don't. Like, please don't do that. Like, you know. You know, people here are really vulnerable, and honestly, they're just really hungry. Like, if you. You know what I mean? Like. [00:13:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:13:12] Speaker B: And that's your actual needs. Exactly. And that's when I was like, you know, Jesus cared about. About the practicalities of people's lives. And that's something I have always felt with church, with, like, mental health, even with dating. And like, you know, I'm really passionate about helping people's practicalities and, like, the things that they need in life. And I feel like I. I really love churches that invest in. In that and that do that. And I felt like that was lacking for me in different environments. And that was kind of like a point where I was like, okay, we. We need to really do better. Um, and that's when I became a little more unapologetic, I guess. [00:13:50] Speaker A: Yeah, well, and you do it all with humor, which is. [00:13:54] Speaker B: So try. [00:13:57] Speaker A: That is a. That is a true gift. Because I think sometimes people try to be funny or even. Sometimes people who are funny don't know how to pair it with, like, something that's serious and something that really matters. And so, yeah, I followed you for years. [00:14:10] Speaker B: Really? Yes. Oh, my God. I didn't know that. [00:14:12] Speaker A: I thought you, like, just edgy Christina Heart or whatever. [00:14:15] Speaker B: Oh, my God, how funny. I know, I do. I kind of miss that now. But I'm like, I think it was a little more seriously now. [00:14:21] Speaker A: Yeah, I was like, this girl is snarky and she's funny, but Also, like, she's making some really valid points. [00:14:28] Speaker B: Oh, thank you. Thank you. Yeah, about that. [00:14:31] Speaker A: Like, how do you find. [00:14:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:14:34] Speaker A: Because it's not that these things are funny, right? But humor is a. Is a door to conversation. How do you, like, pair those things together? [00:14:41] Speaker B: Well, I think it was a lot easier when I was just, like, a dainty little dating blogger because I would make these, like, little Christian jokes that was so relatable for everyone. And then as I started to expand and want to have, like, deeper conversations or cared about other things, you know, I wanted to try to find ways to bring humor into that, because I do think it breaks down barriers, and you can't help it if you laugh. And if you do laugh at something, you're like, oh, wait a minute. Like, it's a lot harder to hate. Hate someone, you know, if you're laughing. And I thought, oh, okay, maybe this can be a way that I can bring conversation. I will say, though, like, about two years ago, I think I got really jaded and tired because I feel like things just got more and more intense and then kind of harder to find the humor in it. And so I think I took a step back a little bit, and then I got my bearings and kind of, like, where I was at, taken care of, and then I jumped back in, and now I feel good. And it is certainly hard, but I. I just think it's needed. And even if it's a challenge, I would like to still challenge myself to try to do that, because I do think it helps. You know, I've heard time and time again, like, someone in my DMs, and they're like, hey, I don't. I don't agree with a lot of what you said, but I appreciate it, and it makes me think. And I'm like, great. You know? Like, I love that, you know? Yeah, yeah. [00:16:03] Speaker A: Goal accomplished. That's the thing. [00:16:05] Speaker B: And sometimes it's accidentally, like, the shirt. My friend and I were having a conversation about dating and what to put on the dating app so that we attract men that, like, have the same kind of mindset we do. And, you know, because I'm like, what's the point of, like, going out with someone if, you know, you're on two ends of the spectrum? It's not gonna work, right? Like, if someone's, you know, which is fine, but I just, you know, you don't want to waste your time. So she actually. I was like, oh, I'm a love your neighbor Christian. Not that kind of Christian. And then she was like, I'm a love your neighbor Christian, not a storm in the capitol Christian. And her name is Kenda. And so we joined together. We're like, you know what? Like, this is it. This is what we're going to do. And so we put it on our dating apps. And then to this day, I see it on other people's on, like, guys profiles. And I'm like, that is so funny. Should I tell them, like, hey, it originated with us, you know. [00:16:55] Speaker A: That'S awesome. I'm gonna link up your shirt so people know because like anything else that is witty and great and successful, then, like, other creators take it and rip it off and whatever. So your shirt is available in lots of places, but we will link up. [00:17:09] Speaker B: It is. Thank you. Thanks so much. Yes. [00:17:13] Speaker A: All right, well, talking about dating, I'm sure your true love waits ring is still just as shocking. [00:17:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:20] Speaker A: But you are a successful, successful, established woman living out your calling, who just happens to be single. Do you feel pressure? Do you feel pressure to like, date or get married? Or is that kind of, you know, old school way of thinking? [00:17:36] Speaker B: You know, I did. I. All I wanted was to be married. All I wanted was to marry a Christian guy and be like the Christian power couple. That was like my. I would have never said that out loud, but that's what I'm. You know, we're on stage at church and we're just like, funny and we're like leaders. And that's, you know, what I really wanted. And I think that that was kind of, you know, growing up, that was a little bit imposed on us of a narrative that that's like the dream marriage and the dream of what you want in life. And so I think the older I got realizing, hey, like, I don't think that this fantasy is necessarily a reality. And I don't even know if I want that. When I started to really, I guess you deconstruct, like, you know, my place in evangelical evangelicalism or the Western church. Like, if I just. When I started to think about my place that in like, my belief system, naturally the dating deconstruction happened too, I guess you could say. So I. I really looked into, like, oh, what do I actually think and believe? And I was so strongly impacted by purity culture that to this day, um, you know, I still struggle with certain thoughts and beliefs of like, what's okay or what's not? You know, it's just really deep in you. Um, and. But now I can say that what I thought was my dream is probably my nightmare now. And I'M very, like, a lot more confident in who I am. I don't feel that pressure anymore. I think, like, if I want it, I can have it. And when I find the right person, great. But I genuinely don't feel pressure or, like, this gnawing, like, oh, I want this so badly. I actually don't feel that. And I think sometimes people think there's something wrong with me, and I'm like, no. Like, I know a lot of women my age who are of the similar background and where we're at, and they. A lot of us think like this, you know, And I do think men also. It's just kind of like we're happy and we're allowed to be happy and not just like, your identity isn't in, like, hey, Christina, are you dating anyone? Or which? You can ask me, but I mean, like, that. That doesn't have to be the sole question that is asked of a woman at my age, you know? [00:19:55] Speaker A: Yes. Do you think it's because we still assign value to people based on their marital status? Like, do you think that's where the pressure comes from? [00:20:02] Speaker B: I think so. I think, you know, beyond church, I think society has done that. And I think historically, you know, I just read a book, and it was about FDR Secretary of Labor Francis Perkins. And she was 30, I think, when she met someone. But, like, this was back in, like, 1920s, and she was talking about that pressure and, like, people and just reading that perspective, it's like women have had. Have had to fight a lot to get to where they are now, where we just genuinely can live our lives. And I think there's a lot of narratives that were placed on us. And so there's a lot of unraveling that we have to do in different capacities. [00:20:44] Speaker A: What for the person that's listening. Because I know we have single people listening. I was gonna say women, but really single people listening. Some of them really are still trying to find that person. Like, that's a desire that they have. Some of them, I think, maybe wanna get more to the place where you're at, where they're like, if it happens, it happens, but if it doesn't, like, I'm still cool with that. I know it's like two different audiences. Like, what would you say to each of those? [00:21:10] Speaker B: Yeah, I think if you want it, I completely understand and I empathize. Because it is really hard to date right now. I think genuinely, you know, if you look at the state of what the. The politically right, like, the way. The way we're so divided. That also plays into dating because if you go on a dating app, you're going to find people that say such insane things and then you're going to find good guys. But on top of that, then you also have the layers of dating that also kind of suck in, you know, like where you could get ghosted or what, you know, different things like that. But I will say, like, I know people that have consistently met someone in, in the most non traditional or unexpected ways. And so I think if you want it, like people always say, put yourself out there, but also just have fun. Like if you don't want to be on the dating apps, go out and just have fun with your friends. And, and that's a way to meet people or go do things that you find like chat GPT this funny because my friend was like, ask chatgpt what they it thinks that you should do. And it was like, you should, it should, you should go to like an activist meetup because the other guy, a guy there will probably be interested in what you like. And I'm like, okay, I mean, that's a great idea. You know, so that's kind of what I would say if you're, you know, I get, I get it. And I know it's like we've been told, hey, there's one person for you, like pray about it or, or, you know, either seek it or be content or, you know, people, it's just was we're giving so much advice and it's like actually just do what you enjoy and probably you'll meet someone along the way, you know, or, or a few people. You never know. Yeah, yeah. And then for the other group, you know, I, I think like, it's okay to be content and happy where you're at and just go with life. And I think for me, as someone especially from charismatic Protestant Christianity background, it was like we would pray knowing the end. You would pray like believing for the end and like believing that. And I had to rewire my brain completely. Not saying that that doesn't happen or that's not how you should, but to just kind of accept the journey for me and not have expectations of the end was an entire rewiring, but also a definite freedom in the way I live my life. [00:23:33] Speaker A: So yeah, he was gonna say, what was it? Because you mentioned like you're, you kind of relooked at dating while you were deconstructing kind of at the same time. What was it? I mean, maybe like partially that prayer thing, right? Just the expectation of God has This thing for you that's always been promised or God really has, like, this one specific person on the planet that you will have to find at some point. [00:23:57] Speaker B: Point. Right. Like, oh, my God, the pressure. Yeah. [00:24:00] Speaker A: Hey, guys, maybe that's not a thing, actually. Okay, but was there something in your deconstruction that maybe isn't about dating, but, like, related to dating? You can apply to other things where you're like, oh, my gosh. This kind of opened my eyes to either who you are as a person or how you see other people or something like that. [00:24:19] Speaker B: I think, like, I always associated mystery with the Holy Spirit. Spirit and that being someone I. I know that is in me, which I still believe. But I. I really held on to, like, the promises of God. And I think in deconstructing, I learned that there's other theologies and other ways of believing in how the Holy Spirit it, you know, connects with yours, in relationship with you, or, you know, different things. And. And I just think in dating, it's the same thing where I believed. I just believe God was going to tell me ahead of time genuinely who my husband was. Or, like, I would meet someone and I would know, or I would date someone, and within a month I would have God tell me. Like, I just was very much of that thinking. And I think it's like, now I'm like, oh, he may not tell you anything because it's about, you know, I'm more interested now. And, like, if I feel safe with this person, what is the character of this person? Like, how do they treat people? Like, Rather than, did God tell me this is my husband? Yeah. You know? Yeah. [00:25:33] Speaker A: That's so good. And that really is a purity culture thing, too. I was rooted in that in a different way. I don't think where I expected God to, like, tell me and confirm, but it was one of those. I had the phrase in the back of my mind, right? Like, you don't date them unless you could potentially marry them. And I didn't date a lot of people. So therefore, every single person I dated, I thought I was going to marry Christina. I'm talking about from, like, the seventh grade. [00:26:03] Speaker B: No, I know. Me too. Like, Hanson. I was like, I'm gonna marry Hanson or I'm gonna marry this Backstreet Boy. Like, God, you know, you're just like, oh, my God, I was crazy. If anyone read my journals, they'd be like, what a nut job. [00:26:15] Speaker A: Yes, I know. Well, and we. It's so toxic, right? Like, we thought we were doing the right thing. We Thought we were being good Christians, but I'm like, I could have gotten myself into such dangerous situations, because really what I was saying was, if this person finds me valuable, if this person finds me worthy of their time or taking me out to, like, dinner, then I'm ready to say, yes, I will marry you. [00:26:42] Speaker B: Like, it's so true. [00:26:43] Speaker A: What? [00:26:43] Speaker B: It's. It's crazy. It's so true, but it feels so normal. And we're told it's normal. Like, when I was in Ywam. Youth with a mission, I was in England, and I. This guy who was on the leadership team, he took, like, a liking to me. And in ywam, you're not allowed to date during your dts, which is discipleship training school. This may sound all a lot or people may understand this because they may have been. I don't know. You're honest. But anyway, so he ended up wanting to date me. So we had to go to the leadership team, and they had to pray for us and approve us dating. So then when they did approve us dating, it was genuinely like, I got. I had gotten engaged. Like, people were acting like I was going to marry this guy. And then he. After I went to the Philippines, I think, and I came back, and then he was like, we. I. We can't hang out because I need to pray and ask God if you're my wife, and I need him to give me a sign. And. And. And, like, this is the leadership, right? So this is the people who are leading the. The ba. They're leading this for younger people. And anyway, so I was like, yeah, okay, like, thinking this is the right way. And he prayed. We didn't hang out for two weeks, which is so weird. And he prayed. And then, of course, God didn't give him a sign. And I was devastated. And we broke up, and it was this whole thing. But now I look back and I'm like, what? Yeah, you know, you're like, oh, my gosh. Like, poor little Christina. Like, this is not the way, you know? So I. Yeah, toxic is definitely a word that can be used for it. [00:28:18] Speaker A: Yeah, I need to find my college journals and just burn them. [00:28:22] Speaker B: I know. [00:28:22] Speaker A: Or before. I know, because it is literally, like, how narrow focused was. I literally. I mean, pages and pages of like, is he gonna propose to me now? Can you just make him propose to me now? Can you just make. [00:28:36] Speaker B: Yes. Can you do this? Can you just give me a sign? [00:28:38] Speaker A: Yeah, I know that he wants it. Yeah, we talked about it. But, like, why isn't it happening? And Now, Holy mole. Like, you know, sliding doors moment. My life could have gone any which way. [00:28:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:28:49] Speaker A: Sometimes I look at him on social media and I'm like, oh, God kind of saved me. Like, I'm sure he's a great person, but he's a very different Life than the 100%. [00:28:58] Speaker B: And I'm like, yeah, I used to be like. I used to be like, can you make him call me and that'll be a sign that I'm supposed to be with him. And of course, the guy would call random, like, just because that's what you do when you're dating. And I'd be like, oh, my God, I'm going to marry this guy. [00:29:18] Speaker A: I love it. We do. We look for signs. And like, the craziest. Not just for dating, but, like, in the craziest things places, like God is this little. I don't know, magician's not the right word. But it's like he's waiting, holding this little, like, you know, McDonald's, what are they called? Happy Meal. And he's like, if you open it, then you get the prize, but if you don't open it, I guess I'll just hold on to it for forever, huh? [00:29:40] Speaker B: Exactly. Yep. It's very true. And I think, like, in my deconstruction, like, I still believe God shows you things where you can tap that, you know, relationship. But I don't live my life thinking about it every day, expecting it, looking for. I kind of just allow life to happen or take. Accept life on life's terms, you know, and that's a. Was a big lesson for me. [00:30:03] Speaker A: Yes. Well, I've been thinking and writing a lot, actually, about certainty and how we based our faith on certainty. And really, this is kind of the same thing. Right. It was like the certainty of knowing there is someone for us. God is going to make it clear all of this stuff when really you, like, even. Even if you're not dating to marry, you can just have so much better experiences. Like you said, to have fun and meet people and not go out and be like, no. I'm so focused on finding this one right person. [00:30:31] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Just letting life happen and just meeting people and finding out what you like. Like, I never asked myself, like, what do I want in someone? What do I like in someone? And now I realize I'm like, I do not want somebody who does that or things like that, you know, like, whatever. I never thought about that. I just thought about who they are in their faith with Jesus. And that is the determining factor. Right. Like, I never thought about anything else. And now I'll go out with a guy and I'll be like, he's great. But I don't. I don't know, like, I felt a little like maybe he's a little emotionally unavailable or maybe. And now I'm like, you know, if you show any kind of, like, unsafe things or what. I'm like, entirely not interested. But before, I didn't have that awareness. I'd be like, nobody loves Jesus. You know, whatever it was, I'm so. [00:31:19] Speaker A: Glad you said that, because I. I know, at least for me, I think it was connected to, like, I was always told that pride was wrong. And so, like, being happy was wrong. And what that meant was, like, if I even thought about myself for a second, I was sinning. [00:31:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:33] Speaker A: That is too. Again, how people get into dangerous relationships. Yeah, I never thought about do. It's Julia Roberts, right? And like, how she likes her eggs and Runaway Bride. [00:31:42] Speaker B: Oh, yes. Oh, my God, I love that movie. Yeah, you change it. You just. More exactly like, I. I'll just morph into whatever he needs me to be. Or it's like, what. It's not about what I want. It's about what God wants. And you're just. And like, these are all just. I'm sure there's truth in there, but we just skew it to a way that is unbelievable and so unhealthy for us. And I had to, more than anything, learn about expressing my feelings. Emotional wholeness, wellness, like, all of that, you know, and that was. And that my feelings are not bad and that my feeling, you know, I think I was also taught, like, your feelings are bad, so just negate them. Don't listen to them. Listen to what God is saying. And then you're like, I don't know how to express anything. So then of course you're not. Of course I'm single because I haven't been able to learn how to express myself or what I'm feeling. So I think that that journey is probably relatable to people with that experience. Experience. But I certainly felt weird or. And behind. You know, all my other friends are married or. Or, you know, children. But now I just accept myself, you know. [00:32:49] Speaker A: Yeah, well, and God wants that for you too. I think we just have to move the mind frame of, like, God wants us to have this person or be in this relationship or attain this status to like. No, God actually does want you to know how your feelings work and to understand and for you to be whole and healthy on your own. Like God actually wants that. [00:33:07] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, David was very emotional, and all he did was talk about how he felt, and I'm like, why did. Why were we taught, like, not to? You know, I feel like a lot of people in the Bible are emotional. [00:33:18] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:20] Speaker A: Well, you mentioned to me earlier that single women seem to be maybe more driven and established compared to single men. I'm sure that plays into it. Why do you think that is? [00:33:32] Speaker B: Okay. I do feel like if you are. I do feel like men are established and men are. But I. I will say I think. I think women have had to work hard to make it for themselves because no one else was gonna show up for them or help them. Like, it's kind of like you're expected to get married, but then what if that doesn't happen? Right? Like, you're on your own, and so then you have to work hard to build that life for yourself. So n. You get to my age, and it's like, we all work hard. We have dreams and passions. We want to help change the world, and you want to find someone that fits that and that counter, you know, that counterpart. And for men, I'm sure it's similar and the same. It's just that I don't. You know, there are a lot of men on dating apps that, like, you know, still live at home or, like, just don't have drive or don't have. Which is not all men at all. Like, there are certain, you know, like, if you're single and you have a job, call me. And, you know, in your audience. But that. But I. But I also think that makes it harder now for all of us our age, because we're so comfortable in our lives. And that is not a bad thing. That is a good thing. But it does make it harder to bring someone else into that for both sides. So I think naturally, you know, I do think that people will take that, skew it, and shame women and be like, you've. You chose a job over a man? And it's like, no, this is a matter of survival. Like, if I didn't have a job, where would I live? Who's gonna give me money? You know, Like, I ha. We had to do that. Or. Or people are like, well, you could get married. It's like, this is not. That's not why you get married. Like, you know, like, that's really actually. [00:35:21] Speaker A: A terrible reason to get. [00:35:22] Speaker B: It's a terrible reason. But they like normal. Yeah. You know, it's like, oh, I thought I should get married for love and for you know, and it's like these agendas that are terrible, and it's like, just let people live their lives, you know, women and men. Yeah. [00:35:38] Speaker A: Are you seeing. Just thinking about, like, the dating apps and, you know, all of that, just the trends that I'm seeing, even people talk about on social media. Are you seeing a weird uptick of, like, men looking for trad wives or that kind of, like, traditional. Has that been part of your experience at all? [00:35:57] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I certainly think, like, I don't think that there's anything wrong. Like, my viewpoint is I want women to be able to choose whatever life that they want. Right. If. That. If you want to stay, like, please. But I do think that then there's an agenda on the Internet, certainly. And working the job. I work now, I. I know that there's a lot of money that is put into pushing the trad wife narrative on the Internet. That's like, you're happier if you're at home. You're happier without a job. Like, and I think that that then has influenced culture. Like, I do think that social media has influenced culture. And there are men. Yeah. Who. Who want that. And there are men who are just normal. And they want what? You know, they may want that, but they're not weird about it. Right. Or, like, they just want. Or they do want to be with a driven woman or a woman that is content in her life. Right. Or that's what they're more interested in. But I will say there is a conservative dating app called the Right Stuff, and I created a fake profile on there. Well, I said, my name is. I've used my name, but I was like, and you have to get accepted. And so I had to be like, I love Republicans, American flag. And Jesus literally is what I said got accepted into it. Okay, okay. And these profits, when you're talking about men who want tradwives, these profiles were like, I want a homestead and a woman who's fertile. And, like, those are the words they use. And I was like, wow, this is a wild place over here. So. Yeah. [00:37:33] Speaker A: Well, I think it's kind of what you said at the beginning, too, of this question of, like, you're not against any of that. But it is. There's. There's a narrative right now that is telling people. And I think because it is connected to a certain. Certain sect of Christianity, it's very different to go on the Internet and be like, here's my opinion, or, here's what my lifestyle is, or here's what I would like to do. Versus going on the Internet or any kind of platform and taking all of those same words, but saying, and this is what God wants for everyone. [00:38:02] Speaker B: Yes, exactly. It's weaponized, right? Like, yeah, it's definitely what. And so I think it's like, well, follow the money. Right? Or follow. And you're like, what is the end goal with that? Well, I think the people who push that genuinely don't want to take away the women's right to vote. Vote. Right. Or they're like. And people, you know, people will be like, don't make everything political. And I'm like, I'm, I'm not. I can tell you looking back, like, from where we were then and to where we are now, they're, they will continue, you know, and that, that there's, and, you know, there's agendas on both sides. I'm not gonna act like there's not an agenda on the other side. There's certainly, you know, most of us are in the middle in some way, shape or form. But I think, yeah, like, if you want to stay at home and raise your children and live on a farm even, and you know what? That is amazing. Like, you should be able to do that if that's what you want. If you want to have a job and you want to work a career and that's, you know, whatever it is. But then when people come in and they say, well, God wants this for you, that is such a toxic way of trying to get you to fit into something that serves that person, not you. [00:39:14] Speaker A: Yeah. It's control. And it also sets people up for failure. Because if we say this is what God wants for everyone, besides the fact that the country can't actually run if everyone is on a farm. But what about the women who, like, we talked about, want to be married but aren't? Maybe the people that are married and want to have kids but can't, like, yeah, where does it leave everyone else? And we say, this is the prescriptive thing that makes God the happiest. [00:39:41] Speaker B: Well, they get confused. Right? They get confused with themselves. So in the sense, for instance, like, women are like, well, I, I, I'm gonna freeze my eggs so that I'm single now, but when I do find someone, and then that's demonized because it's like, well, that's not the natural way. And it's like, well, I thought you wanted me to have children. So this, you know, and then it's like, well, okay, you're married and you're having trouble conceiving while you Want to do ivf? Well, that's not a natural way. And it's like, I thought you wanted me to have children. So it's just. You cannot win with these things. And so it's just so important for you to just know what you. Your identity, know what you want, know what you believe in, and stick to that. Because, man, they will say anything. [00:40:24] Speaker A: Yes, yes. And that goes back to again, like, your identity is in Christ. Your identity isn't being a reflection of God. It's not connected to a parent or a spouse or a pastor or a leader or a position or a role or anything else. And if we don't know that first, then not just dating, everything is going to be messed up and distorted when we look through the lens of truly anything else. Yeah, preach. You preach. You mentioned being Persian American, the Afghan from Iran. [00:40:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:41:00] Speaker A: And so right now, I know there's a lot of people, I'm just gonna say, being racist and discriminatory and hateful out loud. How are you seeing that at play in dating? [00:41:13] Speaker B: Yeah, I think, you know what's funny is I think unless Iran is in the news, which is only typically in the news in America, when it comes to nuclear bombs and war, where I'm from la, and there's just like a huge Persian American culture. And I recently did a post actually making a joke about that, being like, actually Persians, you know, a lot of them were very much pressured to get PhDs. We throw huge parties where we'll feed you for eight hours, and we're just too busy doing that. Like, we are not interested in, like, war. Right. And all these people actually commented with all these beautiful stories of Iranians that they knew or met that really had that hospitable personality and stuff. And so I feel like in dating, it's funny because people either know the culture or they don't at all, based on proximity, which is totally fine. But I will say, if I say I'm from. My family's from Iran, they sometimes will try to find the. Their most connected things. So, like, they'll be like, I knew someone from Iraq. And you're like, cool. That's entirely different country, but awesome, you know? Yes, the Middle East. That is the Middle East. Or, you know, or it's like I make a joke, actually, and I'm like, you know, and then I said that to a guy and he's like, I love Aladdin. And you're like, that's great. You know, like, you know, just. I mean, that was more of a joke, but, like, you Know, it's kind of like people either know or don't know, and it's totally fine. And it's a conversation, and I'm happy to, like, introduce that, but it's hard when. When what's going on right now, like, Iranians, right, are not the Iranian government. They're actually very much against the regime, too. And. But. But based on narratives, right? Then. Then people will just see Iranian and think maybe terrorists or thing. And it's like, that's. That's. That's awful, right? Like, they're. They're not that. We're not that. So I think that can be hard. But in dating, it's more funny if I'm honest. [00:43:21] Speaker A: Okay, well, for people that are listening and they're like, oh, I did think Aladdin was from whatever, you know, with humility admit, like, I really only understand Persian Americans or Middle east or Iran, Iraq, whatever. Like, all of them, which were most white people are just lumping in as just one big. Yeah, no gluttonous, like, thing. How do you recommend that people kind of start to change their narrative? Like, what can we do? What should they read? Who should they listen to to start to be able to learn, like, what the people are actually like? [00:43:58] Speaker B: Yeah, I am happy to, like, give creator names or some wonderful women, and there's comedian, male comedians that are funny, and I'm happy to give that list. And you can maybe put their names if you want or whatever. And I think it just humanizes Persians to be exactly like you are or exactly like your audience. Like, we are. Like, I'm very similar to you. Right. The only difference in that context is my family was born in another country. And so I think it's a strength or diversity is a strength. Like, I get to know about your background and your history, and then I get to bring that my own into our friendship or whatever. Right. And so I think following creators and there are great authors. Persepolis is like a great. It's like a famous Iranian book about refugees and stuff. But, you know, there's all kinds of things like that. But ultimately, I think probably what is the most helpful is meeting someone. So I know that that can be hard. And so just you having me on your podcast actually, you know, helps. They can. They can meet me virtually, you know, I love that. [00:45:16] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, it's just. It's. It's learning and it's seeing the humanity of other people. Like, we just go back to that over and over on this podcast. Like, if you have to be able to see the humanity of other people. And if you can't, I mean, that's your roadblock. Like, yeah, forget what you've learned. Forget your biases. Like, it all comes from the way that you allow yourself to see other people. [00:45:38] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, this morning I was reading the Beatitudes. Not to be cliche, but I was like, Jesus was like, blessed are the merciful, for there'll be shown mercy. And I'm like, how did we get to this place where we think, like, empathy is toxic? Or, you know, it's like, Jesus was so clear. [00:45:55] Speaker A: Yes. [00:45:56] Speaker B: And I think if you give people a chance on. In any capacity, they'll show you the. They'll show you their humanity and. And just how similar we all are, truly. [00:46:07] Speaker A: Yeah. We just have to be willing to look at it. [00:46:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:46:11] Speaker A: Well, Christina, last question for you, because the podcast is called Becoming Church. How can the people listening become the church to the people around them? [00:46:20] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, we can all love our neighbors more. The most basic level. No, I think. I think we're in a time right now where people are scared to talk to other people or they're. It's a little bit easier for us to be segregated or distant or just stay with our people. And I think if we can make ourselves a little more vulnerable and step outside of that and try to talk to someone we normally wouldn't, or try to think or pray about someone we normally wouldn't, I think that that can be something that pushes the church forward. [00:46:56] Speaker A: Yeah, I love that vulnerability. A little bit of challenge there, but, yeah, it's not hard. And it is connected to loving your neighbor. [00:47:04] Speaker B: So not storming the capital. [00:47:07] Speaker A: Well, thank you so much for being here. [00:47:10] Speaker B: Oh, you're such a wonderful host. [00:47:12] Speaker A: Oh, thank much you so, so much. Well, we will connect again. I'll get that list of creators from you and we'll drop them in the show notes for everybody. [00:47:20] Speaker B: Awesome. Thank you, guys. Have a great day. [00:47:28] Speaker A: Does it feel like there are themes here lately? Love your neighbor. Go back to the words of Jesus. Empathy is not toxic. You're allowed to change your mind if you know other people who are living into this kind of Christianity or who might benefit from hearing this different perspective. Would you share this episode with them or another one? You can text it directly or even post about it on social media. You know, that move is more of a, like, hey, I'm just dropping this here for whoever happens to see it. If you do that, please tag me hristenmochleryoung so I can see it and know which conversations are speaking to you. Also, if there are particular topics you'd like to hear explored on this podcast, I'm always open to your suggestions as well. Like Troy Bolton taught us, we're all in this together after all. Until next time, thanks so much for listening and keep becoming the church to the people around you.